when did God say...

[Assyrian]

No but he did not create evolution, check its source. you have not quoted darwin or any other original evolutionary thinker who states theygot the theory from God or where it is grounded in scripture.

I am still waiting for you to support your claim about scientists not saying they got the theory of evolution to God shows God did not create evolution. So far all you have done is change the subject.

You are using the religion or lack of it of the scientists to attack their science. That is an ad hom argument. It doesn't work because you do accept the science of atheist like Watson and Crick. How is evolution looking to the secular world, but the structure if DNA isn't?

i would explain it to you but you would take one thing and say that is the door to allow what you believe into the mix. it is not as simple as that.

So you can't support the argument.

and if you check previous posts i do recall defining the difference between the two.

Something about building a philosophy on it? Philosophy is not science and bad philosophy can claim real fact as its basis. People use the existence of evil and suffering as a philosophical argument against God. Same with the destruction of the Amalekites. No your philosophy argument does not tell us anything about evolution being from God or not.

Using second hand out of context quotes you have not checked would get your work riped apart in the academic world

depends on who is doing the ripping and actually i knew of that quote before i read it again in that book.

I am sure you did read it before. The same out of context quote mined paragraph is quoted in load of YEC sites. The question is, when you read it before, did you just read the quote or did you read it in context?

if you are so hot and bothered by it why haven't you or glaudys posting links to the whole thing?

Hey it's a win win situation for us. Either you refuse to post the context and you show you inability on unwillingness to look up quote mine references you post, or you do post it and we all see the quote was out of context.

 

[archaeologist]

I am still waiting for you to support your claim about scientists not saying they got the theory of evolution to God shows God did not create evolution. So far all you have done is change the subject.

that sentence makes no sense whatsoever. i hvae proved it over and over and stop accusing me of what you and glaudys do all the time. you only make yourselves look foolish and too scared to deal with the reality.

So you can't support the argument.

oh, i can but it would be what Jesus said, 'casting pearls before swine'. i see what you TE's do and to tell you the truth, it is not of Christ.

The same out of context quote mined paragraph is quoted in load of YEC sites. The question is, when you read it before, did you just read the quote or did you read it in context?

it is the same old game with you all. find an excuse to discredit the quote or point to avoid the truth so you can continue in your lies.

you do this with scripture that is quoted, which says not to follow the world and you do it to anything that shows you are in error.

Hey it's a win win situation for us. Either you refuse to post the context and you show you inability on unwillingness to look up quote mine references you post, or you do post it and we all see the quote was out of context.

againyou display a lack of dealing with reality. you are the ones who complained about the quote the burden of proof was on you not me.

your inability to do so proved you could not defend your position, that you were too lazy to do any research, or post to support your empty statements. the only losers were you two.

but that is par for the course for this board. not one of you can defend your position for it is not of God, it is not true and you do it because you would rather follow the world than Him.

the Bible says: 'man loves darkness better than light.'

repent before it is too late.

 

[Kristos]

 

[Mallon]

I am still waiting for you to support your claim about scientists not saying they got the theory of evolution to God shows God did not create evolution. So far all you have done is change the subject.

He only supports his claims when he feels like it, Assyrian. I asked him some time ago to cite some references in support of his claim that evolution occurs at the level of the individual, rather than the population. He never did. In the meantime, he continues to demand that others cite their sources at his whim (and even when they do, it's never good enough). It's hypocrisy to say the least. I'm not sure why people put up with it.

 

[KokoTheGorilla2]

 

[Assyrian]

that sentence makes no sense whatsoever. i hvae proved it over and over and stop accusing me of what you and glaudys do all the time. you only make yourselves look foolish and too scared to deal with the reality.

Sorry Typo. I was referring to your claim

No but he did not create evolution, check its source. you have not quoted darwin or any other original evolutionary thinker who states theygot the theory from God or where it is grounded in scripture.

It should read:

I am still waiting for you to support your claim about scientists not saying they got the theory of evolution from God shows God did not create evolution. So far all you have done is change the subject.

oh, i can but it would be what Jesus said, 'casting pearls before swine'. i see what you TE's do and to tell you the truth, it is not of Christ.

