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Question about Christianity

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Trento

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I am very curious - I believe that Jesus healed people fully ---- but could you like show me in Scripture where He or anyone else did regeneration of "new" body parts.

Thanx


This a well documented miracle which caused some agnostic Doctors to convert.
So as not to be bias i will use the International Survivalist Society a secular Organization conjectureing on physical supernormal facts on a Lourdes inexplicable miracle.


Suppurating Fracture of the Leg. - Pierre de Rudder, who lived at Jabbeke, near Ostend, had his leg broken by a falling tree. Dr. Affenaer reduced the fracture and placed it in a starch splint, both bones being fractured and protruding through the skin. The flesh turned gangrenous, a large ulcer formed on the dorsal part of the foot, the wound was full of pus, and Dr. Vassanaere and others, called to a consultation, advised immediate amputation; to which the patient would not consent. About the middle of January Dr. Verriest again advised amputation, without effect. In April the patient was taken to the Grotto at Lourdes. There was a gap of over an inch between the ends of the bones and foul pus poured from the wound. Arriveing at the Grotto he felt something happening as he rested on the seat. He knelt down and got up unaided, his leg resumed its normal size, the wounds healed up and the bones were solidly united. De Rudder then got up and walked without crutches to the omnibus which took him back to Ghent. The next day Dr. Affenaer came to visit him;
"he found the bones quite smooth at the scat of fracture, which was firmly united without any callus. The man lived for twenty-three years after, and during that time worked continually on his land without the least sign of fatigue or pain."

"As this case excited an enormous amount of interest throughout Belgium, Dr. van Hoestenberghe, after De Rudder's death, got permission to exhume the body, and he removed the bones of the legs, which are now in the possession of the Bishop of Bruges."

These bones were photographed, right and left leg for comparison: the photograph shows deformity at the scat of the fracture, but perfect union of the bones; there is no shortening and only slight displacement from the straight. The medical gentleman who has so kindly brought this case to my special notice remarks:

How can we explain this case? We are confronted with the same difficulty as in the previous one. It is impossible to reject the direct evidence of so many competent medical men who examined the fracture both before and after the cure. Besides, we have the direct evidence of the united bones which were exhumed in the presence of a number of witnesses. We have no alternative but to admit the miraculous, although it goes dead against all our preconceived notions of the inviolability of natural laws to do so. Are we to believe that Nature's laws can be set aside, or are we to reject all human testimony and the evidence of the bones themselves? Or may it be that the miracle is the result of some unknown law of the spiritual world? When Dr. Verriest examined the fracture three months before the cure, he stated that there was a separation of three centimetres (1 1/3 inches) between the two ends. In the centre of the wound two bony fragments could be seen, blackened and necrosed, and bathed in pus. To obtain a natural cure the necrosed ends would first have to be removed, and by that time the separation of the bones would have amounted to three inches or more. How was this cavity filled up? The periosteum had long since been destroyed by the suppuration ... But here is another difficulty: where did the phosphate of lime come from to fill the gap? It could only come from the blood. Now the whole blood in the body only contains about 1.6 grammes of phosphate of lime, and the callus would require at least four times that amount. Where could it come from?(1) And further, what became of the sequestra? They must have disappeared, but where? And where did all the pus go to? It was so profuse that it poured over the cushions of the vehicle that brought him to the Grotto, much to the annoyance of the driver. And, lastly, the muscles during all these years after the fracture took place were atrophied and useless. How did they regain instantly their pristine vigour? No one is able to answer any of these questions, and yet the cure is incontestable.
 
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IamGodslittlegirl

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This a well documented miracle which caused some agnostic Doctors to convert.
So as not to be bias i will use the International Survivalist Society a secular Organization conjectureing on physical supernormal facts on a Lourdes inexplicable miracle.

