A new CF, an old vision

[TasManOfGod]

Hmm, this sort of highlights a potential problem.

Were agnosticteen, for example, a mod... he would see that verse as a flame, and have the power to act upon it.

Under no circumstances should someone quoting scriptures be reprimanded or punished. Certainly not at "ChristianForums".

If only that rule had been in since the start of CF. It certainly doesn't work well without it

 

[porterross]

I'm excited for the changes for many reason. However, I will be respectful of the fact that this is a site for Christan's and I will still consider myself a guest. I won't intrude when someone posts seeking the opinion of other Christan's or wants to discuss specific points of theology that I don't believe in the first place. I think a change like this is a challenge for everyone to step up and act responsibly and not hide behind our icons. Anyway, thanks Erwin and thanks for everyone who has worked for the site. Remember, sometimes change is good.

You are the rare type of non-Christian who signs up to post here, though. I have appreciated your posts and avoidance of confrontation, but you are very much a minority.

 

[Leanna]

Or perhaps this is not of God.

Could just as easily be you, couldn't it.

 

[wmc1982]

There is already places to do it Leanna

Or perhaps this is not of God.

Your angry and agitated spirit is not a dwelling place for the Holy Spirit. Your human emotions are going to be an influence with anything you say on here. Do you really trust yourself that much?

 

[E.C.]

If you're referring to this:

No, I'm seeing that while one person is nearly killed for speaking the truth here, another is praised for insulting God.

 

[AllForJesus]

Athiests blaspheme God Himself...yet day after day He gives them breath...lets them speak against Him...all along extending grace that may never be recieved!!!

Thank You Father for patiently putting up with my hatred of You!! Thank You for loving me anyway...loving me with a love that broke my heart for You!!!

Worthy is Jesus...the Lamb...He who loved me and bore my shame when I was yet His enemy!!!!

Worthy is the Lamb!!!!!!!!!

Thanks.

 

[sparklecat]

But must Truth be sacrificed for unity? Must the cross be traded in for an opportunity to sit down and be insulted by an Atheist?

Didn't Paul say stay with like-minded people?

And now we must cast out the woman who brought Christ into the world?

You know, maybe you've got a point. Maybe I should consider the same for myself. After all, I can find plenty of atheist sites; why should I stay here and risk having the Christians insult me. I know they can do it, too; I've had many Christians do so in the past. I've had them tell me I'm a cold-hearted [expletive] who should burn in Hell, I've had them tell me they're praying for disaster and pain in my life, I've had them call me a fool and swine... shall I go on?

But those people weren't you. They weren't the people here, in this thread, that I'm dealing with right now, and I will do my best to not judge or reject you based on how other Christians have treated me. Instead, I'll risk getting hurt again, participate at forums with Christians, and try to see them as people, as individuals, rather than as simply Christians to be mistrusted and reviled.

Part of what I'm hoping for in these reforms is that opening up the CO sections might allow others to see me the same way.

 

[Lindon Tinuviel]

As someone who currently runs a site setup this way I posit that you are dead wrong. Sure there are nasty bits but the good outweighs the bad any day. And this site wil have rules. That much is clear. It will not be anarchy.

Agreed.

As an Admin of another site which has very similar rules, I can say that there will be some turmoil (especially at the beginning), but not lawless ravaging in the streets.

It can work, and it can work well. Very well.

 

[Naomi4Christ]

Play nice, folks!

Please don't make me clean up this thread again

 

[meant4worship]

Athiests blaspheme God Himself...yet day after day He gives them breath...lets them speak against Him...all along extending grace that may never be recieved!!!

Thank You Father for patiently putting up with my hatred of You!! Thank You for loving me anyway...loving me with a love that broke my heart for You!!!

Worthy is Jesus...the Lamb...He who loved me and bore my shame when I was yet His enemy!!!!

Worthy is the Lamb!!!!!!!!!

AMEN!!!!!!!! AMEN!!!!!!!!!! AMEN!!!!!!!!!!