Given your resort to an ad hom referring to me as a swine instead of giving an answer, I seriously doubt you have an answer like you claim, at least no one you think will stand up to scrutiny.

it is the same old game with you all. find an excuse to discredit the quote or point to avoid the truth so you can continue in your lies.

If you wanted to prove us all wrong, all you had to do was supply the context to the quote and show that it wasn't out of context. But you weren't able to find the context of the Barr letter and you weren't able to to do it with the Gould quote.

you do this with scripture that is quoted, which says not to follow the world and you do it to anything that shows you are in error.

Give us the reference, show how this tells us learning about science is incompatible with following God.

againyou display a lack of dealing with reality. you are the ones who complained about the quote the burden of proof was on you not me.

your inability to do so proved you could not defend your position, that you were too lazy to do any research, or post to support your empty statements. the only losers were you two.

You quoted the YEC cut and paste, you should show you understand what it means and that it is in context.

but that is par for the course for this board. not one of you can defend your position for it is not of God, it is not true and you do it because you would rather follow the world than Him.

the Bible says: 'man loves darkness better than light.'

repent before it is too late.

Act 17:10 The brothers immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea, and when they arrived they went into the Jewish synagogue. 11 Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so.
We have examined your claims, your arguments don't hold up and when you are challenged on them you refuse to back them up. We have looked at the scriptures you claim support your anti-science prejudices, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so. They don't say what you read into them either.

 

[archaeologist]

We have examined your claims, your arguments don't hold up and when you are challenged on them you refuse to back them up. We have looked at the scriptures you claim support your anti-science prejudices, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so. They don't say what you read into them either.

it is your choice but i wouldn't equate myself with those people inthat passage if i were you. i am not the one doing the reading in and that is a false accusation which you cannot prove.

your avoidance of the topic and continual shifting the attention from the post to the poster undermines any of your claims along with the fact that you cannot support any of your interpretations .

Given your resort to an ad hom referring to me as a swine instead of giving an answer, I seriously doubt you have an answer like you claim, at least no one you think will stand up to scrutiny.

labeling it doesn't make it so. it wasn't an attack but a statement of truth.

i am just not going to waste my time and see my posts ignored while you think of some minor issue to use to distract. plus your call for me to publish my proof is a bit hypocritical as all my calls for proof of yours and others positions have been ignored.

so if you assume that about me, then conclude that about yourself as well.

Give us the reference, show how this tells us learning about science is incompatible with following God.

already beend one but you ignored it like everything else. BUT i actually should do what you and glaudys try to make me do--you have a Bible go read it yourself and find the passages.

don't demand of me when you refuse to do the very same thing.

You quoted the YEC cut and paste, you should show you understand what it means and that it is in context

if you disagree with the quote and call it out of context then it is up to you to post the contextand prove your point. i am not going to disprove my argument on your behalf.

yours and glaudys' failure to do so shows me that you are just making that complaint up and are too lazy to do your own work.

i can quote what i like, if you do not like it, make a better case for yourself and stop trying to make other people do your work. i proved my point it is up to you to refute it.

you don't like that then you lose. you have shown you cannot defend your theory thus you have nothing to offer but empty words.

 

[Assyrian]

it is your choice but i wouldn't equate myself with those people inthat passage if i were you.

Are you saying we shouldn't check strange messages people preach at us against scripture?

i am not the one doing the reading in and that is a false accusation which you cannot prove.

Just look at your thread does the phrase 'in the beginning...' where you claim Hebrews 11 says God did not use natural processes. You throw scripture quotes around all the time, like Luke 8:11-12 is supposed to show that science is not of God. You just can't or won't back it up. http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=36451021&postcount=195

your avoidance of the topic and continual shifting the attention from the post to the poster undermines any of your claims along with the fact that you cannot support any of your interpretations .

