Concensus

[WarriorAngel]

Not that you can SEE my reply (lest you peek)

but it was Jesus who said Abraham rejoiced to SEE MY DAY and was GLAD.

We just dont know these things after the FLESH Paul says. His words are SPIRIT and LIFE

Fireinfolding

Helping you come out of hiding. lol

We as woman are to be subject to our own husbands. Submissive to them as we are to the Lord. In everything. If our own husbands are unloving does not mean that we can be unsubmissive. Now if there is abuse then we can go to the church and God has set up the law also to protect people from this abuse. whether it be male or female or child. But if the husband is loving as Christ commands it is much easier to be submissive. But even if they are not loving we are to submit to them. For this is our command from our Lord. Sarah even called Abraham Lord and obeyed what He said to do. Abraham was a mighty man of Faith and He loved God.

Some I agree with, some I absolutely do not.

If a woman or man marries a non believer they do not have to put them away.
BUT by example may save them.

Therefore an athiest husband is not the authority over the woman's faith.... but she is the example.

Therefore, again, this broad brush is in error.

I agree women may still CHOOSE to submit to their husbands....
And be pleasing to God, but the man cannot force this on a woman because he doesnt make her his wife, but a slave ...

Men and women must remember if both [not just one] submit to the other, the marriage is a happy union.

AND since, as I said it a few times now, Christ submitted unto death for the Church and He became the servant to the Apostles, showing them how they ought behave to all His ppl...then men also must imitate the Lord.

Thus men are also to submit to their wives.

A woman has no authority over her own body, but the husband, and the husband has not authority over his body, but the wife.

You seem to exclude alot of the other parts...
Maybe I am not understanding you.

Are you suggesting men have the right to make women be submissive?

Or isnt that, as all things from the Lord, a choosen option for the women who WISH to be pleasing unto the Lord???

If a women is forced to be submissive to the husband, and she doesnt do this from choice...what merit is that to her??

And if a man forces a woman to be submissive, what merit is that to him?

 

[IamAdopted]

Helping you come out of hiding. lol



Some I agree with, some I absolutely do not.

If a woman or man marries a non believer they do not have to put them away.
BUT by example may save them.

Therefore an athiest husband is not the authority over the woman's faith.... but she is the example.

Therefore, again, this broad brush is in error.

I agree women may still CHOOSE to submit to their husbands....
And be pleasing to God, but the man cannot force this on a woman because he doesnt make her his wife, but a slave ...

Men and women must remember if both [not just one] submit to the other, the marriage is a happy union.

AND since, as I said it a few times now, Christ submitted unto death for the Church and He became the servant to the Apostles, showing them how they ought behave to all His ppl...then men also must imitate the Lord.

Thus men are also to submit to their wives.

A woman has no authority over her own body, but the husband, and the husband has not authority over his body, but the wife.

You seem to exclude alot of the other parts...
Maybe I am not understanding you.

Are you suggesting men have the right to make women be submissive?

Or isnt that, as all things from the Lord, a choosen option for the women who WISH to be pleasing unto the Lord???

If a women is forced to be submissive to the husband, and she doesnt do this from choice...what merit is that to her??

And if a man forces a woman to be submissive, what merit is that to him?

To force someone is to be abusive. This I spoke about on the other post. If a woman or man is married to an unbeliever we are still to obey God. If a mate wants us to sin against God then we are to obey God and not man. But if what the husband wants us to do is not sin then we because we are Christs are to be submissive to our husband. we are to yield to his rulership of the household.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Yes, we are to yield, by choice.

And since it is by choice, then it makes sense the man due to his own law of love [and submitting] he will ask his wife and they will agree

 

[MarieRose]

This reminds me of a show I was watching on TBN that had a woman on it who was talking about how she had finally learned to be submissive towards her husband and to stop trying to usurp his authority. She stated that she used to get home from work tired and he would be sitting in the living room yelling at her to get him a sandwich and that she used to resent having to fix him a sandwich but once she understood the proper role of the Christian wife she understood that he was the head of the household and that when she went to get him a sandwich or to do some other task for him she would do it with joy in her heart.

