Birth Control

[lmnop9876]

Birth control is inevitable in any marriage. No couple can take care of 10+ children (well, some millionaires can ).

simply not true. i am one of 12 kids (soon to be 13) and my parents are everything but millionaires. we've all survived just fine

The only couple I know who raised 10 children, ended up with a couple of schizophrenic sons. And I don't think it was a coincidence.

Just because some peope in the 1920s managed it, does not mean that people in this present time will manage it. We live in a very different world now. It is becoming increasingly difficult, if not impossible, to buy homes, in most civilized countries in the world. People who live in the Western world now, are, increasingly finding themselves in situations where they are homeless and hungry. The third world is moving towards the west. We are already seeing it in Europe.

With the pressures of poverty and homelessness it becomes increasingly difficult, if not impossible, to raise emotionally stable children. How can parents who are placed under extreme stress from financial pressures and homelessness, raise happy, balanced children? It is not possible. Something has to give.

The ideal of a happy, large family with a happy mum and dad and happy children is, just that, an ideal. It rarely, if ever, exists, especially in these modern times. In most countries of the world the reality is very different.

money isn't everything, and quite often what we think is poverty is just going without things we don't actually need. love is the most important thing, we can live without money, but we can't live without love (at least, not live life as it should be lived)

 

[TwinCrier]

Please, if you've never researched this issue and are just going along with what you've been told your whole life, examine it now. http://www.noroomforcontraception.com/
It's imperative we end the deaths caused by these poisons and devices of this self-inflicted castration.

 

[TwinCrier]

One has to wonder how many women have been told by their OB/GYNs that their potential death from a fatal blood clot is an 'acceptable risk' of using hormone based contraceptives?

http://www.noroomforcontraception.com/Articles/Ortho-Evra-Birth-Control-Patch-Lawsuits.htm

 

[rmwilliamsll]

Please, if you've never researched this issue and are just going along with what you've been told your whole life, examine it now. http://www.noroomforcontraception.com/
It's imperative we end the deaths caused by these poisons and devices of this self-inflicted castration.

One has to wonder how many women have been told by their OB/GYNs that their potential death from a fatal blood clot is an 'acceptable risk' of using hormone based contraceptives?

http://www.noroomforcontraception.co...h-Lawsuits.htm

i sincerely hope that people reading this thread do not expect to get good medical advice that they can trust from a website on the net. yes, by all means read as much and as diverse a collection of opinions on whatever topic you need to. but before you get upset or carried away by strong emotions, or worse yet worried and concerned about what you read, talk to real live people you can trust, your doctor, your Pastors, trusted and wise friends.

simply put.
do not trust anything you read on the net without good colloboration from people you can trust.
there are not only wolves out there (or is it in here?) but there are sincere and well spoken(and well written) people who are just as sincerely wrong and therefore potentailly dangerous.

truth is sometimes hard to figure out, especially if it is a burning issue like BC, the stronger your emotional pull towards an issue, the more important it is to resist that temptation and let logic and good reason lead your way, not emotion.


when you go to a new (to you) website, poke around, find out who they are. if they don't tell you, assume they are hiding it for a neferious reason.

The founders of No Room for Contraception are Catholic, however this is not a Catholic organization. The purpose and goal of No Room for Contraception is to expose the harms that artificial contraception brings to marriage and society, and this goal does not require belief in any religious tradition. The Catholic Church has been the only major Christian religion to firmly oppose artificial contraception. Her many documents clearly and prophetically explain this teaching. Because of Her firm leadership against the use of chemical contraception, No Room for Contraception has links to the major Catholic Church documents on this topic, and draws heavily from the works of Catholic theologians and scholars.

from: http://www.noroomforcontraception.com/Resources/Birth-Control-FAQ.htm

for instance, from the website linked to above.

 

[Ino]

Please, if you've never researched this issue and are just going along with what you've been told your whole life, examine it now. http://www.noroomforcontraception.com/
It's imperative we end the deaths caused by these poisons and devices of this self-inflicted castration.

*sigh

 

[fuzzymel]

The site was full of opinions with no scriptual backup.

 

[tulc]

what business is it of ours if people use (or don't) use birth control? That's between them isn't it?
tulc(seems a little...snoopy to me)

 

[SallyNow]

Here are my views on BC (yes, I know I'm just a kid, but I still have views):

I can't stand it when people go on birth control, then say, "If God really wanted us to have another child, a little tiny pill isn't going to stop Him!" That makes no sense.

And, not too mention, that is NOT always true. Yes, God can do absolutely ANYTHING, but I believe that sometimes He respects our free will, and if we are consciously trying to prevent something (like pregnancy) from happening, the above often repeated quote is not alway going to happen, and then we missed out on a great blessing from the Lord.

Secondly, I believe it is up to the husband, the spiritual leader of the household, to decide whether or not his wife goes on birth control or not (given he's been given insight from God), because he is responsible for his household and therefore, can make the decisions for his house.

