what was the first recorded religion?

[daveyboii]

what was the first religion as far as evidence goes... also the scrolls which were often refered to having been used by the pharacies in the Bible, were they simply the old testiment? if not were they ever found?

 

[KerrMetric]

what was the first religion as far as evidence goes... also the scrolls which were often refered to having been used by the pharacies in the Bible, were they simply the old testiment? if not were they ever found?

Hinduism by written record.

 

[busterdog]

The names of the stars, which God attended to in Gen. 2, suggests that the original religion was the Judeo Christian religion.

Spika in the constellation virgo suggests that the story of the virgin birth of God was older than the religions that appropriated them. The story of Tammuz and Semiramis appears to be an adaptation of an older prophecy of the Messiah.

 

[KerrMetric]

The names of the stars, which God attended to in Gen. 2, suggests that the original religion was the Judeo Christian religion.

Spika in the constellation virgo suggests that the story of the virgin birth of God was older than the religions that appropriated them. The story of Tammuz and Semiramis appears to be an adaptation of an older prophecy of the Messiah.

What on Earth are you on about?

 

[rmwilliamsll]

The names of the stars, which God attended to in Gen. 2, suggests that the original religion was the Judeo Christian religion.

Spika in the constellation virgo suggests that the story of the virgin birth of God was older than the religions that appropriated them. The story of Tammuz and Semiramis appears to be an adaptation of an older prophecy of the Messiah.

wow.
i guess i didn't see that one coming. Judeo-Christianity predates Zoroasterism? Avesta?
predates Hinduism? Vedas, Puranas, Bhagavad-Gita?

The oldest parts of the Hebrew Scriptures are probably the Song of Deborah in Judges 5 and potentially Job, which is notoriously difficult both to date and assign to a particular place of origin. The Torah seems to be dated between 900BC and 1200BC, conservatively.

The texts of the Avesta were collated over several hundred years. The most important portion, the Gathas, in Gathic Avestan, are the hymns thought to have been composed by Zarathushtra (Zoroaster) himself, and date linguistically to around 1000 BCE.

from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avesta
a not bad article that is scholarly and therefore dates much more recently than adherents would. same phenomena happens with the Bible.

Philological and linguistic considerations suggest an age of well over 3000 years for the most recent strata, with the oldest strata going back to the early second millenium BCE. Variant opinions propose alternative dates based on contextual references to geography, climate, astronomical observations, etc. For example, descriptions of an extremely cold climate leads some to believe that the Vedas are close to 20,000 years old, but there are some modern scholars who think that the number is exaggerated and should be about 5000. No matter what the age, it is the belief by many these texts were and are the oldest in the worl

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedas

i don't believe that there are any scholars who would disagree with the order Veda>>Avesta>Torah from oldest to youngest.

i really didn't expect anyone to propose that Hebraic culture which is clearly a deriviative of Mesopotamian* with immense Egyptian influence predated either Zoroasterism or Hinduism.....

but so goes discussion forum threads.



btw:

The names of the stars, which God attended to in Gen. 2. where again are the names of the stars in Gen 2? and why is this evidence for the antiquity of Genesis?

notes:
* for which reason all the most ancient Mesopotamian and Egyptian documents predate anything from the ancient Hebrews. so the order ought to be amended to:
Veda>>Vesta=Egyptian=Mesopotamian>Torah
== symbolizes concurrent cultures, within our ability to measure their dates.

then we can look at China. there are some very ancient Taoist elixer and medicine documents. plus tortise shell and ox scapula writing.

 

[jds1977]

I believe he's referring to the Mazaroth...the original zodiac before it was perverted by the Babylonians.

 

[rmwilliamsll]

I believe he's referring to the Mazaroth...the original zodiac before it was perverted by the Babylonians.

perverted*?
the Babylonians are among the original and best naked eye astronomers that we have good records for.

this appears to be a reference to:
Job 38:32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?

1) Mazzaroth

a) the 12 signs of the Zodiac and their 36 associated constellations

i won't base a whole lot on a word that appears only a single time in the Bible and in Job. plus the word itself is apparently derived from Chaldean.....

all from blueletterbible.org

notes:
* i really don't understand the loaded language.
plus why do Christians wish to depreciate the work and lives of anyone? Especially if that is a result more of ignorance than understanding the phenomena. The ancient Persians and Mesopotamians probably discoved the precession of the equinoxes. and amazing feat for long term record keeping and careful observation.

see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precession_of_the_equinoxes

 

[FranciscanJ]

An argument often brought up by Jesus-mythers is that Zoastrianism influenced Christianity.

Check this out:

http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/zoroaster.html

As for the dates I found this interesting:

http://www.tektonics.org/guest/antzoro.htm

These guys have a great series on the copycat theories of skeptics. The whole series is here:

http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/copycathub.html

As for the first religion, I heard something about a bear cult with neanderthals as far as evidence goes.

Really I don't believe we have a way of knowing what people thought before writing or these rituals.

I believe all these religions were just man trying to reach God, where in Christ, God became man to reach us.

 

[jds1977]

Psalm 19
1The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

2Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. 4Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
Who's speech is the Psalmist talking about? the speech of the stars, maybe? In the context of the verses, it seems reasonable to say that verse 2-4 are referring to the heavens of v.1. Gen 1:14 describes day 4 when He created the "lights in the firmament" for signs. There's a lot of interesting information about the mazzaroth...check out Chuck Missler http://www.blueletterbible.org/audio_video/missler_chuck/Gen/09250.ram

i really don't understand the loaded language.
plus why do Christians wish to depreciate the work and lives of anyone?