Suppurating Fracture of the Leg. - Pierre de Rudder, who lived at Jabbeke, near Ostend, had his leg broken by a falling tree. Dr. Affenaer reduced the fracture and placed it in a starch splint, both bones being fractured and protruding through the skin. The flesh turned gangrenous, a large ulcer formed on the dorsal part of the foot, the wound was full of pus, and Dr. Vassanaere and others, called to a consultation, advised immediate amputation; to which the patient would not consent. About the middle of January Dr. Verriest again advised amputation, without effect. In April the patient was taken to the Grotto at Lourdes. There was a gap of over an inch between the ends of the bones and foul pus poured from the wound. Arriveing at the Grotto he felt something happening as he rested on the seat. He knelt down and got up unaided, his leg resumed its normal size, the wounds healed up and the bones were solidly united. De Rudder then got up and walked without crutches to the omnibus which took him back to Ghent. The next day Dr. Affenaer came to visit him;
"he found the bones quite smooth at the scat of fracture, which was firmly united without any callus. The man lived for twenty-three years after, and during that time worked continually on his land without the least sign of fatigue or pain."

"As this case excited an enormous amount of interest throughout Belgium, Dr. van Hoestenberghe, after De Rudder's death, got permission to exhume the body, and he removed the bones of the legs, which are now in the possession of the Bishop of Bruges."

These bones were photographed, right and left leg for comparison: the photograph shows deformity at the scat of the fracture, but perfect union of the bones; there is no shortening and only slight displacement from the straight. The medical gentleman who has so kindly brought this case to my special notice remarks:

How can we explain this case? We are confronted with the same difficulty as in the previous one. It is impossible to reject the direct evidence of so many competent medical men who examined the fracture both before and after the cure. Besides, we have the direct evidence of the united bones which were exhumed in the presence of a number of witnesses. We have no alternative but to admit the miraculous, although it goes dead against all our preconceived notions of the inviolability of natural laws to do so. Are we to believe that Nature's laws can be set aside, or are we to reject all human testimony and the evidence of the bones themselves? Or may it be that the miracle is the result of some unknown law of the spiritual world? When Dr. Verriest examined the fracture three months before the cure, he stated that there was a separation of three centimetres (1 1/3 inches) between the two ends. In the centre of the wound two bony fragments could be seen, blackened and necrosed, and bathed in pus. To obtain a natural cure the necrosed ends would first have to be removed, and by that time the separation of the bones would have amounted to three inches or more. How was this cavity filled up? The periosteum had long since been destroyed by the suppuration ... But here is another difficulty: where did the phosphate of lime come from to fill the gap? It could only come from the blood. Now the whole blood in the body only contains about 1.6 grammes of phosphate of lime, and the callus would require at least four times that amount. Where could it come from?(1) And further, what became of the sequestra? They must have disappeared, but where? And where did all the pus go to? It was so profuse that it poured over the cushions of the vehicle that brought him to the Grotto, much to the annoyance of the driver. And, lastly, the muscles during all these years after the fracture took place were atrophied and useless. How did they regain instantly their pristine vigour? No one is able to answer any of these questions, and yet the cure is incontestable.

Actually, I was asking for proof in the NT for regeneration of NEW body parts.

by the way, satan is capable of and does healings as well. how does one tell if it is him or God?

where is the proof that drs converted? and to what did they convert to?

thanx
 
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Rebirth In Flames

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In God's eyes, it brings Him more glory to forgive a sinner, than to heal body parts; we saw this in his healing of the paralytic - he only healed the physical so that others around might believe, but He made it very clear that the chief miracle is the one which saves sins. For a Christian to raise a physical miracle above the spiritual miracle of the forgiving of sins, is to miss the mark completely. On a side note, if I had become seriously hurt and, (for illustration's sake), permanently unable to walk, I'd imagine it'd bring more glory to God for me to glorify Him even amidst my suffering, than for me to look towards Him ridding me of the suffering. Spiritual maturity rests upon the Christian who sees his hurt "body parts", (as you say), and brings glory to God through the disability; not the one who seeks personal comfort above glorifying God in and through all circumstances. Let us not forget the great example Job provided for us - who, though not understanding why certain things were happening to him, didn't ask God for all of it back, but still trusted in God and glorified Him THROUGH the hardships that God had allowed to happen for His greater glory. May our lives be lived for His greater glory in all we do, in all that He lets happen to us, and in the daily surrender of our hearts which humbly proclaim, "Lord, you know better than me; may Your will be done."
 