 

[IamAdopted]

Yes, we are to yield, by choice.

And since it is by choice, then it makes sense the man due to his own law of love [and submitting] he will ask his wife and they will agree

And if they do not agree then what?

 

[WarriorAngel]

If they do not agree, then the love from the husband should respect the wife, and the wife through her humility should respect the husband...

And if matters cannot be settled, then the subject should be forgotten for it might tempt the man to look at his wife with contempt.
And it might make the woman resent her husband.
Which is also bad.

So it should not go forth.



MarieRose;
A woman can find joy in submitting....but the man is not treating her as he would himself...now is he??

Demanding and insisting his way is not love. read 1 Corinthians, which I quoted.

So, who has the greater reward in Heaven?

Just something to think about.
Though I am not judging, but as a hypothetical, we must all learn to treat our spouses as we would ourselves...and I do not demand anyone serve me as a servant.

LOVE does not insist on its own way. ...!!

 

[WarriorAngel]

BTW....
Since Paul neglects to tell women to love their husbands...does this mean they do not have to?

Since love doesnt insist, then a wife will not insist just as a husband does not.

Yet other scriptures tell us we may only marry for love.
Wives have that choice too.

For if they marry without love, then they also break this teaching.

So we must remember everything scriptures infer to us, and not read only what is stated in one place.

IF a husband is also pleasing to God, he will ask kindly for his wife's help. Even better yet, he would get up and make her the sandwich.

I am not a feminist, but I do tire of these verses being held up to the light to which the rest is neglected.

 

[IamAdopted]

If they do not agree, then the love from the husband should respect the wife, and the wife through her humility should respect the husband...

And if matters cannot be settled, then the subject should be forgotten for it might tempt the man to look at his wife with contempt.
And it might make the woman resent her husband.
Which is also bad.

So it should not go forth.



MarieRose;
A woman can find joy in submitting....but the man is not treating her as he would himself...now is he??

Demanding and insisting his way is not love. read 1 Corinthians, which I quoted.

So, who has the greater reward in Heaven?

Just something to think about.
Though I am not judging, but as a hypothetical, we must all learn to treat our spouses as we would ourselves...and I do not demand anyone serve me as a servant.

LOVE does not insist on its own way. ...!!

Forgotten? I think not. This is what scripture deals with. The man is the head of the wife. Christ is the head of the man. And God is the head of Christ. We have different roles here on earth. Set up from creation. This is what we are to subject ourselves to is Gods written word. It is the body of Christ that is to be submissive to each other and then Paul goes into great detail how this is to be done. Here is the stepping order. God , Christ,Man,Woman,. This is pretty simple to see. Rebellion is as the sin of witch craft so if a woman will not submit to her husband then we are not exhaulting God over our own human desires and wants. And this is once again rebellion against God. For once again we put our ways before Gods ways and this does not in any way glorfy God. We are to die to our wants and desires and live for Gods.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Forgotten? I think not. This is what scripture deals with. The man is the head of the wife. Christ is the head of the man. And God is the head of Christ. We have different roles here on earth. Set up from creation. This is what we are to subject ourselves to is Gods written word. It is the body of Christ that is to be submissive to each other and then Paul goes into great detail how this is to be done. Here is the stepping order. God , Christ,Man,Woman,. This is pretty simple to see. Rebellion is as the sin of witch craft so if a woman will not submit to her husband then we are not exhaulting God over our own human desires and wants. And this is once again rebellion against God. For once again we put our ways before Gods ways and this does not in any way glorfy God. We are to die to our wants and desires and live for Gods.

It does not matter to what context you are saying this...
But in order for us to submit one to the other....
Then this includes husbands.

Is it lost on anyone that Christ gave us an example of His submissiveness???

Where in the world did witch craft come from??

My Gospel is complete...and I see the context fully.

Submitting to one another is a very broad brush...and this includes husbands, as I painfully gave you many more scriptures to back that up.

It is pleasing to God that women are submissive, and I do not deny that.

