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crawfish

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Dave:

The implication of your theology, where God has created physical evidence that contradicts His word, is that God is trying to "trick" us. Since we are still finding new stars, as their light travels millions or billions of light-years into our perspective, God is obviously still actively working to keep up the falsehood.

Is this really what you think?
 
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SuperSaint4GodDBZStyle

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I admit there are several arguements here. I am also a creationist and defend God's word about Creation. Let's face it, we're gonna keep debating and debating. Discussing and discussing our origins and formation of the earth and the universe. But I tell you the truth. When the Lord Jesus comes we're gonna see who is right. The Word of God, not evolutionistic thinking. That's why the Bible says, "TRUST IN THE LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto THINE OWN UNDERSTANDING, In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Be not wise in thine own eyes; fear the Lord, and depart from evil." --Proverbs 3:5-7
 
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DiscipleDave

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And how do we have so much diversity of life on Earth, if 90% of all life went extinct without evolution? In other words, if 90% of the Earth's "kinds" went extinct, how did we get them back?

Some, of every kind survived. Do you not believe that a single cell created all life on this planet ? Is this not your belief.
Something happened on the Earth that was catostrophic, killing 90% of all life on the planet, God saw too it that the 10% remaining would be of every kind of animal and plant that He so desired to remain. Flood the entire Earth, yet saved back Noah and Family and all the animals that He so desired, If He did this then, Why would you think He would not do this with others catastrophies? Not everything was written in the Words of God. We only have one incident (WRITTEN ) where He saved the animals from extinction, this DOES NOT MEAN, that He did not do this more then Once.

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DiscipleDave

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Carbon 14 isn't used to date the Earth. It only can date up to 50,000 years. There are numerous other forms of radiometric dating that are used to date the Earth. Meteorites that have hit the Earth are what are dated to 4.5 billion years old. You might have a point about 1 method of dating the Earth being error prone, if that's all that was used. But there is countless evidence attesting to the old age of the Earth. To claim that every field of science is wrong is absurd.

And you have a bigger problem to deal with when it comes to the age of the universe. We can observe stars 13 billion light years away.

Are you then saying all the methods are correct, and can't be wrong? remember not to long ago, the World was flat, and you were mocked if you said differently, And Lo, they had their evidence that it was flat. Here is what i see, people judge things that they see, as to how old it is. We estimate how old something is, by what we see with our eyes. Is it not written:

Jn:7:24: Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Yet Scientists are nortorious for doing just that, They can ONLY judge according to what they see, They base age of things, according to what they have seen, what is presented to them TODAY.

Here then is a righteous Judgement, i believe God made the EArth in 6 days, because that is what He said He did, and this i believe. They said the Grand Canyon took millions of years for the Colorado River to carve out the canyons. We now are forced to reexamine that theory, because Canyons like our Grand Canyon have been formed in a matter of Days, when it flooded. So then Scientist based how long the Grand Canyon took, based solely on what they see TODAY, and how much is being eroded away by the Colorado TODAY, They are not thinking about the Great Flood that happened 4000 years ago, and all that water poured off the United States, mostly using that canal, which we call today the Grand Canyon, which was actually made in a matter of a week. So then what actually took a week, by LOOKING at the physical evidence, we determine it took millions of years for the Colorado to carve out that huge canyon, Therefore they base their belief solely on what they see TODAY.
An Astroid hits the Earth 5000 years ago, we see that impact crator, and say it happened 20 millions years ago, How have they determined that age, this is what i am saying is wrong, Yes All methods that they use to determine the age of the impact crator is in fact wrong, and this is Glorious in my eyes, because God has hidden these things from them, because they refuse to merely believe the Truth in FAith, without needing the proof. Therefore in God's Great Wisdom, He has hid these things from them who desire Proof.

Mk:8:12: And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation.

Why do Scientist seek after evidence which is contrary to Scriptures. Because of this, their eyes are hidden from the Truth, because they lack Faith.

