The false doctrine of the immortality of the soul (or State of the Dead).

[Eila]

The essence of what you are calling a spirit here is the mind. Which by the way is basically an undefined intangible entity. This mind or intellectual existence will die when the body does. Remember the defintion of a soul given to us in Genesis. Man became a living soul after the breath of life was intimately breathed into his nostrils. Man is a soul man does not possess a soul.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

Here is Strongs definition of spirit

The Spirit
New Testament Greek Definition:
4151 pneuma {pnyoo'-mah}
from 4154; TDNT - 6:332,876; n n
AV - Spirit 111, Holy Ghost 89, Spirit (of God) 13,
Spirit (of the Lord) 5, (My) Spirit 3, Spirit (of truth) 3,
Spirit (of Christ) 2, human (spirit) 49, (evil) spirit 47,
spirit (general) 26, spirit 8, (Jesus' own) spirit 6,
(Jesus' own) ghost 2, misc 21; 385
1) the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal,
coeternal with the Father and the Son
1a) sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his
personality and character (the \\Holy\\ Spirit)
1b) sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his work
and power (the Spirit of \\Truth\\)
1c) never referred to as a depersonalised force
2) the spirit, i.e. the vital principal by which the body is animated
2a) the rational spirit, the power by which the human being feels,
thinks, decides
2b) the soul
3) a spirit, i.e. a simple essence, devoid of all or at least
all grosser matter, and possessed of the power of knowing,
desiring, deciding, and acting
3a) a life giving spirit
3b) a human soul that has left the body
3c) a spirit higher than man but lower than God, i.e. an angel
3c1) used of demons, or evil spirits, who were conceived
as inhabiting the bodies of men
3c2) the spiritual nature of Christ, higher than the highest
angels and equal to God, the divine nature of Christ
4) the disposition or influence which fills and governs the soul
of any one
4a) the efficient source of any power, affection, emotion, desire, etc.
5) a movement of air (a gentle blast)
5a) of the wind, hence the wind itself
5b) breath of nostrils or mouth

In this verse in Romans "16The Spirit Himself [thus] testifies together with our own spirit, [assuring us] that we are children of God."

"The Spirit" is pneuma and the "spirit" is pneuma too. Would you say that The Spirit was a mind?

 

[reddogs]

Read the scriptures and gain understanding....Christ will change us, we cannot save ourselves or make ourselves immortal.......

The Bible teaches that man is mortal but by "patient continuance in well doing", through the power and grace of Jesus Christ we are to seek for immortality which will be given to us when Jesus comes back the second time. (See Romans 2:7 above) Below are Bible verses that show that man is mortal.

"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?" Job 4:17

"Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof." Romans 6:12

"But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you." Romans 8:11

"In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?" 1 Corinthians 15:52-55

"For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh." 2 Corinthians 4:11

According to the Bible our "mortal flesh" will "be changed" when Jesus returns the second time. (See 1 Corinthians 15:52-55 above.)

 

[Eila]

Read the scriptures and gain understanding....Christ will change us, we cannot save ourselves or make ourselves immortal.......

Our body is not immortal. Our fleshly body will return to dust. We who are alive on earth do not have immortal bodies. We are awaiting our glorified bodies. How can anyone make themself immortal? As I quoted previously it is God who forms the spirit in a man.

This text says that the body can be killed and the soul can live:

Matthew 10: "28And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather be afraid of Him who can destroy both soul and body in hell (Gehenna)."

The "soul" in this text is defined by Strongs here:

the soul
New Testament Greek Definition:
5590 psuche {psoo-khay'}
from 5594; TDNT - 9:608,1342; n f
AV - soul 58, life 40, mind 3, heart 1, heartily + 1537 1, not tr 2; 105
1) breath
1a) the breath of life
1a1) the vital force which animates the body and shows itself
in breathing
1a1a) of animals
1a12) of men
1b) life
1c) that in which there is life
1c1) a living being, a living soul
2) the soul
2a) the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions
(our heart, soul etc.)
2b) the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by
the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain
its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul
regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life
2c) the soul as an essence which differs from the body and is not
dissolved by death (distinguished from other parts of the body)

 

[reddogs]

"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Genesis 2:7.

God made us from dust in the beginning so lets see what happens when a person dies?

"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." Ecclesiastes 12:7.