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JTLauder

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I'm not offended by this at all. If the person saying it meant it as a sarcasm, then shock him by not being defenseive and agree with him.

Many people say that Christians use God/Jesus as a "crutch" that they act like they can't function without God. And from one perspective, it's very true because Jesus didn't come to save the "healthy" (or supposedly morally superior religous leaders), but came to those who recognized their need for help.

And in the same way, a prosthetic limb is actually an even better analogy. I doubt if you approach anyone who is missing a limb and ask if his prosthetic limb is offensive or not, they would disagree, but that they need it to replace a part of them that is missing. In the same way, God fills the gap of that missing component in all humans that is vital for life.

I for one am not offended that God is that additional part that is not naturally part of me to give me strength to carry on, but am very grateful for it.
 
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IamGodslittlegirl

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In God's eyes, it brings Him more glory to forgive a sinner, than to heal body parts; we saw this in his healing of the paralytic - he only healed the physical so that others around might believe, but He made it very clear that the chief miracle is the one which saves sins. For a Christian to raise a physical miracle above the spiritual miracle of the forgiving of sins, is to miss the mark completely. On a side note, if I had become seriously hurt and, (for illustration's sake), permanently unable to walk, I'd imagine it'd bring more glory to God for me to glorify Him even amidst my suffering, than for me to look towards Him ridding me of the suffering. Spiritual maturity rests upon the Christian who sees his hurt "body parts", (as you say), and brings glory to God through the disability; not the one who seeks personal comfort above glorifying God in and through all circumstances. Let us not forget the great example Job provided for us - who, though not understanding why certain things were happening to him, didn't ask God for all of it back, but still trusted in God and glorified Him THROUGH the hardships that God had allowed to happen for His greater glory. May our lives be lived for His greater glory in all we do, in all that He lets happen to us, and in the daily surrender of our hearts which humbly proclaim, "Lord, you know better than me; may Your will be done."

thank you so much - well said :wave: as Paul said when God did not take away his thorn:
2Co 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

I love 2 Cor 4, 6, 11 as well. Not once does Paul pray to be relieved of any of his suffering - only that the Lord is glorified.
 
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IgnatiusOfAntioch

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Hi, the other day I was talking with some people and one of them said that Christianity was a 'prothetic appendage', used only by those without the strength to support themselves. I don't know what he meant but it seemed quite offensive. What did he mean?

It's the old Communist statement that faith is a crutch and 'the opium of the masses.' IOW, not for 'enlightened' people like themselves. The Secular humanists have taken up and now march to this mantra from the failed communist philosophy. That philosophy, like the communist one are false and ultimately self defeating.

Yours in Christ.
 
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SonOfSophroniscus

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Why is communist philosophy self defeating? I know that Marx's Materialism is often considered to be so, when taken conjunctively with 'Soviet' determinism, but this particular counter-argument is logically invalid [as Marx set no temporal constraints on his philosophy].

It's to old Communist statement that faith is a crutch and 'the opium of the masses.' IOW, not for 'enlightened' people like themselves. The Secular humanists have taken up and now march to this mantra from the failed communist philosophy. That philosophy, like the communist one are false and ultimately self defeating.

Yours in Christ.
 
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IgnatiusOfAntioch

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It's the old Communist statement that faith is a crutch and 'the opium of the masses.' IOW, not for 'enlightened' people like themselves. The Secular humanists have taken up and now march to this mantra from the failed communist philosophy. That philosophy, like the communist one are false and ultimately self defeating.

Yours in Christ.
Why is communist philosophy self defeating? I know that Marx's Materialism is often considered to be so, when taken conjunctively with 'Soviet' determinism, but this particular counter-argument is logically invalid [as Marx set no temporal constraints on his philosophy].

You are talking theoretics. Communism does work on paper in an ideal world. In point of fact it always fails in the real world. It is a totally false and specious system. Dozens of countries have tried it in various permutations. It has proven to be a system that has not, does not, and will not ever work in the real world.
But don't let me burst your fantasy if you need that kind of crutch to deal with the world. God ahead and believe your the made up world.

Just don't try to push it on me!!!
 
