Water into Wine.

[DiscipleDave]

Evidence cannot be contrary to scripture, Dave. The evidence scientists look at is part of creation itself. It was made by God. In fact, scripture tells us it was made by the Word of God. (John 1:1-3) So how can evidence, made by the Word of God, be contrary to the scriptures?

Unless, of course, the Word of God is intended to deceive us. Is that what you believe?

Does Scriptures teach that God created the Earth in 6 days? yes or no?

Yes Scriptures do teach that He created the EArth in six days, this is Factual and is True, even to the point, that He tells us what He created on which particular Day. It also teaches that He created ADAM, the first man, and lo and behold we have a lineage from Adam all the way to Jesus Christ, which is about 6000 years ago. This is Factual and is True according to Scriptures. Now Scientist teach the Earth is billions of years old, they teach this based on evidence that they SEE. So then the evidence that they teach is contrary to Scriptures, unless of coarse you don't believe Scriptures, but you believe them.

You ask >>>> So how can evidence, made by the Word of God, be contrary to the scriptures? <<<<

Evidence, made byt he Word of God, is not contrary to Scriptures BUT, what scientist say about that Evidence IS contrary to the Words of God. Are you yet without understanding on this.

God creates a Full Grown Tree, by merely saying Tree, then He writes down in His Words that He did exactly that, However Scientists comes along and examine that Tree, and say this Tree is 400 years old, therefore the Scriptures can't be right, the Tree can't be minutes old, because the evidence says it is 400 years old. Did then God try to decieve people ? Hello, did He not say He created it, by His mere Words?, He did not try to conceal anything, nor hide anything, nor try to decieve anyone.
God, the Almighty creator of all life and everything, said He created the EArth in 6 days, humans, corruptible, fallible humans, say He did not. Hello, who are you going to believe? God and what He says, or men and what they say?
Many say God would not try to decieve us, He didn't, He clearly said He made the Earth in 6 days, this He did.
Well here is the bottom line. The GOD i worship, can create the Earth in a fraction of a second, by His mere words. It is no great thing to me, that He created the Earth in 6 days, which would be ample enough time for Him to create a billion Earths all over the universe. But He did it the way He did it, to establish His Sabbath for us, to be an example for us to work 6 days, rest on the 7th.
Scientist say it is IMPOSSIBLE for any person to walk on water. WHY do they say this? Because the evidence that is presented to them, does not allow any mass, unless the density is less then the water, to float on the water, therefore because the evidence seems to suggest a person can't walk on water, it cant be done. Yet the Words of God says Jesus did, and Peter also. Do you then believe the Words of God or what Scientists say? Scientist say it is impossible to turn a few fishes into thousands of fishes, INSTANTLY, yet Jesus did, unless of coarse again you do not believe the Words of God, but believe scientists. Jesus in all His miracles that He did, healing the blind by merely saying be healed, and cureing all manner of diseases, and all the other miracles He did, scientists will teach that those things are impossible based on the evidence they have today, they also say based on the evidence we have today, the earth can't be 6000 years old, it is billions of years old.
i believe God, and i believe His Words. if then His Words says He walked on water, i believe it, do you? If the Words say that He INSTANTLY turned water into wine, guess what i believe it, do you? If the Words of God say He INSTANTLY turned a few fishes into many fishes, and on two separate occasions He did this, i believe it, Do you? If He INSTANTLY healed people of whatever disease, or disablility that they had, i believe it, Do you? If people were INSTANTLY healed by merely touching His clothes, i believe it, do you ? If He INSTANTLY brought people back to life, after they have been DEAD, i believe it, Do You ? If then the Words of God says that He created the Earth in 6 days, like He said He did, is it a hard thing for me to agree that He did? No, because i rely on what the Scriptures teach, and not what people say is evidence. Do you?

In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ

DiscipleDave

^i^

 

[DiscipleDave]

You're going to have to do better than that. Keep with me here. God created everything, right? Thus, he also created the LAWS that governs all things. Many of those laws have been found to be consistent and repeatable, and testable. Thus, if God set up those laws in such a way where we'd have to BREAK them for what actually happened to be true, that IS deceptive.

Jesus wasn't trying to deceive anybody by creating aged wine.

I'm not making this God's fault. I'm saying the creation story was told for a different purpose other than revealing God's actual method of creation.