The body turns to dust again, and the spirit goes back to God, who gave it. The spirit of every person who dies--whether righteous or wicked--returns to God at death.
​

So then the "spirit" that returns to God at death is the "breath of life":

"The body without the spirit ["breath of life] is dead." James 2:26. "The spirit of God ["breath of life] is in my nostrils." Job 27:3.

The spirit that returns to God at death is the breath of life. The "spirit" for mortal man does not have any life, wisdom, or feeling after a person dies. It is the "breath of life" and nothing more.

So then lets look at the Soul:

"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Genesis 2:7.

A soul is a living being. A soul is always a combination of two things: body plus breath. A soul cannot exist unless body and breath are combined. The scriptures teaches that we are souls and they can die.

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die." Ezekiel 18:20. "Every living soul died in the sea." Revelation 16:3.

 

[Hismessenger]

Christ will bring us back into the state from which we began. Immortal and eternal. This is from whence we came and to which we will return. God is eternal and all things of His being are eternal. He may change it's being but what is of him can never die. Only be changed from one state to another.

HIsmessenger

 

[reddogs]

Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.......

The understanding of the scriptures is being revealed, even if the rocks have to cry out the truth....

Amen

 

[Eila]

A soul is a living being. A soul is always a combination of two things: body plus breath. A soul cannot exist unless body and breath are combined. The scriptures teaches that we are souls and they can die.

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die." Ezekiel 18:20. "Every living soul died in the sea." Revelation 16:3.

Revelation 6 says "9When the Lamb broke open the fifth seal, I saw at the foot of the altar the souls of those whose lives had been sacrificed for [adhering to] the Word of God and for the testimony they had borne. 10They cried in a loud voice, O [Sovereign] Lord, holy and true, how long now before You will sit in judgment and avenge our blood upon those who dwell on the earth?"

The souls were seen at the altar. The souls were crying out for those who dwell on the earth. The soul definition in the Greek is

5590 psuche {psoo-khay'}
from 5594; TDNT - 9:608,1342; n f
AV - soul 58, life 40, mind 3, heart 1, heartily + 1537 1, not tr 2; 105
1) breath
1a) the breath of life
1a1) the vital force which animates the body and shows itself
in breathing
1a1a) of animals
1a12) of men
1b) life
1c) that in which there is life
1c1) a living being, a living soul
2) the soul
2a) the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions
(our heart, soul etc.)
2b) the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by
the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain
its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul
regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life
2c) the soul as an essence which differs from the body and is not
dissolved by death (distinguished from other parts of the body)

 

[ToxicReboMan]

Our body is not immortal. Our fleshly body will return to dust. We who are alive on earth do not have immortal bodies. We are awaiting our glorified bodies. How can anyone make themself immortal? As I quoted previously it is God who forms the spirit in a man.

This text says that the body can be killed and the soul can live:

Matthew 10: "28And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather be afraid of Him who can destroy both soul and body in hell (Gehenna)."

Ah, bingo.

That passage sounds pretty straight forward to me. Even though this isn't the main teaching of the passage. God can destroy the soul. I therefore wouldn't call our souls immortal.

 

[reddogs]

You forgot many have saints have already been taken out of the grave and already taken up to heaven...

Matthew 27:50-52 "And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.
51At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook and the rocks split. 52The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus' resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people. "

 

[ScottBot]

Thread closed for staff review.

 

[tall73]

This thread is discussing whether immortality is something that each person has as part of their nature, or whether it is something given by God that we do not naturally possess.

It is also looking at the question of what happens to men in death, whether they go immediately to heaven or rest in the grave.

The discussion of these doctrines is permitted in GT.

However, some of the posts here have also been discussing annihilationism, the belief that the wicked do not endure eternal torment, but perish in hell. The topic of annihilationism is not permitted in this forum. If you wish to discuss annihilationism you can visit the Unorthodox Theology section.

Here is the rule that particularly applies in this case:

3.5 Controversial Topics to Be Discussed Only in Certain Forums

A. You will not post content regarding the following subjects anywhere on CF except in Ethics & Morality, Liberal Theology, Christian Philosophy, or any subforums in the Congregation or Recovery* categories:

drug use
gambling
polygamy
extramarital or premarital sexual activity
homosexuality
transsexuality
abortion

*You will not make posts promoting or endorsing any of these subjects in Recovery forums.