But men are too. Isnt that plain yet?

Women do not lord this over men, because we are the ones who please. Paul was reiterating what instinct women have.

However; women are NOT evil.

 

[IamAdopted]

It does not matter to what context you are saying this...
But in order for us to submit one to the other....
Then this includes husbands.

Is it lost on anyone that Christ gave us an example of His submissiveness???

Where in the world did witch craft come from??

My Gospel is complete...and I see the context fully.

Submitting to one another is a very broad brush...and this includes husbands, as I painfully gave you many more scriptures to back that up.

It is pleasing to God that women are submissive, and I do not deny that.

But men are too. Isnt that plain yet?

Women do not lord this over men, because we are the ones who please. Paul was reiterating what instinct women have.

However; women are NOT evil.

and where anywhere in my post did I say that woman are evil? Husbands are the head of the household. God holds them to a higher standard in many things. Such as in raising thier children. We see in scripture that God addresses the Fathers when it comes to the discipline of the children and not mothers. The witchcraft came with us women not obeying what Gods word tells us to do. To submit to our husbands. Scripture tells us that rebellion is as witchcraft.

1Sa 15:23 "For rebellion is as the sin of divination, And insubordination is as iniquity and idolatry. Because you have rejected the word of the LORD, He has also rejected you from being king."

We see here if we reject the word of the Lord and do not deny ourselve and put Gods word above our own desires thoughts and wants that we indeed set ourselves up as our own God and not bring the word of the Lord to put away our selfish desires.

 

[WarriorAngel]

and where anywhere in my post did I say that woman are evil? Husbands are the head of the household. God holds them to a higher standard in many things. Such as in raising thier children. We see in scripture that God addresses the Fathers when it comes to the discipline of the children and not mothers. The witchcraft came with us women not obeying what Gods word tells us to do. To submit to our husbands. Scripture tells us that rebellion is as witchcraft. We see here if we reject the word of the Lord and do not deny ourselve and put Gods word above our own desires thoughts and wants that we indeed set ourselves up as our own God and not bring the word of the Lord to put away our selfish desires.

First of all, the Op was about women being evil, and it seems that some men believe that a woman is evil and therefore she is subject to men.

NOW.... I said this how many times that women are to submit.

BUT why is it that once more, men are not seeing how they too are to submit??

You can defend this til you are blue, but I am not arguing.

I am trying to show that BOTH must submit one to the other.

IS that part lost on this thread??

 

[ContentInHim]

This reminds me of a show I was watching on TBN that had a woman on it who was talking about how she had finally learned to be submissive towards her husband and to stop trying to usurp his authority. She stated that she used to get home from work tired and he would be sitting in the living room yelling at her to get him a sandwich and that she used to resent having to fix him a sandwich but once she understood the proper role of the Christian wife she understood that he was the head of the household and that when she went to get him a sandwich or to do some other task for him she would do it with joy in her heart.

You are describing me. I fought against "submitting" to my loving husband for 7 years. Finally, I realized that I loved him more than I loved getting my own way. When I stopped fighting him for control, he began giving more consideration to my opinion. Finally our lives were in balance.

Submitting does not mean being a doormat! And it must be done with love, not resentment! God can work miracles, even in unbelievers' hearts!

 

[icedtea]

This reminds me of a show I was watching on TBN that had a woman on it who was talking about how she had finally learned to be submissive towards her husband and to stop trying to usurp his authority. She stated that she used to get home from work tired and he would be sitting in the living room yelling at her to get him a sandwich and that she used to resent having to fix him a sandwich but once she understood the proper role of the Christian wife she understood that he was the head of the household and that when she went to get him a sandwich or to do some other task for him she would do it with joy in her heart.

Then maybe she should've quit her job so she wouldn't be so tired. Doesn't seem right to me. I don't have to worry about being married again,a s no guy has spoken to me in 12 years, but submitting makes him the adult and the wife the child. Which makes it incestful, in my opinion.
I will not submit!