Which is better, a person who merely believes the Earth was created in 6 days, because that is what the Words of God teach, and they need no proof of it, but believe. Or a person who, because of what all the humans say about the EArth, do not believe what the Words of God say, but come up with reason to excuse their actions of not believing it, ie, it is a poem, it is alogorical, it is just a story and not the Truth, or whatever else they come up with so that they feel justified by not believing what the Words of God teach. These have altogether believed the humans over what the Words of God teach. Which of them therefore is approved of God, Those who merely believe by Faith, or those who doubt because of the physical evidence that they think is evidence?

IN His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ
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DiscipleDave

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DiscipleDave said >>> My point is this, what people say is a billion year marking on the earth, may not be billions of years at all, but may be 5000 years old. <<<

Gluadys replied >>> And if you can provide evidence of this, you would be a candidate for a Nobel Prize. Meanwhile, there is no reason not to go with the estimate current data suggests. <<<

Aside from the Fact that the current data is contrary to the Words of God, of coarse. But if you believe the Words of God are wrong then it really doesn't matter what one chooses to believe does it?

DiscipleDave said >>>> not to mention the air was entirely different then it is now, 4000 years ago, <<<<

Gluadys replied >>>> Scripture doesn't tell you that. Science doesn't tell you that. What makes you think that is true? <<<<

Both Scriptures and Science teaches us that the air was different. Scriptures teach that people lived to be close to 1000 years old, we do not do that now, we would be blessed to live to be 100 years old, something was definately different then compared to now. Science teaches us that prior to 4000 years ago, grasshopper fossils were two feet long, Cat tails were 40 feet high, animals ( not all ) grew much longer, plants ( not all, grew much bigger ) Scientist also know that there was more oxygen in the air prior to 4000 years ago.
So Scripturally and Scientifically, the air was different then, than it is now.

IN His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ
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DiscipleDave

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DiscipleDave said >>>> Can God create a Tree, by merely saying "Tree" ? Yes or no ?<<<<

Mallon replied >>> Sure. But if God can create a tree merely by speaking the words, then surely he can create a fully-functional universe without having to inject signs of ageing, too. But, as you admit, He did. According to you, He created trees with growth rings. So the question is: "Why?" Surely God could have created perfect trees with but one growth ring.<<<<

My point is, if God can create a full grown Tree, by His mere Words, to which you agree that He can, Why is it such a hard thing to believe that God created the Earth, EXACTLY, as His Words said He did, why the doubts?

DiscipleDave said >>> Give me a break, i choose to believe the Words of God <<<

Mallon replied >>> Yeah. Everything except Matthew 7:1, right? <<<

i believe Matthew 7:1 to the fullest, what have i said that makes you believe that i do not ????

We are not to judge unrighteously, this is True for the same merit you judge, shall be judged against you, This does not mean one should not judge.

Jn:7:24: Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

and

1Cor:6:2: Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

More on Judging can be found at this website:
http://members.aol.com/discipledave/book/Judge.html

IN His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ
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Melethiel

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Both Scriptures and Science teaches us that the air was different. Scriptures teach that people lived to be close to 1000 years old, we do not do that now, we would be blessed to live to be 100 years old, something was definately different then compared to now. Science teaches us that prior to 4000 years ago, grasshopper fossils were two feet long, Cat tails were 40 feet high, animals ( not all ) grew much longer, plants ( not all, grew much bigger ) Scientist also know that there was more oxygen in the air prior to 4000 years ago.
So Scripturally and Scientifically, the air was different then, than it is now.

WHY and HOW would a different atmospheric makeup cause these inflated numbers? Be specific.
 
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DiscipleDave

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Dave:

The implication of your theology, where God has created physical evidence that contradicts His word, is that God is trying to "trick" us. Since we are still finding new stars, as their light travels millions or billions of light-years into our perspective, God is obviously still actively working to keep up the falsehood.

Is this really what you think?

i believe what His Words teach, if then His Words teach He created the Earth in 6 days, this is what i believe, and through Faith i believe it, Who am i, or who are you to question Him? So then you question as to WHY, He would do such a thing, What is that to Him, if you question Why He does what He does, it is enough to merely believe He did what He said He did, then to question the reason to WHY HE DID IT. Leave it to this generation of the last Days to question Him, and His reasonings behind such things.
i believe God created the Earth in 6 days, Do you know why i believe this, because it is what His Words said He did. i do not question Him, nor His judgements, i leave that to this generation of the people of the last days.
What does it matter WHY He created the EArth the way He did, it is enough to merely believe that He did, then to question the almighty God and what He says.

