The pillars of the earth.

[philadiddle]

There are three places in the bible that talk about the earth being on pillars.

Job 9:6 - He shakes the earth out of its place, and its pillars tremble;
1 Samuel 2:8 - ...“For the pillars of the earth are the LORD’s, and He has set the world upon them.
Psalm 75:3 - The earth and all its inhabitants are dissolved; I set up its pillars firmly. Selah

Since many ppl here insist that we must take God at His word, please tell me where these pillars are. I"d like to quote from a previous thread. I could have responded in that thread but I felt this was worth a new thread.

I would like you to prove this for me using two principles: Sola Scriptura and Scripture interprets Scripture.

AV1611 is talking about interpreting the creation account and insists we can only use scripture. So, if the verses talking about the pillars that the earth are standing on are not literal, you can only use scripture to support your claim, as per the rules set by some of the YECs on this board. If you cannot explain, using only scripture, how those verses are allegorical, then you must reject all of science that says the earth isn't on pillars, and trust God's word that the earth is resing on pillars.

 

[Jadis40]

Actually, as I've pointed out, the Hebrews had their own cosmology, which they believed explained the appearance of the natural world.

The pillars of the earth were believed to hold up the dome of the sky, which they really thought was solid.

http://sol.sci.uop.edu/~jfalward/ThreeTieredUniverse.htm

 

[HypnoToad]

Taking an account literally doesn't mean it is completely devoid of figures of speech.

Watch the weather report on your local news. They often mention "sunrise" and "sunset". Do all weathermen think the sun circles the earth? No. It's a figure of speech. Does that mean the weather report is just an allegory?

 

[crawfish]

Taking an account literally doesn't mean it is completely devoid of figures of speech.

Watch the weather report on your local news. They often mention "sunrise" and "sunset". Do all weathermen think the sun circles the earth? No. It's a figure of speech. Does that mean the weather report is just an allegory?

Of course, nobody will admit that something is an allegory until it is proven otherwise. I'm sure that back in ancient times, if someone said the earth was a sphere revolving around the sun somebody could have (and literalists WOULD have) used to bible to prove them wrong.

Is this the best way? To deny something until it is absolutely impossible to deny it anymore?

 

[Fed]

Haha that's exactly what Aristarchus (heliocentrism) said and Greek fundies ignored him.

 

[juvenissun]

Since many ppl here insist that we must take God at His word, please tell me where these pillars are.

First, let's make clear on the meaning of the words:

Pillar is a thing which supports significant load.
Pillar could be in any shape as long as it has the supporting function
Pillar could move as long as the supporting function exists
Pillar is a thing which is identified as a different object than its surrounding material
Earth could mean land

If you have question about the above clarifications, then we discussion that first. After that, I would make a suggestion on what the pillars of the earth could be.

 

[Mallon]

First, let's make clear on the meaning of the words:

Pillar is a thing which supports significant load.
Pillar could be in any shape as long as it has the supporting function
Pillar could move as long as the supporting function exists
Pillar is a thing which is identified as a different object than its surrounding material
Earth could mean land

If you have question about the above clarifications, then we discussion that first. After that, I would make a suggestion on what the pillars of the earth could be.

So what makes this approach any different from considering the different non-literal meanings of the words "day," "death," or "earth" in Genesis?

 

[philadiddle]

Taking an account literally doesn't mean it is completely devoid of figures of speech.

Watch the weather report on your local news. They often mention "sunrise" and "sunset". Do all weathermen think the sun circles the earth? No. It's a figure of speech. Does that mean the weather report is just an allegory?

Nice deflection.

First, let's make clear on the meaning of the words:

Pillar is a thing which supports significant load.
Pillar could be in any shape as long as it has the supporting function
Pillar could move as long as the supporting function exists
Pillar is a thing which is identified as a different object than its surrounding material
Earth could mean land

If you have question about the above clarifications, then we discussion that first. After that, I would make a suggestion on what the pillars of the earth could be.

You say a few things that "could" be, but is that what the original hebrew is saying? I'm willing to go along with these definitions, as long as you provide the hebrew words and definitions, as well as other evidence in the bible. The link provided in a post above is quite insightful on the matter. I'll quote it again.

http://sol.sci.uop.edu/~jfalward/ThreeTieredUniverse.htm

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

Taking an account literally doesn't mean it is completely devoid of figures of speech.

