• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

And then along came Mary...

Status
Not open for further replies.

TheListener

Save a cow - eat a vegetarian!
Aug 22, 2004
3,466
140
Sydney
✟26,948.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Who said she wasn't Jesus earthly mother? Stated right above you. Still Mary is not the new Eve.. Scripture does not call her our mother..It wasn't because of Mary that Jesus was God in the flesh.. He was already God He just became flesh..
I don't think you understood what I was saying. Jesus didn't become God because of Mary, Jesus used Mary as a vessel, like a ladder, to come down to earth.

And not everything is written in the Bible. There is a lot of Holy Tradition which didn't get recorded in the Bible which all the early Church fathers knew, taught and followed. The Bible never makes the claim that it is the be-all and end-all of all matters of faith. That was the idea and deception of man who came and changed things 1500 years later.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lionroar0
Upvote 0

IamAdopted

Well-Known Member
Nov 22, 2006
9,384
309
South Carolina
✟33,557.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I don't think you understood what I was saying. Jesus didn't become God because of Mary, Jesus used Mary as a vessel, like a ladder, to come down to earth.

And not everything is written in the Bible. There is a lot of Holy Tradition which didn't get recorded in the Bible which all the early Church fathers knew, taught and followed. The Bible never makes the claim that it is the be-all and end-all of all matters of faith. That was the idea and deception of man who came and changed things 1500 years later.
If it is not written in the bible then I don't believe that it is inspired.. For God never said tradtion was inspired only scripture was..
 
Upvote 0

TheListener

Save a cow - eat a vegetarian!
Aug 22, 2004
3,466
140
Sydney
✟26,948.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
If it is not written in the bible then I don't believe that it is inspired.. For God never said tradtion was inspired only scripture was..

Here is a warning against hollow tradtion (such as sola scriptura)

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.



And here is one telling us to adhere to Holy Tradition:
2 Thessalonians 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.



Not everything got recorded in the Bible.
 
Upvote 0

HisBelovedMelody

Well-Known Member
Jan 3, 2006
9,102
327
✟10,896.00
Faith
Nazarene
Marital Status
Married
Here is a warning against hollow tradtion (such as sola scriptura)

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.



And here is one telling us to adhere to Holy Tradition:
2 Thessalonians 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.



Not everything got recorded in the Bible.
no, but where it is silent, it should stay that way.
 
Upvote 0

PassthePeace1

CARO CARDO SALUTIS
Jun 6, 2005
13,265
700
✟39,260.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Sermon from John Henry Newman...where he preached on those verses.

Newman Reader - Faith and Prejudice and other Sermons
Sermon 7. Our Lady in the Gospel