By the way, Luke 10:21 also fails the contextual test for this argument.

CRAWFISH please examine post #55 you have me ( DiscipleDave ) saying that, But i was not the one saying that at all.

In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ
DiscipleDave
^i^

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Did then God try to decieve people ? Hello, did He not say He created it, by His mere Words?,

OK, so, let talk about the tree example...

IF God creates a tree... instantly, and minutes ago, as you suggest... WHY would he create all the marks of age that would lead us to understand the tree is 400 years old?

How is that not deceptive?

OK, so... heres a book that says he made things look old (although the Bible does not, in fact, say this)
then at best you have two conflicting sources from the creator, on the one hand we have the tree, made by the creator, in which he wrote "400 hundred years old" clear as writing English, through growth rings and such, and here we have a text which says "magiced into existence"...

Can you honestly see no disparity here?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

No, because i rely on what the Scriptures teach, and not what people say is evidence. Do you?

so... answer me this please, how do you know what to accept as "true" and what to discard as mistaken human understanding?

 

[DiscipleDave]

Questioning the Christianity of your fellow believers and insisting there will be "weeping and gnashing of teeth" if we do not subscribe to your individual take on Genesis is not a convincing way of learning about our thoughts.

Are you then saying there will not be weeping and gnashing of teeth ?
i merely said that there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, i did not say you would be doing this, nor any poster on this board would be doing this. Now if you are being convicted by my statement, then what is that to me. But i never said you nor anyone else on this board will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. You do error if you think i have done this thing.

In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ
DiscipleDave
^i^

 

[DiscipleDave]

Which is better, a person who merely believes the Earth was created in 6 days, because that is what the Words of God teach, and they need no proof of it, but believe. Or a person who, because of what all the humans say about the EArth, do not believe what the Words of God say,

Which is better, a person who believes that God did not create a lie, but that the Word of God made a creation which speaks truly and gave us a scripture which also speaks truly, and seeks to determine the most harmonious way to claim the truth of both without contradiction. Or a person who shuts his eyes to part of God's truth because of what humans have told him about how to read scripture and that he must not question that interpretation even though God's creation tells a different story?

This is easy, i believe God and what He says. Tell me, if you are able to do so, When Jesus created many fish from a few fishes, how old were those fishes ?????
Did they not take up 12 basket full of fishes, tell me, How old were those fishes ?????? Because i assure you with no doubts whatsoever, that if a scientist were to have examined those fishes, they would not be merely minutes old. You do error in not knowing Scriptures nor the power of God. Just because he INSTANTLY created something that appears to be old when it is actually not old at all, does not make Him a liar, nor the deed to be a lie, nor the miracle itself to be a lie. So tell me Did Jesus make FISH, INSTANTLY so that 5000 people could eat? Did He or didn't He, tell me.
If then you say Yes He did, because the Bible says He did, therefore i believe He did, tell me, if you will, How old was the fish that He created INSTANTLY ??????? Did He create minows, that were only seconds old, and they all did eat of the minows? or did they eat Fish ? which appeared in every way to be months old, maybe years old, yet in reality, because Jesus just INSTANTLY created them, were merely seconds old. OH MY, did Jesus lie ? Did He decieve the people ? Or does the Words tell you clearly that He INSTANTLY created FISH? Therefore did not lie, nor did He decieve but clearly in front of them all, created Fish INSTANTLY. He did this with wine also. i then said wine is old, and you, i think said wine can be made in 2 days, which by the way would not taste good at all, only being two days old, but any way, even so, How can Jesus create wine INSTANTLY, and appear to be two days old in every way, taste, looks, smell, and the such. Do you think He lied then also?
The Words of God teach that He created the EArth in 6 days, and this generation ( and only this generation ) doubts it, yet He created wine INSTANTLY, He created fish INSTANTLY, He created bread INSTANTLY, He raised the dead INSTANTLY, But NO He could not create the Earth in 6 days like He said He did, Why? because the evidence we have suggests otherwise.
You know something, The people who drank the wine that Jesus made INSTANTLY, probably thought the same thing people who don't believe the 6 day creation. When they tasted it, and found out that it was INSTANTLY made, that according to the taste and the evidence, they did not believe it was made by Jesus INSTANTLY, because the would be a lie wouldn't it? They tasted it, they knew it was old wine, the best wine then they had when they started, they knew it couldn't be seconds old, because the evidence clearly indicated otherwise, therefore they probably did not believe the miracle either.
i am telling you the Truth, evidence is decieving. The Words of God is True, what we see is carnal, what we believe is spiritual.
God made fish INSTANTLY
God made bread INSTANTLY
God made wine INSTANTLY
God made the dead to raise again INSTANTLY
God made the sick well again INSTANTLY
God made lame, whole again INSTANTLY
God made the Earth in 6 days INSTANTLY

All of these can be found in the Scriptures, the Words of the Living and All Powerful God.
you either believe it or you don't.