But all in all, I think a couple should totally and completely ask God how many children HE wants that couple to have, not how many children that couple wants to have. If God wants you to have five children, yet you only have two (because you only want two), that would be disobedience.

A couple should make the decision together. A good husband will not be a dictator, but will instead exepct his wife to be a reasonable, stable adult who can make decisions just as well as he can, and will want her to be a partner, not an employee.

The decision to take birth control is a medical one, too. Some conditions require the hormones in birth control. On the other hand, some women should not take birth control. A husband should want his wife to discuss the issue with her doctor, and make the right medical decision. A husband will not let his ego get in the way of his wife's health.

. Women were nothing but breeders who turned out babies like rabbits before birth control...if that's is not objectifying a woman I don't know what is.

The divorce rate is higher because of no fault divorce.

Also spousal abuse is now frowned upon so people experiencing an abusive marriage can divorce without being ridiculed..

Hmmmm.... does that make a baby akin to a flood?



So the person who will not become pregnent is to make the decision? Does God only give insight to husbands? Do Christian wives not have the Holy Spitit within them? Does GOd not talk to women? I seem to remember God sending an angel to Mary and to Joseph.



So my husband and I should turn the decision over to a someone who has never had sex, never been pregnent, never raised a child, doesn't have a medical degree and will not help financially support any child we might have?

That is totally wrong. An IUD makes the uterus hostile to the zygote so it cannot implant and dies. Pills sometimes prevent ovulation, but if not, they also cause abortion in the same way an IUD does.
http://www.prolife.com/BIRTHCNT.html

I am going to take my medical advice from doctors and those who are experts in human reproductive biology, not from propaganda sites.

This is basically a side topic on the issue, and potentially a whole other debate in itself. The question is: if an egg is fertalized, is it now a life? Or is it only a life once it is firmly attached to the uterine wall?

It's a difficult subject. I tend to lean towards believing it's a life at that earliest stage. But then many fertilized eggs don't attach to the lining for all kinds of reasons, even when no b/c is used. So do we go so far as to say that the woman is having miscarrages? It's a tough one. So for me, I couldn't use the methods that would cause the fertilized egg to be rejected, nor would I recommend it to anyone (sort of an err on the side of caution, I guess). But I can't condemn anyone for using it either, because it's just not black and white.

That raises some good questions. What about ectopic pregnancies? They have no chance of survival. And a high minority of fertilized eggs will never even become fetuses due to natural reasons that prevent them from being accepted on the uteran wall. Not to mention, what about identical twins? Are they only one soul, considering for the first while they are same fertilized egg? They begin as one zygote, and then seperate into two embroys.

Please, if you've never researched this issue and are just going along with what you've been told your whole life, examine it now. http://www.noroomforcontraception.com/
It's imperative we end the deaths caused by these poisons and devices of this self-inflicted castration.

I have no room for propaganda sites when it comes my health. I will listen to doctors and human reproductive experts first and foremost.

 

[TwinCrier]

what business is it of ours if people use (or don't) use birth control? That's between them isn't it?
tulc(seems a little...snoopy to me)

So you don't care that millions of people are chemically and surgically castrating themselves? Most people whould consider it an insult to be told not to reproduce. I'm sure I would get warned on this forum that that is considered flaming, even if the person proudly proclaims they are using birth control voluntarily. Think about that.
http://www.pregnantpause.org/abort/untold.htm
Please Christian people, stop doing this to yourselves.

 

[rmwilliamsll]

chemically and surgically castrating themselves

perhaps you can explain how condoms do this?
a claim that even this inflammatory link does not make.

i ALWAYS suspect the motives of people who heighten the passions in an already emotionally loaded topic by using inflammatory language like: castrating. It is not meant to be informative but mere propaganda. Experience says that these people are seldom interested in a discussion or a sharing of viewpoints but rather are interested in getting people swept off their feet and moving-at their directions.

for shame, i expect better of believers.

 

[Ino]

Twincrier: are you willing to take on the responsibility of spreading false knowledge and propaganda?
The sites you're referring to are just that.

I just hope that NO ONE follows those links. It could be dangerous. On so many levels.

God Bless you all, equally.

 

[TwinCrier]

What's dangerous is birth control. Most people are totally uninformed of the side effects because they are downplayed by pharmacists and doctors.
Accusations of Lies and propaganda should fall to those who promote altering the body as God designed it with devices and chemicals and surgery and turning sex into fruitless recreation instead of the loving act it was meant to be. It's time to stop following the world.
http://www.cwfa.org/articles/7168/CWA/life/index.htm

Dr. Shaun Biggers of New York Presbyterian Hospital says that very few women are expected to die from Ortho Evra. He told Cuomo: “Based on our best estimates — less than two per 100,000 women less than the age of 35 will die from complications of the patch.” Yet more than twice that number have already died.