Third Sunday in Lent, 26th March 1848

{85} There is a passage in the Gospel of this day, which may have struck many of us as needing some illustration. While our Lord was preaching, a woman in the crowd cried out, "Blessed is the womb that bore Thee and the breasts which Thou hast sucked" (Luke 11). Our Lord assents, but instead of dwelling on the good words of this woman, He goes on to say something further. He speaks of a greater blessedness. "Yea," He says, "but blessed are they who hear the word of God and keep it." Now these words of our Lord require notice, if it were only for this reason, because there are many persons nowadays who think they are said in depreciation of the glory and blessedness of the Most Holy Virgin Mary; as if our Lord had said, "My Mother is blessed, but my true servants are more blessed than she is." I shall say some words then on this passage, and with a peculiar fitness, because we have just passed the festival of Lady Day, the great feast on which we commemorate the Annunciation, {86} that is, the visit of the Angel Gabriel to her, and the miraculous conception of the Son of God, her Lord and Saviour, in her womb.
Now a very few words will be sufficient to show that our Lord's words are no disparagement to the dignity and glory of His Mother, as the first of creatures and the Queen of all Saints. For consider, He says that it is a more blessed thing to keep His commandments than to be His Mother, and do you think that the Most Holy Mother of God did not keep the commandments of God? Of course no one, no Protestant even—no one will deny she did. Well, if so, what our Lord says is that the Blessed Virgin was more blessed in that she kept His commandments than because she was His Mother. And what Catholic denies this? On the contrary we all confess it. All Catholics confess it. The Holy Fathers of the Church tell us again and again that our Lady was more blessed in doing God's will than in being His Mother. She was blessed in two ways. She was blessed in being His Mother; she was blessed in being filled with the spirit of faith and obedience. And the latter blessedness was the greater. I say the Holy Fathers say so expressly. St. Augustine says, "More blessed was Mary in receiving the faith of Christ, than in receiving the flesh of Christ." In like manner St. Elizabeth says to her at the Visitation, "Beata es quae credidisti, Blessed art thou who didst believe"; and St. Chrysostom goes so far as to say that she {87} would not have been blessed, even though she had borne Christ in the body, unless she had heard the word of God and kept it.
Now I have used the expression "St. Chrysostom goes so far as to say," not that it is not a plain truth. I say, it is a plain truth that the Blessed Virgin would not have been blessed, though she had been the Mother of God, if she had not done His will, but it is an extreme thing to say, for it is supposing a thing impossible, it is supposing that she could be so highly favoured and yet not be inhabited and possessed by God's grace, whereas the Angel, when he came, expressly hailed her as full of grace. "Ave, gratia plena." The two blessednesses cannot be divided. (Still it is remarkable that she herself had an opportunity of contrasting and dividing them, and that she preferred to keep God's commandments to being His Mother, if she could not have both.) She who was chosen to be the Mother of God was also chosen to be gratia plena, full of grace. This you see is an explanation of those high doctrines which are received among Catholics concerning the purity and sinlessness of the Blessed Virgin. St. Augustine will not listen to the notion that she ever committed sin, and the Holy Council of Trent declares that by special privilege she through all her life avoided all, even venial sin. And at this time you know it is the received belief of Catholics that she was not conceived in original sin, and that her conception was immaculate. {88}
Whence come these doctrines? They come from the great principle contained in our Lord's words on which I am commenting. He says, "More blessed is it to do God's will than to be God's Mother." Do not say that Catholics do not feel this deeply—so deeply do they feel it that they are ever enlarging on her virginity, purity, immaculateness, faith, humility and obedience. Never say then that Catholics forget this passage of Scripture. Whenever they keep the Feast of the Immaculate Conception, the Purity, or the like, recollect it is because they make so much of the blessedness of sanctity. The woman in the crowd cried out, "Blessed is the womb and the breasts of Mary." She spoke in faith; she did not mean to exclude her higher blessedness, but her words only went a certain way. Therefore our Lord completed them. And therefore His Church after Him, dwelling on the great and sacred mystery of His Incarnation, has ever felt that she, who so immediately ministered to it, must have been most holy. And therefore for the honour of the Son she has ever extolled the glory of the Mother. As we give Him of our best, ascribe to Him what is best, as on earth we make our churches costly and beautiful; as when He was taken down from the cross, His pious servants wrapped Him in fine linen, and laid Him in a tomb in which never man was laid; as His dwelling place in heaven is pure and stainless—so much more ought to be—so much more was—that tabernacle from {89} which He took flesh, in which He lay, holy and immaculate and divine. As a body was prepared for Him, so was the place of that body prepared also. Before the Blessed Mary could be Mother of God, and in order to her being Mother, she was set apart, sanctified, filled with grace, and made meet for the presence of the Eternal.
And the Holy Fathers have ever gathered the exact obedience and the sinlessness of the Blessed Virgin from the very narrative of the Annunciation, when she became the Mother of God. For when the Angel appeared to her and declared to her the will of God, they say that she displayed especially four graces, humility, faith, obedience and purity. Nay, these graces were as it were, preparatory conditions to her being made the minister of so high a dispensation. So that if she had not had faith, and humility, and purity, and obedience, she would not have merited to be God's Mother. Thus it is common to say that she conceived Christ in mind before she conceived Him in body, meaning that the blessedness of faith and obedience preceded the blessedness of being a Virgin Mother. Nay, they even say that God waited for her consent before He came into her and took flesh of her. Just as He did no mighty works in one place because they had not faith, so this great miracle, by which He became the Son of a creature, was suspended till she was tried and found meet for it—till she obeyed.
But there is something more to be added to this. I {90} said just now that the two blessednesses could not be divided, that they went together. "Blessed is the womb," etc.; "Yea, rather blessed," etc. It is true, but observe this. The Holy Fathers always teach that in the Annunciation, when the Angel appeared to our Lady, she showed that she preferred what our Lord called the greater of the two blessednesses to the other. For when the Angel announced to her that she was destined to have that blessedness which Jewish women had age after age looked out for, to be the Mother of the expected Christ, she did not seize the news, as another would, but she waited. She waited till she could be told it was consistent with her Virgin state. She was unwilling to accept this most wonderful honour, unwilling till she could be satisfied on this point. "How shall this be, since I know not man?" They consider that she had made a vow of virginity, and considered that holy estate a greater thing than to bear the Christ. Such is the teaching of the Church, showing distinctly how closely she observes the doctrine of the words of Scripture on which I am commenting, how intimately she considers that the Blessed Mary felt them, viz. that though blessed was the womb that bore Christ and the breasts which He sucked, yet more blessed was the soul which owned that womb and those breasts, more blessed was the soul full of grace, which because it was so gracious was rewarded with the extraordinary privilege to be made the Mother of God. {91}