In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ
DiscipleDave
^i^

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Did He or didn't He, tell me.

Good question. did he make individual fish, each with its own scars, and life history? Did he transport pre-existing fish from somewhere else, or where they entirely new, spontaneously generated fish?

Were they, in fact, fish, in the true sense, or were there just a huge amount of fish like material?

But I'd say that if they WERE individual fish, each with its own history, different sizes, different scal count, different stomach content, gender, scars, whole thing... but were brought into existence without ever having been real, live, swimming in the ocean fish at any point, yes, I'd call that deception

 

[DiscipleDave]

The problem arises that the "Words of God" were written through human agents. In any given biblical text, where do the words of man stop, and the words of God begin?

If only God would drop from heaven a complete and accurate rendering of his will and his words, but alas this has not been the case.

The words of Holy Scripture have a very real human component.

Is God powerful ? Is He Great ? Can He do all things ? How then is it so hard to believe that He would make sure that the Scriptures we have today, are accurate and True, and exactly as He wants them ?

The God i worship can change every Bible in the entire world without our even knowing that He did, if He so chose to do so ?

What kind of Father which loves his children would not leave accurate instructions for his children to follow when he is away ? Is not God more then a mere father ?
God did leave us accurate instructions, and He made sure that all that He wanted written into what would be known as His Words, were in fact His Words. Tell me, if a Disciple was about to write something that was from his own point of view, could God not have stopped him from doing so? yes He is God, and could have. Could not God have put it upon His heart, don't write that ? Yes He could have, He is God.
Did God know that the epistles that the Disciples wrote, would be put into a book called the Bible, the Words of God, and would be around for His children to follow and obey for over 2000 years ???? Well did He know this ? i would think most would agree that He did know that what the Disciples wrote, would later be collected and put into a Bible, that we have today. If then He knew this, would He not ensure that they were in fact His Words that were going to be written down ? Yes, i know so, He is God. Therefore what we have today in the KJV Bible is the Truth, and God saw to it that it was the Truth to lead us children into Salvation, so we have accurate instructions to get back to Him and serve Him in His Kingdom.
Why do people doubt the Bible was written by men, overseen by God, because they do not believe what is written therein. Why don't they believe what is written, because they are not numbered among those who Christ was given, they may have been called, but they are not chosen. The chosen are they who believe in Faith, needing no evidence, or proof, or sign, or anything, they believe in Faith, which by the way is the number one ingredient in Salvation.

more information on this can be found here:
http://members.aol.com/discipledave/book/Wordofking.html

In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ
DiscipleDave
^i^

 

[DiscipleDave]

OK, so, let talk about the tree example...

IF God creates a tree... instantly, and minutes ago, as you suggest... WHY would he create all the marks of age that would lead us to understand the tree is 400 years old?

How is that not deceptive?

OK, so... heres a book that says he made things look old (although the Bible does not, in fact, say this)
then at best you have two conflicting sources from the creator, on the one hand we have the tree, made by the creator, in which he wrote "400 hundred years old" clear as writing English, through growth rings and such, and here we have a text which says "magiced into existence"...

Can you honestly see no disparity here?

When Jesus created Wine, Bread and the Fish INSTANTLY, how old did they appear to the people ?
If it was INSTANTLY made yet appeared to the eyes to be old, according to you this is deceitful, is it not ? He said He created a few fishes into many fishes, and this He did, we believe it, not because of the evidence that is presented to us, but because it is what He said He did ( Faith ) He also said He created the EArth in 6 days, but because of what we see, we doubt. For example, how many of the 5000 people doubted about the Fishes, they are looking at a full grown fish on their plates, and they find out that Jesus made them INSTANTLY, they look down again at the plate of a full grown fish, and satan immediately makes them doubt, because they are looking at a full grown fish, how can it be seconds old ? They in a like manner did not believe because of the evidence presented to them.
If then Christ can make fish appear out of nowhere at all, and He can turn ordinary water into wine, why is it such a great thing that He can also create the Earth in 6 days, just as He said He did ????
Its not deception, its a miracle. The Earth being created in 6 days, is not a deception, it is a miracle.