And if an atheist would like to disagree with the worthiness of the Lamb of God, that is within his rights....after all, God himself gave Adam and Eve the very same right in the garden and they made the mistake of disagreeing. Why do we set ourselves up as better than God and judging whom we will associate with and allow to even moderate our discussions? I can think of one other who made that choice and you know his fate in the end..........

 

[Criada]

Believe me I am adamently opposed to the idea we have to let go of anything so as not to offend those who don't believe in order to lead them to belief. Jesus was definitely not concerned whether or not He was offensive. Most of the time, the only ones who found Him offensive were the religious leaders of the day.

I do not believe Erwin's vision for CF is to make it seeker-friendly... however, I do believe his vision is to make it finder friendly. Jesus' whole goal was to seek and save that which was lost.... why would we not invite the harvest here? What a tremendous opportunity lays before us!!

This isn't a church. It isn't an organized "religion"... it is an opportunity to talk and debate and have iron sharpen iron... and praise God for the thought that we could help someone find a true relationship with Christ!!!

I am sure that God who lead Erwin to take this decision will send His Spirit to hepl this site remain a Christians site!
I feel safe with God.

 

[wmc1982]

But must Truth be sacrificed for unity? Must the cross be traded in for an opportunity to sit down and be insulted by an Atheist?

Didn't Paul say stay with like-minded people?

And now we must cast out the woman who brought Christ into the world?

Truth can't be traded, it IS and always will BE. Nothing is being traded, we don't own it, to trade it. Christ unified with sinners, and died for them... The least we can do is let them talk with us in our little forum.

 

[E.C.]

You know, maybe you've got a point. Maybe I should consider the same for myself. After all, I can find plenty of atheist sites; why should I stay here and risk having the Christians insult me. I know they can do it, too; I've had many Christians do so in the past. I've had them tell me I'm a cold-hearted [expletive] who should burn in Hell, I've had them tell me they're praying for disaster and pain in my life, I've had them call me a fool and swine... shall I go on?

But those people weren't you. They weren't the people here, in this thread, that I'm dealing with right now, and I will do my best to not judge or reject you based on how other Christians have treated me. Instead, I'll risk getting hurt again, participate at forums with Christians, and try to see them as people, as individuals, rather than as simply Christians to be mistrusted and reviled.

Part of what I'm hoping for in these reforms is that opening up the CO sections might allow others to see me the same way.

I don't think others will see the same way. When people are angry at God, they remain in that anger, usually, their whole lives.

It is different to be called _____ by an Atheist than from a Christian. What hurts more is when the Atheist does so because usually it is because of being Christian.

 

[Zecryphon]

Believe me I am adamently opposed to the idea we have to let go of anything so as not to offend those who don't believe in order to lead them to belief. Jesus was definitely not concerned whether or not He was offensive. Most of the time, the only ones who found Him offensive were the religious leaders of the day.

I do not believe Erwin's vision for CF is to make it seeker-friendly... however, I do believe his vision is to make it finder friendly. Jesus' whole goal was to seek and save that which was lost.... why would we not invite the harvest here? What a tremendous opportunity lays before us!!

This isn't a church. It isn't an organized "religion"... it is an opportunity to talk and debate and have iron sharpen iron... and praise God for the thought that we could help someone find a true relationship with Christ!!!

"I do not believe Erwin's vision for CF is to make it seeker-friendly... however, I do believe his vision is to make it finder friendly. Jesus' whole goal was to seek and save that which was lost.... why would we not invite the harvest here?"

Because what you see as a potential harvest, the non-believing crowd, a good portion of them, not all of them, I believe are going to eat Christians like ravenous wolves and spit them out. Some atheists and agnostics live for this, not all but some.

"What a tremendous opportunity lays before us!!"

Good luck with it and bring your "A" game, cuz these people are gonna bring theirs. As hard as you try to convert them to Christianity, they are going to try equally hard to deconvert Christians and show them why Christianity is just plain foolish and stupid. Have you read any of the popular atheist authors of today? Dawkins? Harris? Hitchens? They've read our book, the Bible. Have you read any of theirs? Just out of curiosity. If this turns into what I think it's gonna turn into, you'd best be prepared.