Pregnancy is a normal and natural state of the female body, not a disease.

 

[rmwilliamsll]

i am surprised at the fact that none of the websites TC has linked to above have legal notices trying to absolve themselves of legal responsibility for giving unsolicited medical advice.

when medical doctors are being warning that even answering emails can create legal liability:

Patients have eagerly embraced the Internet and its email capacity to increase their knowledge and access to medical information. Along with access to countless patient support "chat rooms" and an ever-increasing volume of full text health and medical literature, the Internet also offers a virtually barrier-less opportunity to engage physicians in email dialogue. While this opportunity is seductive and cost-free to patients, physicians should exercise care and wariness in their email exchanges with patients - especially if the patient is unknown to them.
...
This brief commentary will summarize the common law legal risks of responding and offering advice or diagnostic suggestions to patients over the Internet. It will focus primarily on the concept of duty and how it has evolved in the United States. (Medical negligence cases in the United States are state law causes of action. Thus there are jurisdictional differences from state to state. However, the concept of duty as discussed in this article is well-settled law, and the consensus in virtually all U.S. jurisdictions.)

from: http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1761858

i am surprised that laypeople are treading where the professionals and those with a great deal more knowledge and understanding are reluctant to go.

it appears that the websites are offering medical advice without the legal disclaimers that you see everywhere else:
http://www.marchex.com/aboutus/terms-of-use-mdnh.html

i wonder what the legal liability is for either the poster of these links or even CF for faciliting such ****

due to the problem of persistency on the net, it is possible that people can google into this discussion 10 years from now, when the laws and social customs catch up to the dynamical changing technology we are using here.

it is one thing to link to these sites.
another to continue to do so and to defend it as a good and godly thing to do, when consistently warned by mulitiple people that this is an unwise thing to be doing.

i would suggest to TC that she google:
giving medical advice laws United States and her local state
to see what kinds of liability can be formed by inappropriate words.

 

[tulc]

So you don't care that millions of people are chemically and surgically castrating themselves?

What I'm saying is it isn't any of our business. They are adults it's between them and their partners not me and them.
tulc(just my thought)

 

[Lumen]

Here are my views on BC (yes, I know I'm just a kid, but I still have views):

I can't stand it when people go on birth control, then say, "If God really wanted us to have another child, a little tiny pill isn't going to stop Him!" That makes no sense.

And, not too mention, that is NOT always true. Yes, God can do absolutely ANYTHING, but I believe that sometimes He respects our free will, and if we are consciously trying to prevent something (like pregnancy) from happening, the above often repeated quote is not alway going to happen, and then we missed out on a great blessing from the Lord.

Secondly, I believe it is up to the husband, the spiritual leader of the household, to decide whether or not his wife goes on birth control or not (given he's been given insight from God), because he is responsible for his household and therefore, can make the decisions for his house.

But all in all, I think a couple should totally and completely ask God how many children HE wants that couple to have, not how many children that couple wants to have. If God wants you to have five children, yet you only have two (because you only want two), that would be disobedience.

So what is the wife, just a utility for sex and babies?

If it had been up to my father to be the spiritual leader, we would all have been lost.

 

[elsbeth]

Please, if you've never researched this issue and are just going along with what you've been told your whole life, examine it now.http://

As a woman I've dealt directly with contraceptive issues. That site is inflamatory on purpose.
Because there are risks associated with hormonal birth control (pills, patches, rings, etc.) CAN'T be used as an argument against allowing women to use them. If they choose to take the risk that should be their right.
There are also MANY forms of birth control that simply block the sperm from getting to the egg. These are much safer, if not quite as effective.

 

[TwinCrier]

So what is the wife, just a utility for sex and babies?

If it had been up to my father to be the spiritual leader, we would all have been lost.

Isn't that what birth control makes her? The woman poisons her bodies, aborts her children or has her reproductive organs sliced up so the man can get sexual gratification without the responsibility of a blessed child. Not sure what the second sentence is supposed to mean in relation to the subject.

If we are truly talking about 'informed adults' then they know all this and shouldn't take offense at the truth. But many people just use contraceptives because it's what society says to do. I call that intellectual rationalization of sin.

 

[Lumen]

Isn't that what birth control makes her? The woman poisons her bodies, aborts her children or has her reproductive organs sliced up so the man can get sexual gratification without the responsibility of a blessed child. Not sure what the second sentence is supposed to mean in relation to the subject.

If we are truly talking about 'informed adults' then they know all this and shouldn't take offense at the truth. But many people just use contraceptives because it's what society says to do. I call that intellectual rationalization of sin.

There's an invention called a condom.

 

[Ino]

TC:
Blocking the way of sperm is a sin?
I can't help but notice you only have four. What gives?

 

[TwinCrier]

I had two misscarriages as well. What's your point? Shouldn't I have been cursed with twenty kids by now due to my lack of faith in rubbers and horse urine tablets?