In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ
DiscipleDave
^i^

 

[DiscipleDave]

so... answer me this please, how do you know what to accept as "true" and what to discard as mistaken human understanding?

Anything humans say or teach, is subject to satans schemes and temptation. Anything humans say can be wrong and prone to mistakes and inaccuracies. But the Word of God is never wrong, and what it says is Truth. Therein lies my Faith, what it says is the Truth, and i believe it and doubt not. Satan causes doubts and confusions and he causes divisions amongst brothers and sisters in Christ, by making them believe things which are contrary to the Scriptures.
But for me, the Words of God are True, and what they say are True, what men say is not True, what men teach is not True, but what Scriptures say and teach, these are True, and if men teach things which is contrary to Scriptures, then what they teach is not True, if they teach what Scriptures teach, then what they teach is True, but if contrary, then untrue.
Therefore if anyone tries to teach me, that the Earth is millions of years old, which is contrary to Scriptures, then i will not believe it, but will rather believe God and what He says, and not what humans say is the Truth.

2Tm:3:16: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

you either believe this, or you don't. i believe it, because that is my Faith, that ALL SCRIPTURE is given to us by the inspiration of God, this i believe and doubt not.

 

[DiscipleDave]

Good question. did he make individual fish, each with its own scars, and life history? Did he transport pre-existing fish from somewhere else, or where they entirely new, spontaneously generated fish?

Were they, in fact, fish, in the true sense, or were there just a huge amount of fish like material?

But I'd say that if they WERE individual fish, each with its own history, different sizes, different scal count, different stomach content, gender, scars, whole thing... but were brought into existence without ever having been real, live, swimming in the ocean fish at any point, yes, I'd call that deception

And Yet that is exactly what He did? Are you then saying that Christ is a deciever because He did that ? Or did He make them right in front of their faces, not decieving them at all ?

In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ
DiscipleDave
^i^

 

[busterdog]

Is God powerful ? Is He Great ? Can He do all things ? How then is it so hard to believe that He would make sure that the Scriptures we have today, are accurate and True, and exactly as He wants them ?

The God i worship can change every Bible in the entire world without our even knowing that He did, if He so chose to do so ?

What kind of Father which loves his children would not leave accurate instructions for his children to follow when he is away ? Is not God more then a mere father ?
God did leave us accurate instructions, and He made sure that all that He wanted written into what would be known as His Words, were in fact His Words. Tell me, if a Disciple was about to write something that was from his own point of view, could God not have stopped him from doing so? yes He is God, and could have. Could not God have put it upon His heart, don't write that ? Yes He could have, He is God.
Did God know that the epistles that the Disciples wrote, would be put into a book called the Bible, the Words of God, and would be around for His children to follow and obey for over 2000 years ???? Well did He know this ? i would think most would agree that He did know that what the Disciples wrote, would later be collected and put into a Bible, that we have today. If then He knew this, would He not ensure that they were in fact His Words that were going to be written down ? Yes, i know so, He is God. Therefore what we have today in the KJV Bible is the Truth, and God saw to it that it was the Truth to lead us children into Salvation, so we have accurate instructions to get back to Him and serve Him in His Kingdom.
Why do people doubt the Bible was written by men, overseen by God, because they do not believe what is written therein. Why don't they believe what is written, because they are not numbered among those who Christ was given, they may have been called, but they are not chosen. The chosen are they who believe in Faith, needing no evidence, or proof, or sign, or anything, they believe in Faith, which by the way is the number one ingredient in Salvation.

more information on this can be found here:
http://members.aol.com/discipledave/book/Wordofking.html

In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ
DiscipleDave
^i^

I agree with much of what you have said. What has been said for our benefit is clear in many respects. We dispute it far more than is necessary.

However, lots of people who don't understand it are like the Apostles themselves:

Luk 24:15 And it came to pass, that, while they communed [together] and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.
Luk 24:16 But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.

