Hellenic NeoPagans blocked from using Greek Temple

[Ceridwen]

The Greek Orthodox Church seems to be preventing a group of Pagans from using an ancient pagan Temple.

A group of worshippers plans a ceremony Sunday to honor the ancient Greek gods, at Athens' 1,800-year-old Temple of Olympian Zeus. Greece's Culture Ministry has declared the central Athens site off-limits, but worshippers say they will defy the decision. The Temple of Olympian Zeus, also known as the Olympieion, is an Greco-Roman temple in the center of Athens, southeast of the Acropolis. It was begun in the 6th century BC, and completed in the reign of the Emperor Hadrian in the 2nd century AD:

This article states that the Greek Orthodox Church is opposed to the ceremony. It says: "The church regards ancient religious practices as pagan."

What do you think about the use of ancient pagan sacred sites for modern pagan worship? Do you think that it is good for the GOC to oppose pagan worship? Is the Orthodox Church opposed to non-Christian piety and liturgy?

 

[Ceridwen]

Here is another view of the massive pagan temple:

 

[buzuxi02]

The Greek Orthodox Church is 100 percent correct in not wanting this ceremony. These neo-pagans were started by a swede citizen of greek descent who has nothing to do any longer with the country of Greece. Secondly the ancient ruins and temples of Greece are seen by the greek orthodox of greece as their cultural inheritance. The greek Orthodox who are 97% of the country believe these ancient ruins are their property, not the neo-pagans whose leader is a professor in swiden. This would become more apparent in a smaller city or village, where the locals consider these ruins to be the private property of their ancestora which has been passed down to them by birth right.

 

[Ceridwen]

In 423, the Christian Emperor Theodosius II ordered that all those who persist in practicing Greek paganism be punished by imprisonment and torture. In 426 CE Theodosius II, grandson of Theodosius I, issued an edict to destroy all pagan temples. By his orders in 426, this very temple to Zeus in Athens was burned and the sanctuary was destroyed. 1600 years later certain people wish to resume certain liturgies.

 

[buzuxi02]

Ceridwen,
Im an ethnic greek, those sites belong to me. Not to some foreigners claiming they are the true greeks.
The Parthenon was an Orthodox Church longer than it was a pagan temple.
The greek Orthodox Christians of Greece are the true property owners of those sites, not some new religion invented 10 years ago

 

[Ceridwen]

It seems a little audacious and nervy to deny their legitimacy based on the discontinuity of practice of Greek paganism given the historic outlawing and persecution of their religion. In any case, "Ellinais" -- the group petitioning to have prayers on the site -- is directed in Greece by Greeks.

 

[Philothei]

Ceridwen,
Im an ethnic greek, those sites belong to me. Not to some foreigners claiming they are the true greeks.
The Parthenon was an Orthodox Church longer than it was a pagan temple.
The greek Orthodox Christians of Greece are the true property owners of those sites, not some new religion invented 10 years ago

Further more these ancient temples are our historical heritage not some religious sites of worship. The neo pagans could ask to built a new temple if they wish. These are monuments that belong to the rightful people of Greece who in their majority happen to be Orthodox Christian.

Yes Christians killed people to get established and demolioshed the idols we cannot deny historical facts. Any group that get fanatical is capable of acts of violence. Let's compare it to the Diocletian persecution of Christians.

Again our monuments cannot be used in worship of the very tiny minority I do not believe it is right. Acropolis has an Orthdox church built in the Parthenon, I haven't seen the GOC asking to get it back to use it as a church??? The Greek Govnt is wise to deny them any rights of worhip.

