Is Mary a source of Holiness?

[Benedicta00]

All the Apostles were died by around 100 AD.



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As I said in my post.



Thank you!


Pax!


- Josiah



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CJ,

They were alive when the apostle were, they learned during their generation.

Denial does nothing for either one of us.

You asked and I gave it to you- 88 years after Christ ascended we see some of the first bishops in Christianity venerating His mother.

You can accept it or you can take issue with it, it's your pergorative.

 

[Benedicta00]

I am not about to believe the doctrines of men on this..

but yet you believe their doctrine of sola scripture... I like eating out at cafeterias too.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by FrauleinElsa
I am not about to believe the doctrines of men on this..

but yet you believe their doctrine of sola scripture... I like eating out at cafeterias too.

I rather like both myself.

LUKE 3:23 And he was Jesus beginning as if of years 30 being son as was to Law/enomizeto.

Galatians 4:4 and when the fulness of time did come, God sent forth His Son, come of a woman, come under law/nomon

 

[lionroar0]

I'm sorry, there is NO statment, vague or otherwise, of the perpetual virginity of Mary.

Hence, there is no double standard. Again, you only attribute this, because you CANNOT demonstrate your viewpoint in scripture

Yes there is. The same can be said of the Trinity and the Hypostatic union. No where in Scripture is it vaguely or other wise mentioned.


Peace

 

[Benedicta00]

I was talking about differences in writtings of the earliest church fathers, as opposed to later writings of the ECF's, some 200-300 years later.

Loves grows Uphill.

But don't let these excuses detract from the issue- the early Church who was closer to the apostles, closer than what we can ever be, all honored Mary and would not dare speak of the mother of God in the manner in which those today do.

yes, I do fear as well... Pious' opinion along with Demontfort and JP, has legs. Good strong ones.

 

[Benedicta00]

n/m

 

[Benedicta00]

"For if Mary, as those declare who with sound mind extol her, had no other son but Jesus, and yet Jesus says to His mother, Woman, behold thy son,' and not Behold you have this son also,' then He virtually said to her, Lo, this is Jesus, whom thou didst bear.' Is it not the case that every one who is perfect lives himself no longer, but Christ lives in him; and if Christ lives in him, then it is said of him to Mary, Behold thy son Christ.' What a mind, then, must we have to enable us to interpret in a worthy manner this work, though it be committed to the earthly treasure-house of common speech, of writing which any passer-by can read, and which can be heard when read aloud by any one who lends to it his bodily ears?"
Origen,Commentary on John,I:6(A.D. 232),in ANF,X:300

Here's an earlier one.

I personally think splitting hairs over 1 to 300 years is silly. The point is, these men canonized the bible and defined the Holy Trinity for goodness sakes, but they are stupid when it comes to Mary?

Hardly.


Who am I going to think knows a little more? The ECF from the 3 century or the Fundamentalist/SDA extremist from the 19th?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Loves grows Uphill.

But don't let these excuses detract from the issue- the early Church who was closer to the apostles, closer than what we can ever be, all honored Mary and would not dare speak of the mother of God in the manner in which those today do.

yes, I do fear as well... Pious' opinion along with Demontfort and JP, has legs. Good strong ones.

Hi. I rarely speak of her and since the Apostle Paul felt she wasn't as important as the death, ressurection and ascension of our Lord Jesus, I suppose that is why I don't mention the "Mary" much. But that is just me.

(Young) Romans 10:9 that if thou mayest confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and mayest believe in thy heart that God did raise Him out of the dead, thou shalt be saved,

(Young) Daniel 12:1 `And at that time stand up doth Miyka'el, the great head, who is standing up for the sons of thy people, and there hath been a time of distress, such as hath not been since there hath been a nation till that time, and at that time do thy people escape, every one who is found written in the Book. [Book of the Life of the Lamb]

 

[lionroar0]

Here's an earlier one.