But they were still his chosen Apostles.

 

[busterdog]

OK, so, let talk about the tree example...

IF God creates a tree... instantly, and minutes ago, as you suggest... WHY would he create all the marks of age that would lead us to understand the tree is 400 years old?

How is that not deceptive?

OK, so... heres a book that says he made things look old (although the Bible does not, in fact, say this)
then at best you have two conflicting sources from the creator, on the one hand we have the tree, made by the creator, in which he wrote "400 hundred years old" clear as writing English, through growth rings and such, and here we have a text which says "magiced into existence"...

Can you honestly see no disparity here?

Deception sounds like dishonesty and sin. Perhaps that was not your intent.

Does God hide things from people. Absolutely. Pharoah first hardened his heart agains the truth and God let him walk that path even further. Jesus admits that things are hidden from the wise by design.

Was that the case with trees? Since I and many Christians are not demanding that the first tree was grown from a seedling, we are not deceived. Adam had the Word of God, apparently, he was not deceived. So who is left that is deceived?

Without being sure where you are going about the character of God, I would just hope that it is not to point the finger at Him and accuse Him.

 

[Deamiter]

Anything humans say or teach, is subject to satans schemes and temptation. Anything humans say can be wrong and prone to mistakes and inaccuracies. But the Word of God is never wrong, and what it says is Truth. Therein lies my Faith, what it says is the Truth, and i believe it and doubt not. Satan causes doubts and confusions and he causes divisions amongst brothers and sisters in Christ, by making them believe things which are contrary to the Scriptures.
But for me, the Words of God are True, and what they say are True, what men say is not True, what men teach is not True, but what Scriptures say and teach, these are True, and if men teach things which is contrary to Scriptures, then what they teach is not True, if they teach what Scriptures teach, then what they teach is True, but if contrary, then untrue.
Therefore if anyone tries to teach me, that the Earth is millions of years old, which is contrary to Scriptures, then i will not believe it, but will rather believe God and what He says, and not what humans say is the Truth.

2Tm:3:16: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

you either believe this, or you don't. i believe it, because that is my Faith, that ALL SCRIPTURE is given to us by the inspiration of God, this i believe and doubt not.

Interesting how you say that the Bible is the "Word of God" but in the Bible, the only "Word" is Jesus. Are you claiming (as some creationists around here have) that Jesus is the Bible?

Then you talk about the words of God. Nowhere in the Bible does it suggest that Genesis 1 and 2 are attributed to God. There are many passages that directly quote God which can be said to be 'words of God' but you're making a huge leap of logic to say that because all scripture is inspired by God, all scripture can be attributed directly to God. That'd be like saying that since I was inspired to write a poem after listening to a song, the song actually wrote the poem. You're suggesting an unbiblical doctrine of a Bible dictated by God -- something that is claimed by the Qu'ran but is never claimed in the Bible!

Further, your interpretation of scripture is not untainted as your understanding of scripture is based directly on human teaching. You're dealing with writings that were written by humans and is now being interpreted by humans, yet you claim your understanding of scripture is no different than God's understanding of scripture. To be quite honest, that comes off as incredibly arrogant! It always makes me wonder how you'd respond if somebody told you that Jesus was literally a door made out of a vine because that's what the Bible teaches and since the Bible was dictated by God, it can't be in error! Would you not pass on your human understanding that these passages are not factual though they still contain truth -- just as many of us keep explaining to you about Genesis 1 and 2?

 

[Melethiel]

The Words of God teach that He created the EArth in 6 days, and this generation ( and only this generation ) doubts it,

You are wrong. The idea that the 6 days are not literal is far from limited to this generation.

 

[DiscipleDave]

Interesting how you say that the Bible is the "Word of God" but in the Bible, the only "Word" is Jesus. Are you claiming (as some creationists around here have) that Jesus is the Bible?

The Bible is ink written on dead trees, it is not Christ, now the meanings and the teachings of the Bible that were written on this dead tree, i take to heart, and they are written upon my heart. But the Bible is not Jesus, but they are words that He spoke, they are words that His Disciples wrote, they are an accurate and True reflection of what Jesus taught. The paper that our constitution was written on, is nothing, what it says and what it means is what we live by. Likewise the Bible is nothing ( paper/ink ) but what it says and what it means is what we live by, True Christians that is live by it.