But now a further question arises, which it may be worth considering. It may be asked, Why did our blessed Lord even seem to extenuate the honour and privilege of His Mother? When the woman said, "Blessed is the womb," etc., He answered indeed, "Yea." But He went on, "Yea, rather blessed." And on another occasion, if not on this, He said when someone told Him that His Mother and brethren were without, "Who is My Mother?" etc. And at an earlier time, when He began His miracles, and His Mother told Him that the guests in the marriage feast had no wine, He said, "Woman, what have I to do with thee? Mine hour is not yet come." These passages seem to be coldly worded towards the Blessed Virgin, even though the sense may be satisfactorily explained. What then do they mean? Why did He so speak?
Now I shall give two reasons in explanation:
1. The first which more immediately rises out of what I have been saying is this: that for many centuries the Jewish women had looked out each of them to be the Mother of the expected Christ, and had not associated it apparently with any higher sanctity. Therefore they had been so desirous of marriage; therefore marriage was held in such special honour by them. Now marriage is an ordinance of God, and Christ has made it a sacrament—yet there is a higher state, and that the Jews did not understand. Their whole idea was to associate {92} religion with pleasures of this world. They did not know, commonly speaking, what it was to give up this world for the next. They did not understand that poverty was better than riches, ill name than good name, fast and abstinence than feasting, and virginity than marriage. And therefore when the woman in the crowd cried out upon the blessedness of the womb that bore Him and the breasts that He had sucked, He taught her and all who heard Him that the soul was greater than the body, and that to be united to Him in spirit was more than to be united to Him in flesh.
2. This is one reason, and the other is more interesting to us. You know that our Saviour for the first thirty years of His earthly life lived under the same roof as His Mother. When He returned from Jerusalem at the age of twelve with her and St. Joseph, it is expressly said that He was subject to them. This is a very strong expression, but that subjection, that familiar family life, was not to last to the end. Even on the occasion upon which the Evangelist says that He was subject to them, He had said and done what emphatically conveyed to them that He had other duties. For He had left them and stayed in the Temple among the doctors, and when they expressed surprise, He answered, "Wist ye not that I ought to be in the things which are My Father's?" This was, I say, an anticipation of the time of His Ministry, when He was to leave His home. For thirty years {93} He remained there, but, as He was steadily observant of His home duties, while they were His duties, so was He zealous about His Father's work, when the time came for His performing it. When the time of His mission came, He left His home and His Mother and, dear as she was to Him, He put her aside.
In the Old Testament the Levites are praised because they knew not father or mother, when duty to God came in the way. "Who said to his father and to his mother, I know you not, and to his brothers, I am ignorant of you" (Deut. 33). "They knew not their children." If such was the conduct of the sacerdotal tribe under the Law, well did it become the great and one Priest of the New Covenant to give a pattern of that virtue which was found and rewarded in Levi. He too Himself has said, "He who loveth father or mother more than Me, is not worthy of Me." And He tells us that "every one who hath left home or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands for His name's sake, shall receive a hundredfold and shall possess eternal life" (Matt. 19). It became then Him who gave the precept to set the example, and as He told his followers to leave all they had for the Kingdom's sake, in His own Person to do all that He could, to leave all He had, to leave His home and His Mother, when He had to preach the Gospel.
Therefore it was that from the beginning of His {94} ministry, He gave up His Mother. At the time He did His first miracle, He proclaimed it. He did that miracle at her bidding, but He implied, or rather declared, that He was then beginning to separate from her. He said, "What is between Me and thee?" And again, "My hour is not yet come," that is, The hour cometh when I shall acknowledge thee again, 0 my Mother. The hour cometh when thou rightly and powerfully wilt intercede with Me. The hour cometh when at thy bidding I will do miracles: it cometh, but it is not yet come. And till it is come "What is between thee and Me? I know thee not. For the time I have forgotten thee."
From that time we have no record of His seeing His Mother till He saw her under His Cross. He parted with her. Once she tried to see Him. A report went about that He was beside Himself. His friends went out to get possession of Him. The Blessed Virgin apparently did not like to be left behind. She went Out too. A message came to Him that they were seeking Him, could not reach Him for the press. Then He said those serious words, "Who is My Mother?" etc., meaning, as it would appear, that He had left all for God's service, and that, as for our sake He had been born of the Virgin, so for our sake He gave up His Virgin Mother, that He might glorify His heavenly Father and do His work.
Such was His separation from the Blessed Mary, but when on the Cross He said, "It is finished," this time of {95} separation was at an end. And therefore before it His blessed Mother had joined Him, and He seeing her, recognized her again. His hour was come, and He said to her of St. John, "Woman, behold thy son," and to St. John, "Behold thy Mother."
And now, my Brethren, in conclusion I will but say one thing. I do not wish your words to outrun your real feeling. I do not wish you to take up books containing the praises of the Ever Blessed Virgin, and to use them and imitate them rashly without consideration. But be sure of this, that if you cannot enter into the warmth of foreign books of devotion, it is a deficiency in you. To use strong words will not mend the matter; it is a fault within which can only gradually be overcome, but it is a deficiency, for this reason, if for no other. Depend upon it, the way to enter into the sufferings of the Son, is to enter into the sufferings of the Mother. Place yourselves at the foot of the Cross, see Mary standing there, looking up and pierced with the sword. Imagine her feelings, make them your own. Let her be your great pattern. Feel what she felt and you will worthily mourn over the death and passion of your and her Saviour. Have her simple faith, and you will believe well. Pray to be filled with the grace given to her. Alas, you must have many feelings she had not, the feeling of personal sin, of personal sorrow, of contrition, and self hate, but these will in a sinner naturally accompany the faith, the {96} humility, the simplicity which were her great ornaments. Lament with her, believe with her, and at length you will experience her blessedness of which the text speaks. None indeed can have her special prerogative, and be the Mother of the Highest, but you will have a share in that blessedness of hers which is greater, the blessedness of doing God's will and keeping His commandments.
 
