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Jesus through Mary

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WarriorAngel

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How can you have Him any other way??

You have Him ONLY because Mary said 'Yes.'

Because of Mary's submission you have;
Christ...
Which in turn means you have;
Graces,
Hope in entering Heaven,
Forgiveness of sins,
The Father,
The Holy Spirit,
And Life ever lasting.

Yes, you have al of this through and from Christ....

BUT you would not have any of this without Mary.

God ordained it all so, since the beginning, that mankind would share all things in hope through Christ...

But in order to become man, God Himself choose His Daughter from the start.

He choose to Create Her for great things. For nothing is greater than the giving of Himself to man.

This is why Mary is our advocate, our mediatrix, our co-redeemer...

Because it was through her help, we have Jesus at all.

God Bless.


 

WarriorAngel

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No matter what, Mary always points us to Jesus. Thanks Warrior Angel for this thread. HUGS
:hug: Thank you D'Ann.

I believe our parental love follows us always.
Jesus is always the direction Mary points us to. :thumbsup:

She never wants us to lose sight of this.

WE love Mary, and she prays for us to love her Son in complete submission.

NOT an easy task...but one we find easier when we see HER role modelship.

Bless you!!! :groupray:
 
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IamAdopted

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How can you have Him any other way??

You have Him ONLY because Mary said 'Yes.'

Because of Mary's submission you have;
Christ...
Which in turn means you have;
Graces,
Hope in entering Heaven,
Forgiveness of sins,
The Father,
The Holy Spirit,
And Life ever lasting.

Yes, you have al of this through and from Christ....

BUT you would not have any of this without Mary.

God ordained it all so, since the beginning, that mankind would share all things in hope through Christ...

But in order to become man, God Himself choose His Daughter from the start.

He choose to Create Her for great things. For nothing is greater than the giving of Himself to man.

This is why Mary is our advocate, our mediatrix, our co-redeemer...

Because it was through her help, we have Jesus at all.

God Bless.


Actually it is God through Jesus and there is no other way.. For God can make a way where there doesn't seem to be a way.. Jesus being God became man that He could take the sins of the whole world upon Him.. He that knew no sin became sin for us.. It is all about God through Jesus and the Holy Spirit. For Mary didn't say yes.. She was predestined.. Just as Judas Iscariot was.. :)
 
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WarriorAngel

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Actually it is God through Jesus and there is no other way.. For God can make a way where there doesn't seem to be a way.. Jesus being God became man that He could take the sins of the whole world upon Him.. He that knew no sin became sin for us.. It is all about God through Jesus and the Holy Spirit. For Mary didn't say yes.. She was predestined.. Just as Judas Iscariot was.. :)


The ONLY presdestination was Her being made for the Motherhood of Christ.
Her submission was hers alone.
God also would not do it any other way...but that which HE prophecied.

If He had decided to do it another way it could mean two things;
He was unable to know the future.
He was incapable of fulfilling His Word if He did not do it as He knew it would be as foretold.

Mary was NOT forced...
IT was the GRACE within her that led her to COMPLY.

WHO IS MY MOTHER??
My Mother is the ONE who does the WILL of my Father....
[Remember those words? I am sure you remember them. For some that verse is read completely different than it originally meant.]
ANYWAY, that verse alone shows us Christ was speaking of OUR FREE WILL.

Judas had free will.......
Christ said He Himself could be blasphemed and be forgiven...
It was the denial in THAT forgiveness that led Judas to commit suicide....
Which blasphemed the Holy Spirit.

Judas made his own choice.

Are you telling me that every time YOU sin, God made you do it??
 
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IamAdopted

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The ONLY presdestination was Her being made for the Motherhood of Christ.
Her submission was hers alone.
God also would not do it any other way...but that which HE prophecied.

If He had decided to do it another way it could mean two things;
He was unable to know the future.
He was incapable of fulfilling His Word if He did not do it as He knew it would be as foretold.

Mary was NOT forced...
IT was the GRACE within her that led her to COMPLY.

WHO IS MY MOTHER??
My Mother is the ONE who does the WILL of my Father....
[Remember those words? I am sure you remember them. For some that verse is read completely different than it originally meant.]
ANYWAY, that verse alone shows us Christ was speaking of OUR FREE WILL.

Judas had free will.......
Christ said He Himself could be blasphemed and be forgiven...
It was the denial in THAT forgiveness that led Judas to commit suicide....
Which blasphemed the Holy Spirit.

Judas made his own choice.