Then you talk about the words of God. Nowhere in the Bible does it suggest that Genesis 1 and 2 are attributed to God.

What are you asking? if God Himself wrote the Bible, No, He didn't God Himself did not write a single word, a single letter in Scriptures, this is True, However what is written, by men, was allowed by God, to be written. Does God have the power to decide what is written in His Words or not ? Yes, God does have the power to decide what He will allow and what He will not allow to be written in His Words, which He knew from the beginning of time of the Earth, that they would in fact be called His Words.

Genesis1:1: In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. ( Who did? God did ) 2: And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. ( Who moved upon the water? God did. 3: And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. ( Who said let there be light? God did ) 4: And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. ( Who divided the light from the darkness? God did.

Sorry but i see all throughout Genesis that it was attributed to God and what He did, Which He did.

There are many passages that directly quote God which can be said to be 'words of God' but you're making a huge leap of logic to say that because all scripture is inspired by God, all scripture can be attributed directly to God.

huh ? if someone writes something that is inspired of God, it is from God, if they write of themselves then it is not from God but from self. If ALL of scripture is inspired of God, it is from God, Hello, i did not think logic was needed here, it is common since, one does not need to become learned or acquire logic to understand and believe if ALL of Scripture is inspired of God, it is therefore from God, because He is the one who inspired what is written in ALL of Scriptures.

2Tm:3:16: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Therefore All Scriptures are from God, Hence the reason we call them the Word of God, or the Words of God, For even though they are written by men, they are His Words, not theirs. Paul clearly indicates what is his words:

I Cor 7:10: And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
11: But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.
12: But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.

Clearly he indicated what was from the Lord and what was from his own thinking. Therefore when a person adds their own thinking into what they are writing, they clearly indicate that they are doing so. This i do as well, what i say and teach is what Jesus said and taught me, i very rarely add my own thoughts and beliefs into what He taught me, and when i do, i clearly say it is my opinion, which is nothing.

That'd be like saying that since I was inspired to write a poem after listening to a song, the song actually wrote the poem. You're suggesting an unbiblical doctrine of a Bible dictated by God -- something that is claimed by the Qu'ran but is never claimed in the Bible!

This is where me and you differ then, i know that if Matthews writting was inspired by God, that God had Matthew write exactly what He wanted him too, else He would not have chose him to write it. God chose only those people who He knew full well would write ALL things according to Him. Know you not that it is the Holy Ghost that reveals Truth, which Holy Ghost comes from God the Father?

Lk:12:12: For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.

Who teaches you ? The Holy Ghost does, He it is that teaches us Truths, He it is that teaches us what to Write and what not to write, If then a person is inspired of God, they have the Holy Ghost which came from God Himself, and cannot write anything that is not from God, the Holy Ghost that is in them would not allow this thing to happen.

Acts:1:2: Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

Who gave them commandments after Christ was returned to the Father? the Holy Ghost did.

Acts:13:2: As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.

Who said Separate them ? The Holy Ghost said this, not the men, however it was a man that said it, but the Holy Ghost said it.

Acts:16:6: Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia,

Who forbid them? The Holy Ghost did, interesting thing here, if the Holy Ghost forbid them to go to Asia, how much more would the Holy Ghost forbid them to write thing that were not from God? Hello, are you understanding this?

1Cor:2:13: Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

So then the Holy Ghost teaches us what is from God and what is not from God, Therefore all those who wrote the Bible were inspired of God, inspired because the Holy Ghost taught them what to write and what to say.
So if someone is inspired of God, they have the Holy Ghost in them, which came down from Heaven. The Holy Ghost would not permit them to write anything, i say it again ANYTHING, that is contrary to God Himself. Therefore ALL of SCRIPTURES, is True and is from God.

Further, your interpretation of scripture is not untainted as your understanding of scripture is based directly on human teaching.