God bless,
Philothei

 

[buzuxi02]

dear ceridwan,

"Their" religion was never outlawed because it didnt exist back then.
This movement is led by one Tryphon Olympios who is a 25 year college professor at stockholme, his greek roots are limited and is simply a swede. A leading figure of this movement is one named Cornelia Bushbeck from Grermany. Hardly a greek name nothing greek about it whatsoever

The word 'ELLINES" HELLENES is greek for "greek". Those ruins do not belong to neo-pagans but to the greek people which i am one. I consider those temples MY personal property by birthright. They were built by my ancestors who now all are Orhodox christians. The direct lineage of the ancient greek religion leads today to ethnic greeks who are all Greek Orthodox and have preserved them until now. Those pagans are tresspassing on private property, my property.
The myth that christians persecuted pagans to the point of genocide is a lie and many greek professors have set the record straight by the false accusations by these pagans. There were never organized "witchhunts" to kill off pagans, in fact the last part of greece to fully embrace Orthodoxy was in the Mani in the late 9th century and they did it on their own.

 

[VickiY]

Above and beyond the issue of cultural heritage, there is the issue of use further ruining the ruins. Tourists visiting a site are not allowed very close to many of the structures remaining. This is, in part, because they are unsafe, and in part, because they will be lost to the future if they are handled, trampled, etc.

With other sites, there are other issues. At Hieropolis, for instance, there are areas of the ampitheatre that contain a poison gas that allowed the pagan "prophets" to hallucinate, but which are now loosely chained (ie, you could get in) by the Turkish government, with signs up, stating it is dangerous. Do we then allow pagans to use those sites as they once had? Until someone dies?

Again, these neo-pagan groups merely wish to legitimize themselves by worshipping in the ruins.

Also, why SHOULDN'T the Greek Orthodox Church speak out against allowing pagan practices which the Church opposes? They are the official state religion of Greece. Not the only religion, but if a religion isn't going to speak out in opposition to practices it teaches are in opposition to the Church, it'd be fairly mealy-mouthed and "kumbaya-ish".

 

[Greg the byzantine]

That's like us trying to storm Agia Sophia and performing a Liturgy there. We would more likely than not be shot at.

I thought pagans were all into that Worship the gods everywhere. The Ancients believed that the gods dwelt in rivers and trees and bushes and flowers. Why not go worship there.

These people are just trying to make a scene.

The Greek Orthodox Church is standing up against these people because they can and should. What right do these people have to perform their pagan ceremonies at this Ancient Site? Let them go build there own temple, rent some room or whatever put up some concrete statue and worship it.

To the church paganism is a delusion, and Christianity is seen as breaking the people from their delusions. It can even be seen in the prayers and services of the church.

Kontakion 5

Priest: Having sighted the divinely-moving star, the Magi followed its radiance; and holding it as a lamp, by it they sought a powerful King; and having reached the Unreachable One, they rejoiced, shouting to Him: Alleluia!

Ikos 5

Priest: The sons of the Chaldees saw in the hands of the Virgin Him Who with His hand made man. And knowing Him to be the Master, even though He had taken the form of a servant, they hastened to serve Him with gifts, and to cry to Her Who is blessed:

Rejoice, Mother of the Unsetting Star:

Rejoice, dawn of the mystic day!

Rejoice, Thou Who didst extinguish the furnace of error:

Rejoice, Thou Who didst enlighten the initiates of the Trinity!

Rejoice, Thou Who didst banish from power the inhuman tyrant:

Rejoice, Thou Who didst show us Christ the Lord, the Lover of mankind!

Rejoice, Thou Who redeemest from pagan worship:

Rejoice, Thou Who dost drag us from the works of mire!

Rejoice, Thou Who didst quench the worship of fire:

Rejoice, Thou Who rescuest from the flame of the passions!

Rejoice, guide of the faithful to chastity:

Rejoice, gladness of all generations!

Rejoice, O Bride Unwedded!

http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/m_akathist_e.htm

 

[ufonium2]

On a related note, my friends and I have declared ourselves Neo-Mayans. Never mind that I, the leader of the Neo-Mayans, am from Kentucky, of Polish and Turkish ancestry, and have never seen Central America. The Mayan ruins are our birthright, because we said so. Therefore, starting next week, we're going to start performing our Neo-Mayan rituals, which consist of drinking beer and watching televised sports, on important Mayan ruins throughout Mexico. I'm sure the Mexican government will be cool with that.