"This isn't a church. It isn't an organized "religion"... it is an opportunity to talk and debate and have iron sharpen iron... and praise God for the thought that we could help someone find a true relationship with Christ!!!"

I do love your optimism. It brings back memories.

 

[Glass*Soul]

The Bible also says I am not to cast my pearls among swine either.

I would show love to the non-Christian, but I wouldn't let him pastor the church or give me ideas on how to run the run. The fool says in his heart, there is no God. I don't want fools running the show.

It was a Christian forum, though, which many of us joined and supported in good faith of remaining so. Now, not even the Trinity is being upheld as a basic Christian principle by confession of the creeds. It's going to be more like a tent revival with miked hecklers.

My dear Christian neighbors,

I resolve not to cast personal insults against you in any forum on this site. Will you resolve likewise towards me?

 

[wmc1982]

That is what I'm thinking.

Just like the Reformation and the Enlightenment. Both are so-called "goods" but are really "bads".

You think the Reformation is not of God? There is no point in discussing with you any further, unless you are just uneducated and are an eager and patient learner. You have a very biased attitude that goes against the foundation of this site and the majority of it's beliefs. I love the EO, I don't say their way is "bad", unlike you just have said all of protestants. I don't appreciate that. I forgive you though, on account that it is my responsibility through Christ and the fact that you are young and immature.

 

[Dave01]

I do hope the Spirit-filled section can get rid of the master list that has plagued that section for some time now. Give us actual denominational sections and get rid of the free-for-all drive-by shooting spree called a general section.

 

[E.C.]

Truth can't be traded, it IS and always will BE. Nothing is being traded, we don't own it, to trade it. Christ unified with sinners, and died for them... The least we can do is let them talk with us in our little forum.

What were you taught when (trying to phrase this correctly) you became a Christian? You were taught what Christ had done. And if from a liturgical Church background, you were taught the faith of your fathers and forefathers.

All that is being traded. Dumped out would be more accurate. The precious Eucharist is being thrown on the ground and spat upon and no one cares.

 

[RedTulipMom]

marking my place and going to bed

nighty night all

 

[Abiel]

Hi all

I need to firstly give all glory to God for all He has done in my life. There is no question that He has blessed me with everything that I have and He deserves all the praise. God is good, all the time, and all the time, God is good.

[bible]Exodus 15:11[/bible]

I admit that I have neglected the running of CF for most of the past 12 months. This is because of 2 reason - Firstly, I have been truly busy - my day job is to run a hospital, and that is a very busy job. In addition, I am an elder in my church, and I also sit on various medical and legal committees outside of work. I am also studying a second Masters degree at the moment. I have a busy life.

However, the second reason why I have avoided CF is because CF has become like "hard work" to me - I no longer felt that visiting it was a positive thing. I did not look forward to reading negative posts about the site nor having to deal with PMs from various factions within CF wanting me to do something to support them. I had developed an aversion to the site - I dreaded clicking on my CF bookmark. I was in despair, to be honest. I suspect some of you, including staff members, have felt the same.

But God reminded me:

[bible]Jeremiah 1:5[/bible]

I had to return to my roots. Just as returning to your first love for God is important, I had to return to why I started CF in the first place. The original vision for CF. The vision I have for CF has always been to unite ALL Christians on the Internet. Somehow, the site has ended up dividing some Christians, and caused strife in the body of Christ. It doesn't matter that our intention was good - it is the outcome that matters. Sure, CF has done a lot in the lives of many, but the Bible says:

[bible]Luke 15:4[/bible]

CF is here for Christians on the Internet, and not the other way around. CF should not try to make Christians conform to what it believes to be Christian. Who am I to judge the heart of another man? I can't. CF should be a place of refuge, as ones who bear the name of the Lord, a strong tower for Christians to feel safe in. It should attract Christians because we raise Jesus up to draw all men unto him.

[bible]Proverbs 18:10[/bible]

CF should also be a lighthouse in the wilderness, to be a good testimony to those who are not Christians instead of showing the world that Christians are actually worse than they are.

[bible]Matthew 5:13-14[/bible]

We must be the light, not the ones that block the light.