You do error in thinking that i am taught by humans, yes many humans have taught me, and i have heard many preachers teach from the Bible, and all of what i learned was rubbish, and not the Truth, What i know, and who taught me, is Jesus and the Holy Ghost, They have revealed many things to me, things that have already come to pass, and many things that will yet happen in my lifetime. What i know is from them, not humans, nor from my own misguided understanding, because i am flesh and live in the flesh, therefore desire fleshly things, even my thinking is of the flesh, But, what i teach, is not from me, nor my flesh, but is from God Himself, Therefore if you do not believe me, you do not believe Him, for it is He that has revealed many things to me, Not that i am any better then any one of you reading this now, for i am nothing, but He chose me to teach His Truths, and i have not failed in that aspect. what i teach is from Him, and what i teach does not contradict His Words whatsoever, and they are His Words, the Holy Ghost saw to it, that they who were inspired of God, would write only those things that were from Him and not from the person who wrote it. Just as 99% of everything i teach, is not mine, but was His, what He told me. And lo i asked Him, during one of our conversations " Lord, did you create the Earth in 6 days " He said to me " What does Scriptures say?" i said, Yes Scriptures teach that God created the Earth in 6 days, He then told me " then that believe ". Many many things He has revealed unto me, whatsoever i asked, He revealed to me. and those things is what i teach, except for those things that He told me not to reveal, these i do not reveal, for it is not time to reveal them.

You're dealing with writings that were written by humans and is now being interpreted by humans, yet you claim your understanding of scripture is no different than God's understanding of scripture. To be quite honest, that comes off as incredibly arrogant!

It would be incredibly arrogant, if i said { I have come up with this Truths } Then it would be arrogant, but i have clearly gave credit where credit is due, and clearly have said what i teach does not come from me, but comes from Christ, and in doing so, i have put myself in a position to be mocked and laughed at, and called all sorts of names. Truthfully it would have been easier to say that it all came from me, then to say, i communicate with Jesus Himself, making me look like the fool in a generation that does not believe Christ talks to people any more. But lo, if i said from me, that is a lie, and Rev 21;8 says all liars will burn in the lake of fire and brimstone, therefore i tell the Truth, that Christ is what teaches what i teach, for it is He who has told me these things, and they are True. It is not my fault nor His, that people in the last day gerenation do not believe, How is it though there are a few that knows the Masters voice, and knows the Truth when they hear it. For the few sheep know their Masters voice.

It always makes me wonder how you'd respond if somebody told you that Jesus was literally a door made out of a vine because that's what the Bible teaches and since the Bible was dictated by God, it can't be in error! Would you not pass on your human understanding that these passages are not factual though they still contain truth -- just as many of us keep explaining to you about Genesis 1 and 2?

Should i then believe you and them, which would be contrary to what Christ told me ? God forbid. Many things Jesus told me, that i could hardly bare to swallow, in some situations because of my fears, doubts, and guilt, i could not hear it. And it was hid from me, only to be later revealed to me, in remembering what He said.
Do you then think i believe the Bible in every aspect to be literal? Nay, i do not believe this at all, there were many parables in the Bible, many analogies in the Bible, many Symbolism in the Bible. Do i then think Jesus was a loaf of Bread, because He said, I am the Bread. No. but what i know of Scriptures is not based on my interpretation as you are assuming they are, they are His, and they are Truth, and they are Right. If then they are His, and not mine, it is not my interpretations, but His. These i teach, not mine own interpretations, but what He tells me, what He told me, what He taught me.
If i teach things that is not from Him, and if a say things are from Him, yet are they from me, then i will suffer a greater damnation then many many others. For i would be a false teacher, a false prophet, not furthering the Kingdom of God, but hindering it, keeping people from knowing the Truth, i assure you if i was doing this thing, and causing brothers and sisters to fall away from the Grace of God, the He would take me out of this world, He would prevent me from teaching things that were not from Him, and i teach these things in His Name, for at the end of each post i say In His Holy and precious Name, Jesus Christ. If what i teach is wrong, then i am a witness against my own self, and will not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, but i have been teaching what i teach, well since i was a child, hearing HIs voice, and have had a website up since 1994, still there, and on occasion, one of the few that are chosen will write me something like" Its about time someone out there is teaching the Truth, God Bless you DiscipleDave " i would then write back and inform them, thank me not, for i have only written what He told me too, thank Him.
If what i teach is not contrary to Scriptures then believe. For i will tell you the Truth, if what you believe, contradicts even one verse in the Bible, then what you believe is WRONG. Therefore i challenge anyone, to show me ANY SCRIPTURES that contradicts what i teach, and then i shall also be WRONG. But if what i teach comes from God, then should you not believe it.