Are you telling me that every time YOU sin, God made you do it??
She still does not have any titles other than the earthly Mother of The Messiah.. For she was as human as you and I are and for all of us that do the will of the Father are Jesus brothers sisters and mothers.. The only one worthy enough to have any tilte is God.. For it is with HIm that all things are possible..
 
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PassthePeace1

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Actually it is God through Jesus and there is no other way.. For God can make a way where there doesn't seem to be a way.. Jesus being God became man that He could take the sins of the whole world upon Him.. He that knew no sin became sin for us.. It is all about God through Jesus and the Holy Spirit. For Mary didn't say yes.. She was predestined.. Just as Judas Iscariot was.. :)

How can God come thru Jesus, when Jesus is God? :confused:
 
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Aibrean

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I would like the passage where Mary said "Yes".

From Luke 1:26-38:

Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent by God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. And having come in, the angel said to her, “Rejoice, highly favored one, the Lord is with you; blessed are you among women!”
But when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and considered what manner of greeting this was. Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name JESUS. He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.” Then Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I do not know a man?” And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God. Now indeed, Elizabeth your relative has also conceived a son in her old age; and this is now the sixth month for her who was called barren. For with God nothing will be impossible.” Then Mary said, “Behold the maidservant of the Lord! Let it be to me according to your word.” And the angel departed from her.

This sounds more of like a "this is what God is doing because of your devotion" from the angel and Mary was saying thank you.

Jesus came so there IS no intercession. It's God through Jesus who are one and separate. While she played an important role, Mary shouldn't be exalted to the same level as God or Jesus.
 
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IamAdopted

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How can God come thru Jesus, when Jesus is God? :confused:
Jesus is the second in the Godhead.. He is the only begotten son of the Most high God.. We have the Holy Spirit also.. Do you think that Jesus was praying to Himself as He sweat drops of blood? Do you think that when Jesus tells us that His father is greater than He that He just said this because He wanted to?
 
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Benedicta00

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http://www.ewtn.com/library/Montfort/TRUEDEVO.HTM
1. Mary's part in the Incarnation

14. With the whole Church I acknowledge that Mary, being a mere creature fashioned by the hands of God is, compared to his infinite majesty, less than an atom, or rather is simply nothing, since he alone can say, "I am he who is". Consequently, this great Lord, who is ever independent and self-sufficient, never had and does not now have any absolute need of the Blessed Virgin for the accomplishment of his will and the manifestation of his glory. To do all things he has only to will them.

15. However, I declare that, considering things as they are, because God has decided to begin and accomplish his greatest works through the Blessed Virgin ever since he created her, we can safely believe that he will not change his plan in the time to come, for he is God and therefore does not change in his thoughts or his way of acting.

16. God the Father gave his only Son to the world only through Mary. Whatever desires the patriarchs may have cherished, whatever entreaties the prophets and saints of the Old Law may have had for 4,000 years to obtain that treasure, it was Mary alone who merited it and found grace before God by the power of her prayers and the perfection of her virtues. "The world being unworthy," said Saint Augustine, "to receive the Son of God directly from the hands of the Father, he gave his Son to Mary for the world to receive him from her."

The Son of God became man for our salvation but only in Mary and through Mary.

God the Holy Spirit formed Jesus Christ in Mary but only after having asked her consent through one of the chief ministers of his court.

17. God the Father imparted to Mary his fruitfulness as far as a mere creature was capable of receiving it, to enable her to bring forth his Son and all the members of his mystical body.

18. God the Son came into her virginal womb as a new Adam into his earthly paradise, to take his delight there and produce hidden wonders of grace.

God-made-man found freedom in imprisoning himself in her womb. He displayed power in allowing himself to be borne by this young maiden. He found his glory and that of his Father in hiding his splendours from all creatures here below and revealing them only to Mary. He glorified his independence and his majesty in depending upon this lovable virgin in his conception, his birth, his presentation in the temple, and in the thirty years of his hidden life. Even at his death she had to be present so that he might be united with her in one sacrifice and be immolated with her consent to the eternal Father, just as formerly Isaac was offered in sacrifice by Abraham when he accepted the will of God. It was Mary who nursed him, fed him, cared for him, reared him, and sacrificed him for us.

The Holy Spirit could not leave such wonderful and inconceivable dependence of God unmentioned in the Gospel, though he concealed almost all the wonderful things that Wisdom Incarnate did during his hidden life in order to bring home to us its infinite value and glory. Jesus gave more glory to God his Father by submitting to his Mother for thirty years than he would have given him had he converted the whole world by working the greatest miracles. How highly then do we glorify God when to please him we submit ourselves to Mary, taking Jesus as our sole model.