Upvote 0

Rick Otto

The Dude Abides
Nov 19, 2002
34,112
7,406
On The Prairie
✟29,593.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Hey wait a minute, Listener!
You say "hollow" like its a BAD thing!
It is hollow so you can fill it with scripture.:D
After all, its a way of checkin' scripture against other scripture to help keep ya from gettin' off track.
Holy Spirit seals the deal. But in His own way, in His own time. We are obviously not a lock-step herd within any one sector, much less on professing mass. It is a matter of verity, not authority. The truth itself is what authorizes our freedom.

I will address my more vehement critics at the Commercial Break.
Meanwhile it's nice to see the Usual Suspects among crowd of perpetrators. Love you guys. Great senses of humor. Keep those jabs a'comin', but at me, not the ladies. You guys are sharp & keep me on my toes!:thumbsup:
 
Upvote 0

TheListener

Save a cow - eat a vegetarian!
Aug 22, 2004
3,466
140
Sydney
✟26,948.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Hey wait a minute, Listener!
You say "hollow" like its a BAD thing!
It is hollow so you can fill it with scripture.:D
After all, its a way of checkin' scripture against other scripture to help keep ya from gettin' off track.
Holy Spirit seals the deal. But in His own way, in His own time. We are obviously not a lock-step herd within any one sector, much less on professing mass. It is a matter of verity, not authority. The truth itself is what authorizes our freedom.