Are we really helping each other by tearing each other down? Are we really being good witnesses to the world by refusing to let the world in? Are we that afraid of the dark when we have the Light of the world?

The Christian world is a world that is diverse. Make no mistake, we are all different, and we are meant to be that way.

[bible]1 Corinthians 12:15-18[/bible]

Instead of putting other Christians down because they do not believe in what we do, because we believe we have the "truth", we should celebrate our similarities and revel in our differences which makes us useful for God to be used in different settings for different people.

We are all part of the same body. One Body. One God.

Okay, enough proselytising.

Let's discuss the "new" CF. One thing to make clear is that these are things that I want happen, and that will happen, and whether staff or members agree with them or not, they are what I believe to be the right things to do. Some, maybe a lot, may disagree, but I believe it's time for a MAJOR paradigm shift at CF.

Unlike what people might have mistakenly expected, the "new" CF is NOT going to happen overnight.

It's going to happen in stages. However, there are mainly going to be 2 stages:

1. The first stage is the CULTURE change stage. This is going to start happening from TODAY but will be an ongoing process. This will involve:

a. Changing the site rules - simpler, less legalistic, and more open
b. Changing the way rules are developed or changed - wikify it! The rules process should be a member-initiated community-propelled, and consensus driven, not something that a minority can decide on.
c. Changing the way moderators are appointed - the members decide! There will be forum moderators, category moderators, and then super moderators. Members nominated, members vote, members appointed. Appointments are for a 12 months - at the end, can be renominated, or not. The power is with the people. And yes, if you are not a Christian, you can be on staff, if people vote for you to do so. The whole process will be open, transparent, and clear. What about current staff? They will all have to be renominated and voted in at some stage.
d. No more warnings. If God can forgive, so can we. Of course, consistent rule-breakers and trolls will still be banned, but hey, that's not going to be avoidable for any site. But not legitimate users.
e. No more restriction of forums for non-Christians - if a non-Christian can walk into a church, a non-Christian can walk and post in any forum here. Some forums may still have gender or age restrictions, but the whole side, as should be any Christian site, will now be totally [OPEN].
f. No more restriction of faith icons - who are we to tell you who you are or what you believe in? In fact, no other restrictions - if you want to call yourself married, go ahead. It is between you and God, not you and CF.
g. Related to the above, if you believe you are a Christian, you are. No more reliance on our own definition of what we think is a Christian. In the end, who are we to judge.
h. Transparent appeals of moderator actions in a much more simpler format - with member input allowed - in fact, the community has a say in all appeals. The way it should be. As the community has written the rules up in the end.
i. No more hidden moderator forums - in fact, no hidden forums at all (except trash forums). If we can read it, you can read it. What is there to hide? If it has to be private, it can be in a PM. This will mean more transparency from all people.

The above outlines the setup of the new rules. A lot of the above cannot happen overnight, and will require some work. But the aim is for culture change at CF.

Many people, including current staff, will not be happy with the above, and some will quit, leave or resign. I bear you no ill-will - you do what you think is right, I do what I think is right. Yes, some of the above changes are controversial, and in fact, radical. But it's time for a total new way of looking at CF. We want to unite all Christians. Not just some.


2. The second stage is the TECHNOLOGY change stage. This is going to start happening over the next MONTH as this will involve extensive recoding and even software replacement. New features will be added. Members would have noticed that we have hit a hiatus in terms of new features being added and CF has not had a new feature for a long time. Well, I am looking at changing this. In the past, I've been the only server administrator, webmaster and coder. I've outsourced the server administration part of things, but there is room to outsource other things. The software behind CF requires a lot of improvements, and this WILL occur. I won't say too much about them because the second stage will be the part that will be most visible and trust me, when it happens, it will be obvious.


In other words, stage one, the culture change, is the change of CF's heart and soul, while stage two, the technology change, is the change of CF's look and body. In my mind, stage one is by far the most important. Both stages are hard to do.

Stage one starts now. Stage two will occur later and will mean some significant functionality changes.

[bible]2 Corinthians 1:10-12[/bible]


Let's go.

Hallelujah! Praise God from whom all blessings flow!