IN His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ
DiscipleDave
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DiscipleDave

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DiscipleDave said >>>> Both Scriptures and Science teaches us that the air was different. Scriptures teach that people lived to be close to 1000 years old, we do not do that now, we would be blessed to live to be 100 years old, something was definately different then compared to now. Science teaches us that prior to 4000 years ago, grasshopper fossils were two feet long, Cat tails were 40 feet high, animals ( not all ) grew much longer, plants ( not all, grew much bigger ) Scientist also know that there was more oxygen in the air prior to 4000 years ago.
So Scripturally and Scientifically, the air was different then, than it is now. <<<<


WHY and HOW would a different atmospheric makeup cause these inflated numbers? Be specific.

When a person goes to the hospital with breathing difficulties, what is the first thing they do? They give them a mask so they breath pure oxygen. If then the all the air we breath was pure oxygen, we would be healthier, therefore would live longer.
i know not the atmospheric makeup of the air prior to 4000 years was, but i do know this, it was not what we have now, therefore it WAS different, How it was different, i know not, but i know it WAS different.

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Mallon

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Are you then saying all the methods are correct, and can't be wrong? remember not to long ago, the World was flat, and you were mocked if you said differently, And Lo, they had their evidence that it was flat.
And do you know what that evidence was, Dave?

THE HOLY BIBLE.

Cursed is he who does not believe what the Bible clearly says!
 
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Melethiel

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When a person goes to the hospital with breathing difficulties, what is the first thing they do? They give them a mask so they breath pure oxygen. If then the all the air we breath was pure oxygen, we would be healthier, therefore would live longer.

There are so many problems with this statement. One is that what is the cure for one malady is not the solution to all problems. Do you go around just taking penicillin because they give it to some people who go to the hospital with difficulties?
Oxygen is a very toxic compound. A higher oxygen concentration, instead of causing people to be healthier, would cause numerous problems.
 
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Mallon

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My point is, if God can create a full grown Tree, by His mere Words, to which you agree that He can, Why is it such a hard thing to believe that God created the Earth, EXACTLY, as His Words said He did, why the doubts?
Because Romans 1:20 tells us that God's creation can be trusted to tell us about His invisible qualities. And if God created the world with false history, then the only quality I can garner from that is 'misleading'!
Rather, because I cannot hold God in such a light, I must trust that the multiple attestation of His creation as to the age of the universe is correct. And I interpret Genesis differently as a result. God would sooner speak metaphor through words than isotopes and bones.

i believe Matthew 7:1 to the fullest, what have i said that makes you believe that i do not ????
Your self-righteous, condescending attitude and doomsday threats towards your fellow sibblings in Christ.
 
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DiscipleDave

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Originally Posted by DiscipleDave
Are you then saying all the methods are correct, and can't be wrong? remember not to long ago, the World was flat, and you were mocked if you said differently, And Lo, they had their evidence that it was flat.

And do you know what that evidence was, Dave?

THE HOLY BIBLE.

Cursed is he who does not believe what the Bible clearly says!

Does the Bible clearly say God made the Earth in 6 days, Yes or No ?????? Do you believe He did or didn't ?

You do error in saying that evidence that the world was flat, came from the HOLY BIBLE, for it was the HOLY BIBLE that proved the Earth was not flat, but that it was round. Scientists of those days said it was flat, yet Scriptures indicate that it was round. If then you believe Scriptures gave them the evidence that the earth was flat, what Scriptures did that?

IN His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ
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DiscipleDave

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There are so many problems with this statement. One is that what is the cure for one malady is not the solution to all problems. Do you go around just taking penicillin because they give it to some people who go to the hospital with difficulties?
Oxygen is a very toxic compound. A higher oxygen concentration, instead of causing people to be healthier, would cause numerous problems.