I think anyone who has been following these discussion will know that you are the one who keeps refusing to answer.

http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=36487086&postcount=201
Archie: i know what it means, but i am not going to say it now.

http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=36603916&postcount=42
Assyrian:So you can't support the argument.
Archie: oh, i can but it would be what Jesus said, 'casting pearls before swine'.

http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=36358648&postcount=285
Assyrian: Again another completely groundless claim. Ludicrous when in my previous post I had given three examples of accusations you made up. Two of them you just ignored, again:
Archie: i haven't ignored anything you said, i have seen certan things and saw where they were headed and decided to not address them as they were getting off the point and to territory that was not germane to the topic.

http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=36580254&postcount=214
Assyrian: If Satan is deceiving people, how do we know you and your anti science doctrines are not the Satanic deception? It was the anti science that was led astray in the past.
Archie: the Bible lays out the criteria, you should look them up.
Assyrian: So you can't tell us the answer.
Archie: no, you lack the ability to understand and you are looking for any little tidbit to attack. it gets old after awhile having to correct your distracting, manipulative retorts.

While we are on the subject, lets have an answer to your claim about Darwin. You complained about my typo, but when I corrected the mistake, you still did not answer. Here it is again:
Archie's original quote: No but he did not create evolution, check its source. you have not quoted darwin or any other original evolutionary thinker who states theygot the theory from God or where it is grounded in scripture.
Assyrian's with typo fixed: I am still waiting for you to support your claim about scientists not saying they got the theory of evolution from God shows God did not create evolution. So far all you have done is change the subject.

labeling it doesn't make it so. it wasn't an attack but a statement of truth.

Just because you believe I am one of the swine Jesus warned you about does not mean it is not an ad hom and a personal attack.

i am just not going to waste my time and see my posts ignored while you think of some minor issue to use to distract. plus your call for me to publish my proof is a bit hypocritical as all my calls for proof of yours and others positions have been ignored.

so if you assume that about me, then conclude that about yourself as well.

You are the one who wants to argue by quoting from authorities. If you are going to quote people you should be able to show the quote is in context, and not simply and out of context cut and paste you lifted from some other creationist. So far you have failed miserably.

already beend one but you ignored it like everything else. BUT i actually should do what you and glaudys try to make me do--you have a Bible go read it yourself and find the passages.

What? You mean we should look up scriptural argument to support you position? Isn't that your job?

don't demand of me when you refuse to do the very same thing.

What have we refused to do?

if you disagree with the quote and call it out of context then it is up to you to post the contextand prove your point. i am not going to disprove my argument on your behalf.

yours and glaudys' failure to do so shows me that you are just making that complaint up and are too lazy to do your own work.

i can quote what i like, if you do not like it, make a better case for yourself and stop trying to make other people do your work. i proved my point it is up to you to refute it.

you don't like that then you lose. you have shown you cannot defend your theory thus you have nothing to offer but empty words.

YEC quotemines aren't evidence of anything but the YEC ability to take quotes out of context. You told us you got the quote from a creationist book, so it is up to you to show that the quote stands up. It is up to you to show you have done more than simply parrot an out of context quote without checking the source like you did with the Barr letter. You weren't able to provide the context for that either.

 

[archaeologist]

what i think is that you have learned well to misrepresent what people say and manipulate bits and pieces of sentences to fit your needs. sort of like the quote mining you accuse me of doing.

so i am to gather that quote mining is okay when you do it but not okay when i support my point. sounds hypocritical to me.

Are you saying we shouldn't check strange messages people preach at us against scripture

a clear misrepresentation and manipulation of what was being said. shows lack of understanding and a unwillingness to be honest.

You just can't or won't back it up

see above for an example of what i am about to say. it is not that i can't or won't back it up, it is a realization of what you will do with the information i have that i am not posting more.

I am still waiting for you to support your claim about scientists not saying they got the theory of evolution from God shows God did not create evolution. So far all you have done is change the subject.

you forget that i dealt with this when you posted the quote from darwin that stated--'...being...'-- not God, or any other name used to reference HIm.

your over eagerness to find some foundation in the Bible has blinded your eyes to accept any reference even when it does not refer to the most Holy One.

Just because you believe I am one of the swine Jesus warned you about does not mean it is not an ad hom and a personal attack.

why didn't you post the real quote:

oh, i can but it would be what Jesus said, 'casting pearls before swine'. i see what you TE's do and to tell you the truth, it is not of Christ

a complete statement of fact based upon experience andobservation, not an ad hominen attack.

but you like to play the victim and say--' look at the big bad creationist...'

