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Is Mary a source of Holiness?

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Myriah

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un·til
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/ʌnˈtɪl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[uhn-til] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –conjunction 1.up to the time that or when; till: He read until his guests arrived. 2.before (usually used in negative constructions): They did not come until the meeting was half over. –preposition 3.onward to or till (a specified time or occurrence): She worked until 6 p.m. 4.before (usually used in negative constructions): He did not go until night. 5.Scot. and North England. to; unto.
[Origin: 1150&#8211;1200; ME untill, equiv. to un- (< ON unz up to, as far as) + till till1
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]

&#8212;Usage note See till1.


Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

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It's funny how the ECF's wrote about Middle English words hundreds and I think St. Jerome wrote about the word "until" 1000 years before the word was ever even invented.

I guess these ECF's were psychic?

Benedicta00 quote:

Quote:
The ever-virgin One thus remains even after the birth still virgin, having never at any time up till death consorted with a man. For although it is written, And knew her not till she had brought forth her first-born Son, yet note that he who is first-begotten is first-born even if he is only-begotten. For the word first-born' means that he was born first but does not at all suggest the birth of others. And the word till' signifies the limit of the appointed time but does not exclude the time thereafter. For the Lord says, And lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world, not meaning thereby that He will be separated from us after the completion of the age. The divine apostle, indeed, says, And so shall we ever be with the Lord, meaning after the general resurrection."
John of Damascus,Orthodox Faith,4:14(A.D. 743),in NPNF2,IX:86
 
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Benedicta00

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un·til
premium.gif
thinsp.png
/&#652;n&#712;t&#618;l/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[uhn-til] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation &#8211;conjunction 1.up to the time that or when; till: He read until his guests arrived. 2.before (usually used in negative constructions): They did not come until the meeting was half over. &#8211;preposition 3.onward to or till (a specified time or occurrence): She worked until 6 p.m. 4.before (usually used in negative constructions): He did not go until night. 5.Scot. and North England. to; unto.
[Origin: 1150&#8211;1200; ME untill, equiv. to un- (< ON unz up to, as far as) + till till1
thinsp.png
]

&#8212;Usage note See till1.


Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

--------------------------------------------------

It's funny how the ECF's wrote about Middle English words hundreds and I think St. Jerome wrote about the word "until" 1000 years before the word was ever even invented.

I guess these ECF's were psychic?

Benedicta00 quote:

Quote:
The ever-virgin One thus remains even after the birth still virgin, having never at any time up till death consorted with a man. For although it is written, And knew her not till she had brought forth her first-born Son, yet note that he who is first-begotten is first-born even if he is only-begotten. For the word first-born' means that he was born first but does not at all suggest the birth of others. And the word till' signifies the limit of the appointed time but does not exclude the time thereafter. For the Lord says, And lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world, not meaning thereby that He will be separated from us after the completion of the age. The divine apostle, indeed, says, And so shall we ever be with the Lord, meaning after the general resurrection."
John of Damascus,Orthodox Faith,4:14(A.D. 743),in NPNF2,IX:86
well doesn't that prove our point the the word 'till' was not used as it typically is now?

When Jesus said he will be with us until the end of time- Does that mean the time after that- he will not be with us?
 
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Myriah

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well doesn't that prove our point the the word 'till' was not used as it typically is now?

When Jesus said he will be with us until the end of time- Does that mean the time after that- he will not be with us?

No, I think it proves somethin' else. ;)
 
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FrauleinElsa

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We disagree that honer is worship.


Well, then you disagree with every definition of the word and every dictionary and thesaurus then. Because according to my Websters Dictionary and I'm sure all dictionaries everywhere honor is worship. I'm saying this because the thesaurus says that honor and worship are synonyms. Meaning they are the same. That's all I have to say. I'm not going to get mired down in useless bickering. That's my word on it.
 
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Benedicta00

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Well, then you disagree with every definition of the word and every dictionary and thesaurus then. Because according to my Websters Dictionary and I'm sure all dictionaries everywhere honor is worship. I'm saying this because the thesaurus says that honor and worship are synonyms. Meaning they are the same. That's all I have to say. I'm not going to get mired down in useless bickering. That's my word on it.
then we'll just go by what's in my heart then... I worship God and love and honor Mary...like I do my own mother.
 
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sunlover1

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You have t be mistaken because I never had a a post removed, nor did I say that... was it on the first page? If I did, I apologize because it was misunderstood because I know good and well i would never say such a thing.

I hope you can locate this post because I really don't think it was me, but of it was and if i did say something inappropriate i will apologize. in fact I'm sorry that you thought I did say something like that to you- I don't feel that way at all.

I can't see Bene saying such a thing either.
:scratch:

Sometimes people will imply that others (who look at mary as the vessle that God used to bring Jesus to earth) are dishonoring God.
 
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WarriorAngel

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Well, then you disagree with every definition of the word and every dictionary and thesaurus then. Because according to my Websters Dictionary and I'm sure all dictionaries everywhere honor is worship. I'm saying this because the thesaurus says that honor and worship are synonyms. Meaning they are the same. That's all I have to say. I'm not going to get mired down in useless bickering. That's my word on it.


Well then, what a strange predicament we have.
The ten commandments tell us to HONOR our parents.