19. If we examine closely the remainder of the life of Jesus Christ, we see that he chose to begin his miracles through Mary. It was by her word that he sanctified Saint John the Baptist in the womb of his mother, Saint Elizabeth; no sooner had Mary spoken than John was sanctified. This was his first and greatest miracle of grace. At the wedding in Cana he changed water into wine at her humble prayer, and this was his first miracle in the order of nature. He began and continued his miracles through Mary and he will continue them through her until the end of time.

20. God the Holy Spirit, who does not produce any divine person, became fruitful through Mary whom he espoused. It was with her, in her and of her that he produced his masterpiece, God-made-man, and that he produces every day until the end of the world the members of the body of this adorable Head. For this reason the more he finds Mary his dear and inseparable spouse in a soul the more powerful and effective he becomes in producing Jesus Christ in that soul and that soul in Jesus Christ.

21. This does not mean that the Blessed Virgin confers on the Holy Spirit a fruitfulness which he does not already possess. Being God, he has the ability to produce just like the Father and the Son, although he does not use this power and so does not produce another divine person. But it does mean that the Holy Spirit chose to make use of our Blessed Lady, although he had no absolute need of her, in order to become actively fruitful in producing Jesus Christ and his members in her and by her. This is a mystery of grace unknown even to many of the most learned and spiritual of Christians.
:)
 
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PassthePeace1

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Jesus is the second in the Godhead.. He is the only begotten son of the Most high God.. We have the Holy Spirit also.. Do you think that Jesus was praying to Himself as He sweat drops of blood? Do you think that when Jesus tells us that His father is greater than He that He just said this because He wanted to?

Actually, I do have a proper understanding of the Trinity. Do you? Aren't you the one who said, that Mary could be the Mother of God...because that would mean...she would have to have had the Trinity in her womb? I remember someone posting something to that effect.....was it you?
 
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repentant

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I would like the passage where Mary said "Yes".

From Luke 1:26-38:

Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent by God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. And having come in, the angel said to her, “Rejoice, highly favored one, the Lord is with you; blessed are you among women!”
But when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and considered what manner of greeting this was. Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name JESUS. He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.” Then Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I do not know a man?” And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God. Now indeed, Elizabeth your relative has also conceived a son in her old age; and this is now the sixth month for her who was called barren. For with God nothing will be impossible.” Then Mary said, “Behold the maidservant of the Lord! Let it be to me according to your word.” And the angel departed from her.

This sounds more of like a "this is what God is doing because of your devotion" from the angel and Mary was saying thank you.

Jesus came so there IS no intercession. It's God through Jesus who are one and separate. While she played an important role, Mary shouldn't be exalted to the same level as God or Jesus.


Let it be to me according to your word.” And the angel departed from her

Here is the yes. She said, "Let it be to me." Not "I have no choice, do what you want".. She went along with God's plan and God's Will. You act like because Gabriel told her what God's plan was, that she had no say in it.

God's will for ALL mankind is to believe in His Son, and give us eternal life. Yet millions, no billions of people in history have not, and do not go along with God's Will, do they?

If someone of authority comes to you and says, "here's what's going to happen..you are going to take this gun, and shoot so and so person." Just because the person is telling you to do it, does it mean you can't say no?

Allthough sometimes I must admit that the Catholics sometimes go a little too far as far as devotion to Mary is concerned, I still wonder how Protestants can believe that God took away Mary's free will in this instance..

She said yes, and obeyed people..
 
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HisKid1973

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Let it be to me according to your word.” And the angel departed from her

Here is the yes. She said, "Let it be to me." Not "I have no choice, do what you want".. She went along with God's plan and God's Will. You act like because Gabriel told her what God's plan was, that she had no say in it.

God's will for ALL mankind is to believe in His Son, and give us eternal life. Yet millions, no billions of people in history have not, and do not go along with God's Will, do they?

If someone of authority comes to you and says, "here's what's going to happen..you are going to take this gun, and shoot so and so person." Just because the person is telling you to do it, does it mean you can't say no?

Allthough sometimes I must admit that the Catholics sometimes go a little too far as far as devotion to Mary is concerned, I still wonder how Protestants can believe that God took away Mary's free will in this instance..

She said yes, and obeyed people..

I just can't picture anyone saying "no" given the situation..Do you think God had a back up plan if she refused? I live in a strong Italian catholic area so Yes, I agree it is way over done..All the statues in the yards here are all Mary only..If you talk about faith to catholic neighbors it is Mary this, Mary that..And the papers have requests printed that if you pray these certain prayers and publish them Mary will get them answered, like it is some sure fire formula...It's Jesus..That's how we are given the example in the sacred scriptures..peace..kim
 
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Aibrean

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I'm not saying she didn't have free will. But given the situation of her being so devoted to God and humble before Him, I don't think this was a yes or no thing for her. If someone asked it of me I could only hope that it was as they said.

