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creation vs evolution
- Thread starter applesnoranges
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I would say it lines up just right with 1 Corinthians 2:13. The Bible professes spiritual truths on spiritual matters. It makes no claims about inerrancy with respect to science.
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pastorkevin73
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WHAT? This verse says nothing about evolution. Nice try, try again.
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I never said that passage had anything to do with evolution, 'pastor.'
What I was saying is that the Bible makes no claims to scientific truth. It claims to speak "spiritual truth in spiritual words." Why should we therefore be forced to fit science within the spiritual realm of the Bible? The Bible makes no such claim. You can't just pass this off with a wave of the hand. When you sit down with one of the members from your congregation, do you just tell them they're wrong and move on as you do here? Do you not "speak the truth in love" and explain why they are wrong?
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KomissarSteve
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That's a strawman, if ever I saw one.
The Creation story in Genesis is probably an allegory. Jesus didn't literally mean He is a grape-bearing plant when He said He is the vine, and we, the branches; and the Bible probably doesn't literally mean that the Earth was created in seven days five thousand years ago.
You're putting God in a box to say that the only way to believe in His Word is to take it literally.
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vossler
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Mallon, please help me see where you come up with this. I saw you make a similar remark somewhere else where you also said the Bible doesn't make any claim to historical truth either. Are you saying that unless the Bible makes a specific claim regarding an isolated area, like spirituality, of study then it makes no claim?
BTW, where does it claim to speak, as you say: "spiritual truth in spiritual words"?
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I am simply saying that nowhere in the Bible does it say, "This book is to be taken literally and as a factual account of the history of the earth." What I am not saying is that none of the Bible is to be taken as history. But it is quite evident, from passages like the one I cited, that God is more interested in conveying spiritual matters to us via spiritual words (metaphor? poetry? myth?) than anything else.
Paul make's a big deal about it in 1 Cor 2:13. The Scriptures do not appeal to man's knowledge about the earth, but to man's knowledge about the spirit and our relationship with Christ.
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Jesus is a vine? Are you sure,? I thought he was a piece of wood, 'bout 6 foot by 3, allows ingress and egress from rooms and buildings. (it's a door!)
Or is it about time certain people admitted the existence of allegory and metaphor in the Bible?
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To be fair, YECs do allow room for allegory and metaphor in the Bible. They just insist that what is and isn't allegorical is "obvious" to them.
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vossler
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Yeah but you certainly make it sound like the Bible isn't to be taken serious as a book of history or really anything other than for spiritual matters. It would appear that you allow the Bible to say what you want it to say about matters, in other words you get to pick and choose when it is historical, factual, etc.
I somewhat see your point, but let's not use that to say that all Scripture is somehow spiritual only. Paul isn't here saying that the Bible is "a book of spiritual truths in spiritual words" which is what you claimed. I hope you don't believe that the Bible doesn't speak to us in real and relevant everyday ways, ways that are not always spiritual.
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What makes you say that?
My point is that the Bible is primarily a book about spirituality and relationships, both with God and with one another.
Of course history plays an important role, especially as far as Christ's life and resurrection are concerned. But why must history be the main vehicle for God's spiritual truths? For that matter, if the truths God wants to convey are spiritual (as 1 Cor 2:13 implies), what does the medium (be it poetry, myth, history, etc.) matter? The medium is clearly not the message.
And again, Luther would have accused you of the same in 1539. Does this allegation have any weight anymore?
Regardless, I ask again what does it matter which parts are historical or not? If the spiritual truth that God wanted us to learn in Genesis was that He was the creator of all, then what does it matter whether the creation account was historical or mythical? The details about how it happened aren't spiritual.
Who's saying that???
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Stinker
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There is one passage of New Testament scripture that has been used as a tool to keep Christians completely enslaved to a literal 7 day creation as described in Genesis. This N.T. scripture is: All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; (2Tim.3:16)
Of course we Christians believe that the New Testament contains God word, but many of us understand it differently. I do not think I could ever watch the Discovery Channel if I held a literal interpretation of the Genesis story of creation. Over the last number of years transitional fossils have been found that are just incredible! Yet my faith in God and the Bible are still intact.
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vossler
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No doubt, but I get the impression from you and others that the historical aspects are insignificant. To me the Bible is so rich and deep that it speaks accurately regardless of the subject. There just isn't any reason for me to believe otherwise.
Why can't God use multiple vehicles from which to pass on His truths? I agree the medium isn't important, it's the message. However, unlike any other 'book' the Bible can send multiple messages via the same words, its richness and depth is always producing more and more. You seem to wish to limit it's scope and power to some man derived boundary.
Ahhh...but it all comes together to paint a complete picture. If parts are myth, allegory or legend then the story isn't nearly as compelling.
When you said "It claims to speak "spiritual truth in spiritual words." that, I distinctly got that impression.Who's saying that???
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