You are the one who wants to argue by quoting from authorities. If you are going to quote people you should be able to show the quote is in context, and not simply and out of context cut and paste you lifted from some other creationist. So far you have failed miserably.

i did quote the context and did not cherry pick. in fact i think i used 2 quotes of his. what you don't like is, thatit backed up my point and left you hanging.

but again you cry and whine about context, both you and glaudys, yet neither of you felt you should post the whole thing to prove me wrong. You two were at fault for being lazy among other things.

YEC quotemines aren't evidence of anything but the YEC ability to take quotes out of context

thisis an empty charge as all of academia does the exact same thing and you are in no position to complain as none of you ever post anything credible to support your positions, thinking your word is good enough.

it isn't. you have only shown that you cannot defend your position, that all you have to offer is secularism and theories which are not of God. so do not complain.

even JAL is pathetic when it comes to defending his position. he can't do it and does what every atheist, theistic evolutionist, progressive creationist does and that is when bested, you attack the poster, which is exactly what you have been doing through the last several posts you have made.

no attempt by you, glaudys, JAL or others have beenmade to discuss the topic but i see a lot of avoidance when i post acripture, quotes from secular scientists and real biblical scholars.

do not accuse me of doing what you are guiltiest most of all.

 

[Chamale]

You know, I can't really imagine many day-to-day events as "Signs from a loving God". I think if God exists, he thinks of us as 10-year-olds with magnifying glasses think of ants. Over 5,000,000 people have died in the past 5 years as a result of a natural event that could easily be prevented by God.

 

[archaeologist]

You know, I can't really imagine many day-to-day events as "Signs from a loving God". I think if God exists, he thinks of us as 10-year-olds with magnifying glasses think of ants. Over 5,000,000 people have died in the past 5 years as a result of a natural event that could easily be prevented by God

what does this have to do with the topic?

the way of salvationis there, if you use such things as your stumblingblock so that you do not accept Christ as your savior then you only have yourself to blame.

 

[TomBormat]

Hi Archie!!

 

[TomBormat]

Hi again Archie!!!

 

[Assyrian]

what i think is that you have learned well to misrepresent what people say and manipulate bits and pieces of sentences to fit your needs. sort of like the quote mining you accuse me of doing.

so i am to gather that quote mining is okay when you do it but not okay when i support my point. sounds hypocritical to me.

If we are having a discussion and you think I am misrepresenting you, show me how. Your problem is your arguments fall apart when we look at them. But that is a problem with your arguments not me misrepresenting you.

Are you saying we shouldn't check strange messages people preach at us against scripture

a clear misrepresentation and manipulation of what was being said. shows lack of understanding and a unwillingness to be honest.

You had just been preaching:
repent before it is too late.
The Berean passage was quite an appropriate response.

see above for an example of what i am about to say. it is not that i can't or won't back it up, it is a realization of what you will do with the information i have that i am not posting more.

In other words you keep refusing to answer, then claim I am the one avoiding the topic

you forget that i dealt with this when you posted the quote from darwin that stated--'...being...'-- not God, or any other name used to reference HIm.

That was a different thread over on is creation outside of science's scope? You had a problem with Darwin reference to God as a Being with penetration sufficient to perceive differences in the outer and innermost organization quite imperceptible to man, and with forethought extending over future centuries to watch with unerring care... Obviously not religious enough for you. Have a look at how the Septuagint translates Exodus 3:14 (The Apostles Bible) And God spoke to Moses, saying, I am THE BEING. And He said, Thus shall you say to the children of Israel, THE BEING has sent me to you. It was good enough for the bible used by the NT church.


The discussion on this thread never mentioned Darwin's quote. I answered your claim
Archie: you have not quoted darwin or any other original evolutionary thinker who states theygot the theory from God or where it is grounded in scripture,

by asking,
Assyrian: Did the atheists Watson and Crick state that they got the structure of DNA from God? Is it grounded in scripture? Does this have anything to do with whether the science is right or not? This is another of your absurd arguments.

So far you have been unable to show why Darwin not saying he got the theory from God shows evolution was not from God, when DNA is from God even though atheists Watson and Crick did not ascribe DNA to God.

your over eagerness to find some foundation in the Bible has blinded your eyes to accept any reference even when it does not refer to the most Holy One.