Watch the weather report on your local news. They often mention "sunrise" and "sunset". Do all weathermen think the sun circles the earth? No. It's a figure of speech. Does that mean the weather report is just an allegory?

Fair enough.

But if its a figure of speech, what exactly is it a figure of speech, what exactly is 'pillar' a figure for?

Gravitation and electromagnetic force?

 

[crawfish]

First, let's make clear on the meaning of the words:

Pillar is a thing which supports significant load.
Pillar could be in any shape as long as it has the supporting function
Pillar could move as long as the supporting function exists
Pillar is a thing which is identified as a different object than its surrounding material
Earth could mean land

If you have question about the above clarifications, then we discussion that first. After that, I would make a suggestion on what the pillars of the earth could be.

And in Arkansas, you sleep with a pillar under your head.

 

[plainswolf]

Pillars, foundations, measurements, storehouses, etc.. etc..

It's temple language - the earth is likened to a temple.

 

[philadiddle]

It's temple language - the earth is likened to a temple.

How does scripture suggest this?

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

Pillars, foundations, measurements, storehouses, etc.. etc..

It's temple language - the earth is likened to a temple.

Yes, exactly! All creation is build to worship God!

Another example: the phrase "till and keep the garden," 'keep' is the same word used to describe the action of Levite priests guarding the temple.

 

[Assyrian]

First, let's make clear on the meaning of the words:

Pillar is a thing which supports significant load.
Pillar could be in any shape as long as it has the supporting function
Pillar could move as long as the supporting function exists
Pillar is a thing which is identified as a different object than its surrounding material
Earth could mean land

If you have question about the above clarifications, then we discussion that first. After that, I would make a suggestion on what the pillars of the earth could be.

So an african woman carrying a pot of water on her head is a pillar? Walls supporting a roof? Or a flat bed truck? A container ship? A maglev rail?

 

[juvenissun]

So what makes this approach any different from considering the different non-literal meanings of the words "day," "death," or "earth" in Genesis?

So why don't you give an example and we can evaluate the meaning of it in a similar way.

 

[juvenissun]

So an african woman carrying a pot of water on her head is a pillar? Walls supporting a roof? Or a flat bed truck? A container ship? A maglev rail?

Yes, The woman is a very good demonstration. The aspect ratio of the rail is too much off. The ship is also a little stretch because most of the weight on the ship is "in" the ship while the weight a pillar supports is outside the pillar.

The next thing to consider is the meaning of the word "earth". It would be much harder if it means the whole earth. Job probably had no idea that the earth is hanging in the space. So I think the best possible meaning of the word is "the ground" or "the land", So it does not include the sea.

 

[shernren]

Taking an account literally doesn't mean it is completely devoid of figures of speech.

Watch the weather report on your local news. They often mention "sunrise" and "sunset". Do all weathermen think the sun circles the earth? No. It's a figure of speech. Does that mean the weather report is just an allegory?

So how do you detect a figure of speech? When the weather report tells you "Tomorrow at sunrise there will be showers", how do you tell what it actually means?

 

[HypnoToad]

Nice deflection.

It's not a deflection. It shows how you don't understand what a literal interpretation entails.

So how do you detect a figure of speech? When the weather report tells you "Tomorrow at sunrise there will be showers", how do you tell what it actually means?

Context.

 

[FenderElctrc]

Of course, nobody will admit that something is an allegory until it is proven otherwise. I'm sure that back in ancient times, if someone said the earth was a sphere revolving around the sun somebody could have (and literalists WOULD have) used to bible to prove them wrong.

Is this the best way? To deny something until it is absolutely impossible to deny it anymore?

In the Bible, it states that the Earth is round and that the skies are expanding. We recently discovered these things when it was in the Bible the whole time. By the way, it's Isaiah 40:22.

 

[Mallon]

In the Bible, it states that the Earth is round and that the skies are expanding. We recently discovered these things when it was in the Bible the whole time. By the way, it's Isaiah 40:22.

Isaiah 40:22 says the earth is a circle. A circle is a flat, 2D object, much like a piece of clay flattened beneath a seal (Job 38:13-14). I really don't think this offers strong support for the scientific accuracy of the Bible.