I will address my more vehement critics at the Commercial Break.
Meanwhile it's nice to see the Usual Suspects among crowd of perpetrators. Love you guys. Great senses of humor. Keep those jabs a'comin', but at me, not the ladies. You guys are sharp & keep me on my toes!:thumbsup:
Well, you obviously seem to know the Christian faith better than the early Church fathers... So there you go...
 
Upvote 0

repentant

Orthodoxy: Debunking heretics since 33 A.D.
Sep 2, 2005
6,885
289
45
US of A
✟8,687.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
In Relationship
The English does not translate the Greek in this verse. Where the word "rather" is in English, the Original Greek has "menoun" which better translates to "indeed". So the correct way to say it is:

"Yes indeed, blessed are those who hear the Word of God and keep it".

What He was trying to say is that the "womb that bore Him" was blessed because she heard the Word of God, and kept it..or obeyed it.
 
Upvote 0

Rick Otto

The Dude Abides
Nov 19, 2002
34,112
7,406
On The Prairie
✟29,593.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
repentant, in more than one version.
He was saying blessed is ANYONE who hears & obeys, not just "the womb that bore him".

Thanks for the compliment, Listener. It is difficult for many to accept that given all of the history we have to learn from, we can understand the occasional human failings of men as great as even the ECF.
.................................................................
Yo, PassthePeace!:)
I think it highly inappropriate to use "glory" in association with anyone other than God.
Ro 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Isa 42:8 - I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
Ps 115:1 - Not unto us, O LORD, not unto us, but unto thy name give glory, for thy mercy, and for thy truth's sake.
 
Upvote 0

Benedicta00

Well-Known Member
Jun 25, 2003
28,512
838
Visit site
✟55,563.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
Well from the 1/2 dozen times she is spoken of in the bible it would be a leap to Jump to that conclusion, but sure she may be!
In those 1/2 dozen times, point us to one instance where she was anything but the example of what it is to follow Christ and give oneself over to God's will.
 
Upvote 0

IamAdopted

Well-Known Member
Nov 22, 2006
9,384
309
South Carolina
✟33,557.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Here is a warning against hollow tradtion (such as sola scriptura)

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.



And here is one telling us to adhere to Holy Tradition:
2 Thessalonians 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.



Not everything got recorded in the Bible.
True not everything that was done or said is written in scripture. But everything that we need is.. God has not left us as orphans.. He has sent His word to be a light unto our path. He has sent His word so that we may be sanctified..
Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
My point exactly.. After the tradtions of men.. The rudiments of the world. And not after Christ..Somewhere along the line Mary snuck in here..Now some see her as someone even scripture doesn't speak of her..
2 Thessalonians 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle
Read this again.. Paul is saying that He not only taught in the epistle but by word. Doesn't mean his word and his epistle are different.. It means that if He didn't write it He still spoke the same..
 
Upvote 0

Benedicta00

Well-Known Member
Jun 25, 2003
28,512
838
Visit site
✟55,563.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
I think Paul is a better example.. For all He went through to bring the Gospel of Christ to the gentiles.. Peter is another shining example. Stephen was also one.. So in comparison I would say that all whom heard the word of God and believed are all shining examples saying yes to God and allowing God to work through them..
so? I think Paul was a good example too.

What, there can only be one example?

The question was, don't you think Mary was a good example of following God's will?

You know she was, or at least you should know that, if you really don't than that's pretty sad, no, it's very sad.
 
Upvote 0

IamAdopted

Well-Known Member
Nov 22, 2006
9,384
309
South Carolina
✟33,557.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
so? I think Paul was a good example too.

What, there can only be one example?

The question was, don't you think Mary was a good example of following God's will?

You know she was, or at least you should know that, if you really don't than that's pretty sad, no, it's very sad.
She did accept what God had for her.. His plan. So did Paul and Stephen and Peter and Niccodemus and all those whom believed. Many still today that do the same. All following after Christ alone. Knowing that in Him if fulness of Joy.
 
Upvote 0

Benedicta00

Well-Known Member
Jun 25, 2003
28,512
838
Visit site
✟55,563.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
She did accept what God had for her.. His plan. So did Paul and Stephen and Peter and Niccodemus and all those whom believed. Many still today that do the same. All following after Christ alone. Knowing that in Him if fulness of Joy.
So Jesus was correct then? He who does God's will is like Mary.