 

[RobNJ]

A video hookup forr all human sacrifices will be available online, yes?

On a related note, my friends and I have declared ourselves Neo-Mayans. Never mind that I, the leader of the Neo-Mayans, am from Kentucky, of Polish and Turkish ancestry, and have never seen Central America. The Mayan ruins are our birthright, because we said so. Therefore, starting next week, we're going to start performing our Neo-Mayan rituals, which consist of drinking beer and watching televised sports, on important Mayan ruins throughout Mexico. I'm sure the Mexican government will be cool with that.

 

[Dust and Ashes]

On a related note, my friends and I have declared ourselves Neo-Mayans. Never mind that I, the leader of the Neo-Mayans, am from Kentucky, of Polish and Turkish ancestry, and have never seen Central America. The Mayan ruins are our birthright, because we said so. Therefore, starting next week, we're going to start performing our Neo-Mayan rituals, which consist of drinking beer and watching televised sports, on important Mayan ruins throughout Mexico. I'm sure the Mexican government will be cool with that.

Televised sports?!?

Everyone knows that real, true Neo-Mayans drink beer and watch B movies and no service is considered canonical if there are no beef nachos.

Tch...heretics...

 

[Oblio]

nm

 

[Rick of Wessex]

Greg,

These people are just trying to make a scene.

The Greek Orthodox Church is standing up against these people because they can and should. What right do these people have to perform their pagan ceremonies at this Ancient Site?

I'll second that. These seo-pagans movements are simply silly, because not a single one of these groups has any historical links to the ancient religions they claim to follow - in fact, they are nothing but New-Age, Romanticism-influenced cults.

For instance, Wicca was founded by an English psychologist in the 1950's; Nordic neo-paganism was founded by an Icelandic Romantic poet in 1972; modern "druidism" was founded by the British pantheistic philosopher John Tolland in 1717, and so on.

So, whenever we expose these movements as the historical frauds they are, we're are not being "audacious and nervy", but instead we're being historically acurate.

Rick

 

[Matrona]

While I'm not at all comfortable with denying anyone a reasonable freedom of religious expression, it sounds to me like these ruins are very fragile. The neo-pagan group most certainly does not have the right to do anything that would deprive future generations of a chance to see these ruins for themselves. They should hold back out of respect and worship someplace nearby that's safe.

 

[Padraig]

It seems a little audacious and nervy to deny their legitimacy based on the discontinuity of practice of Greek paganism given the historic outlawing and persecution of their religion. In any case, "Ellinais" -- the group petitioning to have prayers on the site -- is directed in Greece by Greeks.

A priest friend of mine wrote a wonderful post on neo-pagans. You can read it here.

In peace,
Dn Kevin

 

[JasonV]

Greg,



I'll second that. These seo-pagans movements are simply silly, because not a single one of these groups has any historical links to the ancient religions they claim to follow - in fact, they are nothing but Romanticism-influenced cults.

For instance, Wicca was founded by an English psychologist in the 1950's; Nordic neo-paganism was founded by an Icelandic Romantic poet in 1972; modern "druidism" was founded by the British pantheistic philosopher John Tolland in 1717, and so on.

So, whenever we expose these movements as the historical frauds they are, we're are not being "audacious and nervy", but instead we're being historically acurate.

Rick

Rick, are you denying the legitimacy of a religion based on time? Are you trying to impose your own beliefs on another religion?

 

[JasonV]

While I'm not at all comfortable with denying anyone a reasonable freedom of religious expression, it sounds to me like these ruins are very fragile. The neo-pagan group most certainly does not have the right to do anything that would deprive future generations of a chance to see these ruins for themselves. They should hold back out of respect and worship someplace nearby that's safe.

A voice of reason.

 

[repentant]

Are Neo-Pagans that group that worships the Matrix?