It is written to be of one mind, we are many minds because of interpretations, this is not of God but of the devil. What i teach is the Truth and it is from God Himself. You either believe it or you don't, it is that simple. Those who are numbered among those who are Christs will believe, those who are not numbered among those who are Christs will not believe.

In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ

DiscipleDave

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[DiscipleDave]

[/size][/color]You are wrong. The idea that the 6 days are not literal is far from limited to this generation.

Oh, what documents prior to this generation states that did not believe the Earth was created in 6 days ? Because 80 years ago there was no doubts to the creation story, the doubts only arised when scientist were able to ( so they say ) accurately age things. So i am curious to read what document prior to 80 years ago said or even implied that Genesis did not happen exactly as it says it did? Please educate me.

In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ
DiscipleDave
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[Melethiel]

Oh, what documents prior to this generation states that did not believe the Earth was created in 6 days ? Because 80 years ago there was no doubts to the creation story, the doubts only arised when scientist were able to ( so they say ) accurately age things. So i am curious to read what document prior to 80 years ago said or even implied that Genesis did not happen exactly as it says it did? Please educate me.

In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ
DiscipleDave
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St. Augustine, On Genesis

http://www.holycross.edu/departments/religiousstudies/alaffey/Augustine-Genesis.htm

 

[keyarch]

Does the Bible clearly say God made the Earth in 6 days, Yes or No ?????? Do you believe He did or didn't ?

Just for clarification, not all "Creationist" who believe in the Word of God as true and inerrant interpret Genesis 1 as you apparently do.

I believe a more correct translation of the original "scripture", without the bias of the YEC doctrine, reveals that the universe and the planet (foundations covered with waters) existed prior to the events of the 6 days which started with "light".

The ONLY way to have it say anything else is to add words to passages like Gen. 1:16 and Exodus 20:11 to make them say something different than they do.

I too believe that scripture tells us that the events of the creation week happened some 6,000 years ago, but that shouldn't be joined with the creation of the universe or the primitive planet.

It would be correct to contend that scripture says God created all the original biology and brought forth land from below the waters some 6,000 years ago, but to associate that with the universe is going to create some problems for you, both scripturally and by general revelation.

 

[DiscipleDave]

Just for clarification, not all "Creationist" who believe in the Word of God as true and inerrant interpret Genesis 1 as you apparently do.

Well let me address one thing here, i believe Genesis 1 is in need of no interpretation, mine, yours or theirs. i believe what it says, therefore it is not my interpretations, but i merely beleive it. IF Genesis says He created the Earth in 6 days, i believe that, not intepreting that, i believe it, because that is what it says, no interpretation needed.

I believe a more correct translation of the original "scripture", without the bias of the YEC doctrine, reveals that the universe and the planet (foundations covered with waters) existed prior

to the events of the 6 days which started with "light".

You do well in saying " I believe " and all of us have a right to believe whatsoever we will believe, and i choose to beleive Scriptures, and they clearly teach that God created the Earth in 6 days, and notice i am only discussing the Earth, and not the Universe.

The ONLY way to have it say anything else is to add words to passages like Gen. 1:16 and Exodus 20:11 to make them say something different than they do.

i do not know what you are saying here, if then you are referring to when the Universe was created then that is yet another topic, but what i am discussing right now is this planet, the planet we call Earth, not the milky way, or other galaxies, or the universe or the stars, but the Earth.

I too believe that scripture tells us that the events of the creation week happened some 6,000 years ago, but that shouldn't be joined with the creation of the universe or the primitive planet.

i was with you all the way up to the point you said " or the primitive planet " i have not joined the creation of the universe with the creation of the planet, nor have i taught this unTruth, If then you can recieve it, then receive it = The universe was here prior to the Earth being created some 6 to 13 thousand years ago. If you will hear it, then hear it, if not, then not. But this is not what i have been discussing, i have been discussing the Earth being created in 6 days, as does Scriptures teach.

It would be correct to contend that scripture says God created all the original biology and brought forth land from below the waters some 6,000 years ago, but to associate that with the universe is going to create some problems for you, both scripturally and by general revelation.

And i have not associated the universe with the creation of the planet in any of my teachings, for that teachings would then not be True, i clearly have taught and still teach the Earth was created in 6 days, exactly as He said He did. This then is what i teach, and have not joined that teaching with the creation of the universe.

In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ
DiscipleDave
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