B. Controversial doctrines listed below must be discussed in the Unorthodox Theological Doctrines or Liberal Theology forums only:

Full Preterism
Open Theism
Universalism or Universal Salvation
Annihilationism
Freemasonry

 

[tulc]

Did I miss the place where eveyone posted the sites they cut and pasted these from? While I have no problem with it (though it does seem pointless to make these huge cut and past posts) I'm all ways uncomfortable with doing it without attributing it to it's author.
tulc(after all it is their work)

 

[tall73]

Did I miss the place where eveyone posted the sites they cut and pasted these from? While I have no problem with it (though it does seem pointless to make these huge cut and past posts) I'm all ways uncomfortable with doing it without attributing it to it's author.
tulc(after all it is their work)

Please use the report button if you think there is a problem

 

[Oye11]

Did I miss the place where eveyone posted the sites they cut and pasted these from? While I have no problem with it (though it does seem pointless to make these huge cut and past posts) I'm all ways uncomfortable with doing it without attributing it to it's author.
tulc(after all it is their work)

Then ease your discomfort by going back and looking at the bottom of posts #s 20 & 35. Was there all along...

 

[tall73]

Thanks for the clarification. Again, please use the report system if there are issues.

 

[Eila]

Why did the disciples think they saw a ghost? Would Jesus tell a story/parable using incorrect doctrine?

 

[reddogs]

Did I miss the place where eveyone posted the sites they cut and pasted these from? While I have no problem with it (though it does seem pointless to make these huge cut and past posts) I'm all ways uncomfortable with doing it without attributing it to it's author.
tulc(after all it is their work)

PaleHorse is a poster in our forum who wrote essays on different subjects, he quotes from the scripture so your issue is not with style, your issue is with the substance (of the scriptures) presented on this discussion. "Do not complain about the messenger or his scroll, read and discern the message first when the enemy is at the gates" old reddog saying.......

Red

 

[Eila]

In Genesis 25 it talks of Abraham being gathered to his fathers:

"8Then Abraham's spirit was released, and he died at a good (ample, full) old age, an old man, satisfied and satiated, and was gathered to his people. 9And his sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah, in the field of Ephron the son of Zohar the Hittite, which is east of Mamre,
10The field which Abraham purchased from the Hittites. There Abraham was buried with Sarah his wife."



He was not buried with his fathers. He was buried with Sarah his wife in a field he purchased. If we look back at Genesis 15:15 God told Abraham "15And you shall go to your fathers in peace; you shall be buried at a good old (hoary) age."

 

[reddogs]

The breath of life left him, so he died and he went to the grave, was buried as his father and their fathers were.

Genesis 25:7-10
7 Altogether, Abraham lived a hundred and seventy-five years. 8 Then Abraham breathed his last and died at a good old age, an old man and full of years; and he was gathered to his people. 9 His sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah near Mamre, in the field of Ephron son of Zohar the Hittite, 10 the field Abraham had bought from the Hittites. [b] There Abraham was buried with his wife Sarah.

Genesis 15:13-15

13And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;
14And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance. 15And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.

Just like others were buried in their graves:

Joshua 24:28-33
28 Then Joshua sent the people away, each to his own inheritance.

29 After these things, Joshua son of Nun, the servant of the LORD, died at the age of a hundred and ten. 30 And they buried him in the land of his inheritance, at Timnath Serah [d] in the hill country of Ephraim, north of Mount Gaash.
31 Israel served the LORD throughout the lifetime of Joshua and of the elders who outlived him and who had experienced everything the LORD had done for Israel.
32 And Joseph's bones, which the Israelites had brought up from Egypt, were buried at Shechem in the tract of land that Jacob bought for a hundred pieces of silver [e] from the sons of Hamor, the father of Shechem. This became the inheritance of Joseph's descendants. 33 And Eleazar son of Aaron died and was buried at Gibeah, which had been allotted to his son Phinehas in the hill country of Ephraim.

 

[tulc]

PaleHorse is a poster in our forum who wrote essays on different subjects, he quotes from the scripture so your issue is not with style, your issue is with the substance (of the scriptures) presented on this discussion. "Do not complain about the messenger or his scroll, read and discern the message first when the enemy is at the gates" old reddog saying.......

Not exactly. My problem is more that someone went to a lot of trouble researching, studying, writing it down, honing the language just so they can communicate those things to others. And then someone cuts and pastes it not necessarily communicating what the author intendended anymore. I have trouble with that sort of thing.
tulc(sorry about that, it's just a bee in my bonnet sometimes)