I personally think splitting hairs over 1 to 300 years is silly. The point is, these men canonized the bible and defined the Holy Trinity for goodness sakes, but they are stupid when it comes t Mary?

Hardly.


Who am I going to think knows a little more? The ECF from the 3 century or the Fundamentalist/SDA extremist from the 19th?

Yep.

Peace

 

[IamAdopted]

This is the view that is being spoused as I explained in my previous post.

The view that Mary is not Ever-Virgin came from the age of enlightement not from the reformers themselves.

The age of enlightement was when secularism adn humanist took hold.

That is the view that you are espousing.

Just thought I let you know where the belive that Mary was not ever-virgin came from.

Peace

Didn't come from the Apostles either.. For they never speak of it. In fact they didn't because they knew Jesus brother.. He was one of them so how can the speak of what is not true..

 

[lionroar0]

Didn't come from the Apostles either.. For they never speak of it. In fact they didn't because they knew Jesus brother.. He was one of them so how can the speak of what is not true..

Using your logic. They don't mention the Trinity nor the Hypostatic union. So we shouldn't belive that either.


Peace

 

[lionroar0]

Just out of curiosity what is the earliest mention of the Trinity?

Peace

 

[lionroar0]

Didn't come from the Apostles either.. For they never speak of it. In fact they didn't because they knew Jesus brother.. He was one of them so how can the speak of what is not true

You sure about that?

Peace

 

[Benedicta00]

I don't think so.

It shows just how much some protestants have deviated from orthodox christianity and accepted, a secular humanist view.

Which during the enlightment attacked christianity as whole regardless of church affiliation and put forth that all that we need is ourselves and science. In other words God is replaced by the individual and what the individual belives and science only looks at the natural world for answers not the supernatural(God.)



Peace

It's not when did her dogams come about, it's when did she stop being a virgin, sinless, honored, etc?

It's only been in the last 100 or so years with the onset of new denominations, like the SDA and the fundamentalist bible extremists.

Belief in her as unimportant, irrelevant, etc is a new age Protestant tradition, very far removed from the original reformation.

For the last 500 years since sola scripture we have had nothing but disunity, disagreement, splits and division.

I just wonder when is the 'reformation' ever going to get finished "reforming?"

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Just out of curiosity what is the earliest mention of the Trinity?

Peace

Hi. Possibly Psalms?

NKJV) Psalms 51:11 Do not cast me away from Your presence, And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.

Psalms 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool."

 

[Benedicta00]

Oh yeah? Proove it.

prove they didn't?

 

[lionroar0]

It's not when did her dogams come about, it's when did she stop being a virgin, sinless, honored, etc?

It's only been in the last 100 or so years with the onset of new denominations, like the SDA and the fundamentalist bible extremists.

Belief in her as unimportant, irrelevant, etc is a new age Protestant tradition, very far removed from the original reformation.

For the last 500 years since sola scripture we have had nothing but disunity, disagreement, splits and division.

I just wonder when is the 'reformation' ever going to get finished reforming?

Yep. Even the reformers themselves belive it.

Peace

 

[lionroar0]

NKJV) Psalms 51:11 Do not cast me away from Your presence, And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.

Psalms 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool."

The Holy Spirit is not the Trinity.

I was asking for the earliest explicit mention of the Trinity.

Neither does pslam 110
Peace

 

[Benedicta00]

Just out of curiosity what is the earliest mention of the Trinity?

Peace

"Our teacher of these things is Jesus Christ, who also was born for this purpose, and was crucified under Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judaea, in the times of Tiberius Caesar; and that we reasonably worship Him, having learned that He is the Son of the true God Himself, and holding Him in the second place, and the prophetic Spirit in the third, we will prove."
Justin Martyr,First Apology,13 (A.D. 155),in ANF,I:166-167

Wow, same guy, same year he venerated Mary... what were the odds?

 

[lionroar0]

Wow, same guy, same year he venerated Mary... what were the odds?

Ya think

Peace