The fact that the others and we ourselves do God's will too is besides the point.

You know why?

Because at the time Jesus spoke it to the crowd, who was doing God's will?

The apostles didn't even get fully what was going on until Pentecost.

Before that, they messed up all over the place (Peter denied Christ even) and until Paul was knocked off his horse, he was murdering Christians, hardly doing God's will. So Jesus was not meaning them, now was he?

So Jesus said at that time to the crowd whom he was teaching, Mary is the example of doing God's will.

38And Mary said: Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it done to me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

You have nothing to fear if you acknowledge that...

You have nothing to lose if you see Jesus' statement as positive towards His mother and not something negative.

For what reason would Jesus speak about her negivtively? What did Mary ever do that deserves him to speak about her in that way?

This?

38And Mary said: Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it done to me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her

Hardly.
 
Upvote 0

Benedicta00

Well-Known Member
Jun 25, 2003
28,512
838
Visit site
✟55,563.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
Yes we can assume that, but it the context is about to whom deserves the adoration!
No, it's about who is the example of doing God's will.

tell me, at the time Jesus said this to the crowd, who was the current example of doing God's will?

Mary was.
 
Upvote 0

IamAdopted

Well-Known Member
Nov 22, 2006
9,384
309
South Carolina
✟33,557.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
So Jesus was correct then? He who does God's will is like Mary.

The fact that the others and we ourselves do God's will too is besides the point.

You know why?

Because at the time Jesus spoke it to the crowd, who was doing God's will?

The apostles didn't even get fully what was going on until Pentecost.

Before that, they messed up all over the place (Peter denied Christ even) and until Paul was knocked off his horse, he was murdering Christians, hardly doing God's will. So Jesus was not meaning them, now was he?

So Jesus said at that time to the crowd whom he was teaching, Mary is the example of doing God's will.



You have nothing to fear if you acknowledge that...

You have nothing to lose if you see Jesus' statement as positive towards His mother and not something negative.

For what reason would Jesus speak about her negivtively? What did Mary ever do that deserves him to speak about her in that way?

This?



Hardly.
Nope what Jesus said is those who do the Fathers will are like his mother brother and sister.. Being that those whom do the Fathers will are one with Him.. Calling us brothers and friends because it is Him in us willing us to Do His will.. He never did any of the such with His statment.. This is stretching the scripture to fit the need now isn't it.. He said on the contrary.. In opposition to what the one had called out showing us that All who do His will are blessed.. Had nothing to do with Mary,. But all to do with the Father.. :)
 
Upvote 0

Benedicta00

Well-Known Member
Jun 25, 2003
28,512
838
Visit site
✟55,563.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
YES!
As scripture says "Stephen full of grace!"
"And Stephen, full of grace and power, was performing great wonders and signs among the people," Acts 6:8
He was full of grace after the resurrection as we all are who are in Him... but before? Who could have been before Christ was even born?

The angle says Mary was, doesn't he?
 
Upvote 0

Benedicta00

Well-Known Member
Jun 25, 2003
28,512
838
Visit site
✟55,563.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
Nope what Jesus said is those who do the Fathers will are like his mother brother and sister.. Being that those whom do the Fathers will are one with Him.. Calling us brothers and friends because it is Him in us willing us to Do His will.. He never did any of the such with His statment.. This is stretching the scripture to fit the need now isn't it.. He said on the contrary.. In opposition to what the one had called out showing us that All who do His will are blessed.. Had nothing to do with Mary,. But all to do with the Father.. :)
He said who is my mother, who is my brother? One who does the will of God.

Mary did the will of God, didn't she? So I guess that makes her what? His mother?

Well of course she is His mother, but it makes her part of the family of God.

So how do you get out of this that Jesus was teaching us something negative about Mary?

That is what is very baffling here, that you are.

Is it because you are anti Mary?

The truth of the matter IAA, Jesus was merely using hyperbole. Saying that we are part of the family of God when we hear him and when we keep his word.

He was contrasting John where he said, he who keeps my commandments, I will no longer call salve but friend.

Actually IAA, this verse is not about Mary the person, at all, neither positive or negative.

It's about those who hear the word of God and who keeps it... they are considered family to God, not just salves of His law.

There is nothing to fear if you view Mary as being part of God's family.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.