The angel told her God' plan and she welcomed it.

Matthew 1:22:
All this took place to fulfill what the Lord has spoken by the prophet.

[SIZE=-1]Isaiah 7:14-17
[/SIZE][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good. For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings. [/FONT]

I am sure she knew the prophecy being Jewish and was humbled that God chose her, but like I said...I don't think "no" ever crossed her mind. She was just glad to be His servant and chosen to be the fulfiller of His word. My interpretation of "let it be" is that she is saying that she can only hope that it's as the angel said.

Luke 1:45
And blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfillment of what was spoken to her from the Lord.
 
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IamAdopted

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Actually, I do have a proper understanding of the Trinity. Do you? Aren't you the one who said, that Mary could be the Mother of God...because that would mean...she would have to have had the Trinity in her womb? I remember someone posting something to that effect.....was it you?
Jesus was the Word who became flesh.. God the Father is Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth.. God the Father was never born. He has never had a mother..The Holy Spirit is also God and He too has never had a mother.. Only Christ who was before He came had a mother.. He is our Messiah..
 
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Iollain

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How can you have Him any other way??

You have Him ONLY because Mary said 'Yes.'

Because of Mary's submission you have;
Christ...
Which in turn means you have;
Graces,
Hope in entering Heaven,
Forgiveness of sins,
The Father,
The Holy Spirit,
And Life ever lasting.

Yes, you have al of this through and from Christ....

BUT you would not have any of this without Mary.

God ordained it all so, since the beginning, that mankind would share all things in hope through Christ...

But in order to become man, God Himself choose His Daughter from the start.

He choose to Create Her for great things. For nothing is greater than the giving of Himself to man.

This is why Mary is our advocate, our mediatrix, our co-redeemer...

Because it was through her help, we have Jesus at all.

God Bless.



Sure, now take that little bit of backwards reasoning, and add the.........because of this, Mary is NOW doing this.

Example: Because Mary gave birth to Christ, becoming our Mediatrix of Grace that comes from Christ.....

NOW

.......God did not put her aside, but she is now the one who Grace flows from the Father, to the Son, to Mary....who is NOW the Mediatrix and decision maker of Grace.

Now just pass that fruit around.
 
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repentant

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I just can't picture anyone saying "no" given the situation..Do you think God had a back up plan if she refused? I live in a strong Italian catholic area so Yes, I agree it is way over done..All the statues in the yards here are all Mary only..If you talk about faith to catholic neighbors it is Mary this, Mary that..And the papers have requests printed that if you pray these certain prayers and publish them Mary will get them answered, like it is some sure fire formula...It's Jesus..That's how we are given the example in the sacred scriptures..peace..kim


I think God knew she would say yes, but He didn't impose the answer on her..
 
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Mary of Bethany

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Exactly.

Aibrean said:
given the situation of her being so devoted to God and humble before Him

This was part of her "yes". You can't separate her whole life to that point from her "Let it be unto me . . . "

Mary
 
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IamAdopted

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If we examine closely the remainder of the life of Jesus Christ, we see that he chose to begin his miracles through Mary. It was by her word that he sanctified Saint John the Baptist in the womb of his mother, Saint Elizabeth; no sooner had Mary spoken than John was sanctified. This was his first and greatest miracle of grace. At the wedding in Cana he changed water into wine at her humble prayer, and this was his first miracle in the order of nature. He began and continued his miracles through Mary and he will continue them through her until the end of time.

20. God the Holy Spirit, who does not produce any divine person, became fruitful through Mary whom he espoused. It was with her, in her and of her that he produced his masterpiece, God-made-man, and that he produces every day until the end of the world the members of the body of this adorable Head. For this reason the more he finds Mary his dear and inseparable spouse in a soul the more powerful and effective he becomes in producing Jesus Christ in that soul and that soul in Jesus Christ.
Once again bringing God down to a human level where He is not.. For God is exhaulted above the heavens and the earth.. The Holy Spirit did not enspouse Mary.. He conceived The uncorruptable seed.. The Holy Spirit is not married and never has been for Marriage is for earth only.. For in Heaven there is no marriage therefore the Holy Spirit being God does not marry.. This is from the phylosophy of man and not of the scriptures.. It was not through her word that John the Baptist was anything. It was through Christ in her for even though He was in the womb He still was The Messiah..
 
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