Did i say, it would cure them, tell me? Why then are you putting words into my mouth? i never said by giving them oxygen, it would cure them, i merely said, what is a factual Truth, which until now, did not think it needed to be debated. those who come into a hospital with breathing difficulties, will be put on oxygen, This is what i said and is the Truth, are you then saying, it is not the Truth?
Did i say give them higher oxygen concerntration, did i give a specific amount of oxygen? i said those who are having difficulty breathing are put on oxygen, i did not say how much, they were given, or how little they were given, why then are you saying this? Have i did something to offend you ? Have i attacked you in any way whatsoever?

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Melethiel

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If those who are having breathing maladies are simply put on oxygen, and you are not inferring any difference in concentration, then what relevance does it have to my question? You were the one who first brought it up. Why would a higher oxygen concentration cause people to live longer?
 
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DiscipleDave

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DiscipleDave said:

When a person goes to the hospital with breathing difficulties, what is the first thing they do? They give them a mask so they breath pure oxygen. If then the all the air we breath was pure oxygen, we would be healthier, therefore would live longer.

Melethiel replied:::

There are so many problems with this statement. One is that what is the cure for one malady is not the solution to all problems.

Please be specific, you say there are so many problems with the statement that i have made, please inform me of them, so i will not repeat them again, thank you.

The statement i said is True:

When a person goes to the hospital with breathing difficulties, what is the first thing they do? They give them a mask so they breath pure oxygen. ( NOTE, did not say it would cure them, only saying that is what they do ) If then the all the air we breath was pure oxygen, we would be healthier, therefore would live longer.

So then please inform me of the so many problems with that statement, Thanks.

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crawfish

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i believe what His Words teach, if then His Words teach He created the Earth in 6 days, this is what i believe, and through Faith i believe it, Who am i, or who are you to question Him? So then you question as to WHY, He would do such a thing, What is that to Him, if you question Why He does what He does, it is enough to merely believe He did what He said He did, then to question the reason to WHY HE DID IT. Leave it to this generation of the last Days to question Him, and His reasonings behind such things.
i believe God created the Earth in 6 days, Do you know why i believe this, because it is what His Words said He did. i do not question Him, nor His judgements, i leave that to this generation of the people of the last days.
What does it matter WHY He created the EArth the way He did, it is enough to merely believe that He did, then to question the almighty God and what He says.

IN His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ
DiscipleDave
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So, you are saying that God is actively and intentionally trying to deceive us. He's making us make a choice - "choose between my words or what you see with your own eyes".

This certainly isn't the idea of God I get by reading the Bible. Romans 1:20 above is certainly a good example of this. I think you're limiting God by keeping His word, and His creation, in a perspective you can get your mind around. Both are greater than all of us.
 
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Melethiel

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I already have. I do not feel like repeating myself. Here is a brief recap:

1. Putting a person with breathing difficulties on O2 is producing a temporary solution, if not a cure. The same argument can be made for various drugs, which while helpful in certain cases, are deadly in others. As such, this statement is completely irrelevant to the question, which is "Why would a higher atmospheric O2 concentration cause people to live longer?"
2. Oxygen is in fact quite toxic. A higher O2 concentration would cause many problems, not make people healthier.
 
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DiscipleDave

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If those who are having breathing maladies are simply put on oxygen, and you are not inferring any difference in concentration, then what relevance does it have to my question? You were the one who first brought it up. Why would a higher oxygen concentration cause people to live longer?

strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. Here is the Truth, and even your science teaches this, There was more oxygen in the air prior to 4000 years ago, To this you disagreed, by saying how would that make people live longer, i then told you the benefits of oxygen, that is what is used in hospitals when a person is having breathing difficulties, this statement was then blown way out of purportion. Tell me then, Why does a doctor or nurse have someone put on oxygen? This very reason that they are, is what i was making an attempt to tell you, IT IS HEALTHY. Science teaches that there was more oxygen then compared to how much is now, therefore, it is not the same air that we have now, this is what we were discussing was it not? i only used the oxygen in the hospital as an example. That it is used to help ones health. Do you or do you not agree with that?

IN His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ
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