Overeager, right. That was why I dismissed your claim as irrelevant when you brought it up, and only bothered to post the link after you asked me for it twice and posted some strawman reference to Darwin yourself.

why didn't you post the real quote:

oh, i can but it would be what Jesus said, 'casting pearls before swine'. i see what you TE's do and to tell you the truth, it is not of Christ

a complete statement of fact based upon experience andobservation, not an ad hominen attack.

You refuse to give me an answer because it would be what Jesus called 'casting pearls before swine', and you say you are not referring to me as one of the swine Jesus warned you about?

but you like to play the victim and say--' look at the big bad creationist...'

You excuse your insults with more abuse?

i did quote the context and did not cherry pick. in fact i think i used 2 quotes of his. what you don't like is, thatit backed up my point and left you hanging.

but again you cry and whine about context, both you and glaudys, yet neither of you felt you should post the whole thing to prove me wrong. You two were at fault for being lazy among other things.

You did quote the context? I must have missed that.

thisis an empty charge as all of academia does the exact same thing and you are in no position to complain as none of you ever post anything credible to support your positions, thinking your word is good enough.

In academia people quote journals everyone else has ready access to, and are read by others who are familiar with all the published work in an area. Anyone basing their case on out of context misunderstood references would ruin their own career.

it isn't. you have only shown that you cannot defend your position, that all you have to offer is secularism and theories which are not of God. so do not complain.

even JAL is pathetic when it comes to defending his position. he can't do it and does what every atheist, theistic evolutionist, progressive creationist does and that is when bested, you attack the poster, which is exactly what you have been doing through the last several posts you have made.

no attempt by you, glaudys, JAL or others have beenmade to discuss the topic but i see a lot of avoidance when i post acripture, quotes from secular scientists and real biblical scholars.

do not accuse me of doing what you are guiltiest most of all.

I just gave a long list of times you avoided the topic and refused to answer, all you can do is claim we do the same thing.

You have to do more than simply give a scripture reference and claim it supports you. Out of context quotes from scientists and centuries old scripture scholars who have not dealt with the modern scriptural debate over evolution and the age of the earth are not much help either. Learn to put a proper argument together yourself rather than rely on your own favourite writers, or out of context quotes someone else has passed on to you.

 

[archaeologist]

i am not in the mood for your games, the topic of this thread is:

when did God say to follow science over Him.

post to topic and stop derailing the thread.

if you notice the difference between the two quotes you will see one is refering to God and the other to some generic being which could be used to describe an alienif you wanted to.

but still that one quote is not enough to prove that darwin got his theory from God as it makes no reference to divine inspiration, divine guidance, belief in God or Jesus, and so on.

all it is doing is describing a possibility that presents itself in darwin's imagination.

that quote also doesn't prove that God said to follow science over Him which leaves you out on a limb twice over.


{nice job of not quoting the context which i believe you accuse me of doing as well, hypocrisy is not a credible characteristic.}

You excuse your insults with more abuse?

do you know what abuse means? i wasn't abusing but your misrepresentation may make you think that way.

In academia people quote journals everyone else has ready access to, and are read by others who are familiar with all the published work in an area. Anyone basing their case on out of context misunderstood references would ruin their own career

i didn't post a quote out of context and like i said, allof academia does not post the whole page, they post what is relevent. read actuall credible academic works and you will see for yourself what they do.

besides this is not on topic anyways and i am done with your misrepresentations, manipulations, if you can't stay on topic then don't answer me.

here is a question for you to take your time and consider carefully before replying:

"when did God say to follow science over Him?

 

[Rudolph Hucker]

i am not in the mood for your games, the topic of this thread is:

when did God say to follow science over Him.

post to topic and stop derailing the thread.

This is Newspeak for "I surrender".

 

[pgp_protector]

...snip...
"when did God say to follow science over Him?

Where in God's word dose is say we can use computers to communicate to each other ?

 

[ExpatChristian]

archie. I haven't understood a single thing you have said so far. Could you try and restate it?

 

[theIdi0t]

archie. I haven't understood a single thing you have said so far. Could you try and restate it?

You shouldn't pick on him so much. He'll exhaust himself and learn in due time.

 

[archaeologist]

Where in God's word dose is say we can use computers to communicate to each other ?

sigh! always to the absurd

assyrian, this is your chance to start fresh and carry on a decent dialogue...