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scapeg0at

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I don't believe there is any biblical basis for your statement. Could you please give NT proof of satan doing healings?

Satan capable of healing? Maybe if its only a staged act rather than an actual healing, which would make it a lie, then it would most definately fall into satans jurisdiction... but healing goes against the nature of the beast. Jesus was criticised and challenged by the pharisee's, they said that he used the power of demons to remove demons, Jesus said that satan can not take away from himself. Do you remember the parable spoken to the pharisees in response to this question? It is like the kingdom of god, we each build it up and cause it to grow, the same for satan here, granted his kingdom is larger in earth, but satan can not take away from his kingdom.
 
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IamGodslittlegirl

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Satan capable of healing? Maybe if its only a staged act rather than an actual healing, which would make it a lie, then it would most definately fall into satans jurisdiction... but healing goes against the nature of the beast. Jesus was criticised and challenged by the pharisee's, they said that he used the power of demons to remove demons, Jesus said that satan can not take away from himself. Do you remember the parable spoken to the pharisees in response to this question? It is like the kingdom of god, we each build it up and cause it to grow, the same for satan here, granted his kingdom is larger in earth, but satan can not take away from his kingdom.

IgnatiousofAntioch: I don't believe there is any biblical basis for your statement. Could you please give NT proof of satan doing healings?

so you all are saying that healings done in satanism and witchcraft are of God? :swoon: :help:

a couple of witchcraft sites:

http://www.spellsnow.com/

http://www.erzulies.com/site/catalog/category/52

witchdoctors heal as well
 
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IamGodslittlegirl

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Those links go to sites about witchcraft and casting spells.

exactly my point - witches heal :eek: and the father of witches is?
if people weren't healed by the spells, they wouldn't use them :)

2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

signs includes miracles = healings.

Joh 6:2 And a great multitude followed him, because they saw his miracles which he did on them that were diseased.
 
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scapeg0at

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exactly my point - witches heal :eek: and the father of witches is?

2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
signs includes miracles = healings.


Don't make it appear that i agree with you saying that witches heal. They don't heal. I have seen that spells only create chaos.

The scripture you quote speaks of false prophets. The spirit of a prophet can cause great signs. For me, this reffers to the prophet known in Islam. He did perform some great signs, and did lead many sheep astray.
 
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IamGodslittlegirl

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Don't make it appear that i agree with you saying that witches heal. They don't heal. I have seen that spells only create chaos.

The scripture you quote speaks of false prophets. The spirit of a prophet can cause great signs. For me, this reffers to the prophet known in Islam. He did perform some great signs, and did lead many sheep astray.


you missed my edit on the same post, so I will repeat it:

2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

signs includes miracles = healings.

Joh 6:2 And a great multitude followed him, because they saw his miracles which he did on them that were diseased.

the word miracles in this verse is the same word for signs in 2Thes 2:9

ps: the passage in 2 Thes 2 does not say "prophet" - it say the "man of sin"
 
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scapeg0at

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you missed my edit on the same post, so I will repeat it:

2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

signs includes miracles = healings.

Joh 6:2 And a great multitude followed him, because they saw his miracles which he did on them that were diseased.

the word miracles in this verse is the same word for signs in 2Thes 2:9

It's basic biblical theological knowledge that satan is unable to heal.

Starting with the word miracle and its defination, of course miracle defines anything done that has no scientific explanation. Miracles in the bible range from the creation of everything that you see and touch to what you don't see and touch. The parting of the sea's, raiseing of dead and causeing great storms.

Miracles from the view of witchcraft would be makeing someone fall in love, reading their future, wearing charms for things such as health and wealth, but is all spells, not healing, and then there is communicateing with the demons in the spirit world.

Now, if you think that satan can heal then perhaps you need a crash course on the nature of the beast. From the very first mention of the adversary in scriptures, we see that satan deceives. From that point on, we see that his angels deceive, these would be satans seed. Throughout the bible satan has never ever performed a good deed and never will. These are the reasons that satan will be thrown into the pit and locked within it.


Also, your pov will create a problem with your christianity. How will you know one's fruit to be good if an evil tree is able to bear good fruit? So you see, satan can not heal. It's good to be aware of his lies and deception.
 
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