I suppose we are called to worship them then?:scratch:
 
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IamAdopted

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Okay lets see.. I am a she. I am not a he or a brother.. Tee hee.. The reason I bring this up is because there are some out there that fear if they do not exhault Mary and honor her they are in jeopardy of being damned. This is not truth. This is not the true Knowledge of Christ Jesus..
 
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MaideninWaiting

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Well, then you disagree with every definition of the word and every dictionary and thesaurus then. Because according to my Websters Dictionary and I'm sure all dictionaries everywhere honor is worship. I'm saying this because the thesaurus says that honor and worship are synonyms. Meaning they are the same. That's all I have to say. I'm not going to get mired down in useless bickering. That's my word on it.
If honor and worship are the same, I find it very interesting that God would ask us to "worship" our parents...

"Honor thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee," Exodus 20:12

"Honor thy father and thy mother, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee," Deuteronomy 5:16.

"Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. Honor thy father and thy mother; which is the first commandment with promise; That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth. And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord," Ephesians 6:1-4.

"For God commanded, saying, Honor thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; And honor not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition," Matthew 15:4-6

"For Moses said, "Honor your father and mother"; and, "He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death." Mark 7:10

"You know the commandments: "Do not commit adultery", "Do not steal", "Do not bear false witness", "Honor your father and your mother"." Luke 18:20


I'm sorry, but according to the bible, honor is not worship.


In Christ,
Bridgette
 
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Benedicta00

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Okay lets see.. I am a she. I am not a he or a brother.. Tee hee.. The reason I bring this up is because there are some out there that fear if they do not exhault Mary and honor her they are in jeopardy of being damned. This is not truth. This is not the true Knowledge of Christ Jesus..
Well I'm on board with you.. no one should believe that Mary is to be exulted or if they do not exult her they will be damned to hell. Nor does any one have to give her honor...

The Church does not teach that anyone who does not honor Mary will burn in hell.
 
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Benedicta00

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Have you noticed that those are the only ones whom we are to Honor? Our parents? They are living and we are to honor them by obeying them.. We are not told to obey Mary..
Catholics don't "obey" Mary... it's not a teaching of the Church.

Look at what Mary said in John 2... "Do what ever he tells you..."

The term some will use... "obey Mary" simply means we should take Mary's advice that she gives in the bible- "Do what ever he tells you..."

The servants at the wedding feast 'obeyed' and they received a miracle for it.

So to obey Mary would mean to obey Christ...
 
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MaideninWaiting

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As a Catholic I've never been taught that if you don't honor Mary you are damned. It comes down to this. Jesus honored His mother, why shouldn't I follow His example? And why shouldn't I honor her for the decision she made? She had free will just like the rest of us and she freely and willingly chose to align her will with God's Will and be the vessel through which Our Savior came into this world. Personally, I think I am pleasing the Lord and showing honor to Him when I show love and appreciation to His mother.


Have you noticed that those are the only ones whom we are to Honor? Our parents? They are living and we are to honor them by obeying them.. We are not told to obey Mary..
That scripture was merely giving an example that honor and worship are not the same. Honor and obey are not the same thing either. Obey is only one way in which we honor our parents.


In Christ,
Bridgette
 
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FrauleinElsa

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Jesus honored His mother, why shouldn't I follow His example? And why shouldn't I honor her for the decision she made?

Hi,

I'm not trying to pick a fight, but I have to ask why. It makes sense for Jesus becasue she was His mother. To me, it just seems unecessary and not what I've read in scriptures. I guess as a Protestant though I just "don't get it". I really don't.
 
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HisKid1973

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Catholics don't "obey" Mary... it's not a teaching of the Church.

Look at what Mary said in John 2... "Do what ever he tells you..."

The term some will use... "obey Mary" simply means we should take Mary's advice that she gives in the bible- "Do what ever he tells you..."
The servants at the wedding feast 'obeyed' and they received a miracle for it.
So to obey Mary would mean to obey Christ...

I think there is more read into those verses then was intended...It's all about Jesus..
 
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MaideninWaiting

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Hi,

I'm not trying to pick a fight, but I have to ask why. It makes sense for Jesus becasue she was His mother. To me, it just seems unecessary and not what I've read in scriptures. I guess as a Protestant though I just "don't get it". I really don't.
Well, try thinking of it this way. You honor your mother, right? And you love her more than can be expressed. Just like Jesus loves His mother. And say your mother made a very huge decision. She aligned her will with God's Will and through her it had a huge impact on the world. And it was something very hard for her. (Just like Mary. Risking her life by becoming pregnant. Having to watch her Son die in the most cruel way. Not an easy decision.) Would you like it if people dismissed your mother and considered it unneccesary to show their love and appreciation to her in any way? I mean, really consider it. Do you not think it would hurt you that your mother made such a huge decision out of love for God and His children, a decision that was so hard on her, and she wasn't even recognized for it? I know I would be very hurt if it were my mother. And my love isn't even as great as Jesus' love. How much more would it hurt Him to watch the dismissal of His mother?


In Christ,
Bridgette
 
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HisKid1973

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I don't know anyone who dismisses her or don't call her blessed ..We just don't lift up her or another other believers in the scriptures....To us it's all about Jesus. And when He is lifted up all men are drawn to Him..pax..Kim

PS. And believe me I have seen the goings on at Marian festivals..She is lifted up...
 
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