 

[mike1reynolds]

Ahhhh, then, so athiest men have the rule of thumb in spiritual matters??

You paint with a broad brush.

Not necessarily, but in your case I would much sooner trust their advice than yours.

Lets try this again.....

Women may be subject, but the Bible never tells a man it is his place to make her as such!!!

What does the Bible say to do to contumacious women in church who want to teach and tell everyone what to do?

The part about loving a woman means NOT INSISTING on your own way.
All too often men think these verses mean they can lord over a woman to be subject.

Thus they break the commandment of love. The greatest commandment of all, BTW!!!!!

What was my twice repeated 10% vs. 90% rule? You are just sneering at me without even reading my message. You claimed to be my friend, but with friends like this, who needs enemies?

It wasnt to you.

It was directed at a situation, which HD and I happen to share. You are an utterly thoughtless person who cannot take responsibility for your own actions.

Actually you said due to lack of a mother figure you do not know how to act with women.

Actually I was just relating to her and not giving advice at all. We are both in the same boat, although what she suffered in childhood was obviously much more severe than what I suffered.

If you do not know, its best to take advice and NOT treat women with contempt.

All you have done over the last few weeks is treat me with contempt. Male/female, makes no difference, if you treat those you claim are your friends with contempt, what does that say about you?

 

[mike1reynolds]

Submitting does not mean being a doormat! And it must be done with love, not resentment! God can work miracles, even in unbelievers' hearts!

Ah, you really are a woman of virtue! I was very touched by your response to my childhood spiritual trauma that I posted yesterday.

By contrast, when I asked WarriorAngel for sympathy during a recent spiritual trial all she did was sneer at me and tell me that I am insane. I do not know whatever possessed me to think that she was my friend or a virtuous person.

 

[mike1reynolds]

I will not submit!

No one is saying that the Bible demands that you get married. That is quite something apart from what we are discussing here. If you have a serious problem with your opposite gender parent then it is best not to get married at all, or to wait until you have worked through all the issues. I have been celibate for 18 years because of this myself, so I would be the last one to judge you for not taking another mate after your first traumatic marriage.

 

[mike1reynolds]

BTW....
Since Paul neglects to tell women to love their husbands...does this mean they do not have to?

You are arguing like a lawyer. How morally impressive.

 

[icedtea]

I have no issues with men, I was a good wife. My former husband was horrible, trust me.
You beat me! I've only been celibate for 12.

 

[mike1reynolds]

I have no issues with men, I was a good wife. My former husband was horrible, trust me.

I wasn't saying you were a bad wife, you obviously were very submissive, but to the *wrong* man! The problem is not that you are contumacious, you are not at all. The problem is that your father set you up with his abusiveness and so now it is hard for you tell a good man from a bad man. Not knowing what man to trust, it is better then to simply not trust any man in the capacity of a husband. Stick with cultural figures like the pastor of your church or some other older male who cares about you but has no romantic interest in you.

You beat me! I've only been celibate for 12.

I don't know who to trust like that either, even as a friend. I tend to put my trust in women who did nothing but flatter me without ever showing any real sign of friendship, only to find that I can't rely on them at all when I am in a real crisis.

Such is life, but I think that I've finally turned the corner and maybe soon I can really feel confident that I have found someone who really and truly has my back.

 

[mike1reynolds]

First of all, the Op was about women being evil, and it seems that some men believe that a woman is evil and therefore she is subject to men.

Since not a single person has taken up the assertion that women are evil, and in fact this was nothing but a distorted attack on my PM's to you, which said nothing at all about women being evil, it is just a typically trollish strawman argument. You are searching for evil men who believe that all women are evil, and there just aren't any here. It is in fact you who thinks that most men are evil, but it is really just a conspiracy theory.

NOW.... I said this how many times that women are to submit.
BUT why is it that once more, men are not seeing how they too are to submit??

I addressed this twice, in the 90%/10% argument that I made in which men submit to good women 90% of the time. But obviously that isn’t good enough for you, men must submit 100% of the time to women, in your opinion. This is the very definition of a contumacious woman.