Good grief...why must you over-analyze this word and my motives?

1. To cause to turn away from what is right, proper, or good; corrupt.
2. To bring to a bad or worse condition; debase.
3. To put to a wrong or improper use; misuse. See Synonyms at corrupt.
4. To interpret incorrectly; misconstrue or distort: [SIZE=+0]an analysis that perverts the meaning of the poem.[/SIZE]

All I'm saying is that starting w/ the Babylonians, they began to change the meaning of the testimony of the stars toward what we now know as the zodiac.

The ancient Persians and Mesopotamians probably discoved the precession of the equinoxes. and amazing feat for long term record keeping and careful observation.

Your keyword there is "probably". You don't know, I don't know...I'd like to believe that even Adam knew the testimony of the stars and taught it to Seth, etc...
http://mazzaroth.com/ http://www.answers.com/topic/mazzaroth

 

[Assyrian]

Is there even a suggestion in scripture that Adam 'knew the testimony of the stars and taught it to Seth'?

The bible has no problem with the leaders of God's people receiving the best education from the great civilisations of the day.
Dan 1:3 Then the king commanded Ashpenaz, his chief eunuch, to bring some of the people of Israel, both of the royal family and of the nobility,
4 youths without blemish, of good appearance and skillful in all wisdom, endowed with knowledge, understanding learning, and competent to stand in the king's palace, and to teach them the literature and language of the Chaldeans.
Acts 7:22 And Moses was instructed in all the wisdom of the Egyptians, and he was mighty in his words and deeds.
Why shouldn't we accept the Israelites learned their astronomy and science from Egypt and Babylon?

 

[jds1977]

Is there even a suggestion in scripture that Adam 'knew the testimony of the stars and taught it to Seth'?

Not necessarily, but it doesn't say that Adam taught Cain and Abel about "offerings". The scriptures just imply it. Here's a link to some info about Seth and the Mazzaroth...I don't know how accurate it is, but it's interesting: http://philologos.org/__eb-mazzaroth/101.htm#questions

Why shouldn't we accept the Israelites learned their astronomy and science from Egypt and Babylon?

With the verses you quoted, it's pretty clear that some did. I wonder if these groups might have received their info. from their descendants of the "Babel" families... But, I do take a literal interpretation of Genesis, so that would explain it for me.

 

[pastorkevin73]

On record, I don't know who the first recorded (as in on some kind of writting. But the first religion would be Judeo-Christian since we see in Genesis that Adam walked with God in the Garden of Eden.

 

[KerrMetric]

On record, I don't know who the first recorded (as in on some kind of writting. But the first religion would be Judeo-Christian since we see in Genesis that Adam walked with God in the Garden of Eden.

There are religions that predate our Judeo-Christian religion by millenia.

 

[pastorkevin73]

There are religions that predate our Judeo-Christian religion by millenia.

Ohh! In writting maybe, but not when it comes to believing the ONE TRUE GOD! Actually there is no other god, only idols. There is ONE GOD, our God, therefore Judeo-Christian was the first and only true religion.

 

[KerrMetric]

Ohh! In writting maybe, but not when it comes to believing the ONE TRUE GOD! Actually there is no other god, only idols. There is ONE GOD, our God, therefore Judeo-Christian was the first and only true religion.

Well if you define things in that manner you can get the answer you want. Of course, such a tatic is equally valid for Muslims, Hindus and whatever other faith.

You might as well not even post on this thread since what you are doing has no intellectual value to the question.

 

[FranciscanJ]

Depends on what you mean by "Judeo-Christian".

If you mean the followers of Christ in the 1st century and onward, then yes, Christ in the flesh, and the crucifixion is certainly predated.

 

[Assyrian]

Not necessarily, but it doesn't say that Adam taught Cain and Abel about "offerings". The scriptures just imply it. Here's a link to some info about Seth and the Mazzaroth...I don't know how accurate it is, but it's interesting: http://philologos.org/__eb-mazzaroth/101.htm#questions
With the verses you quoted, it's pretty clear that some did. I wonder if these groups might have received their info. from their descendants of the "Babel" families... But, I do take a literal interpretation of Genesis, so that would explain it for me.

I don't think there is anything that needs to be explained here, even for a literalist. What is the problem with saying that the great civilizations of Mesopotamia and Egypt came up with astronomy and science before the Hebrews? I can understand Jewish national pride coming up with tradition that it was really their Seth who invented astronomy not the Egyptian god Set. But that has nothing to do with the bible, interpreted literally or otherwise. The bible doesn't claim Seth invented astronomy, in fact it doesn't mention the name of a single astronomical body before Abraham came out Mesopotamia. The creation account doesn't even give names to the sun and moon, they are simply called 'lights'.

The age of these civilisations is another matter, but who came up with astronomy should not be an issue.

 

[Assyrian]

Ohh! In writting maybe, but not when it comes to believing the ONE TRUE GOD! Actually there is no other god, only idols. There is ONE GOD, our God, therefore Judeo-Christian was the first and only true religion.

So where would a Canaanite priest like Melchizedek fit in there?

 

[Deamiter]

Note that the OP PROBABLY wasn't asking when the first "true religion" started. It was asking what is the first recorded religion.

This discussion has got nothing to do with which religion worships the real God (we're all Christians here so we all agree). It's asking about what groups of people believed what and when.

 

[KerrMetric]

Note that the OP PROBABLY wasn't asking when the first "true religion" started. It was asking what is the first recorded religion.

This discussion has got nothing to do with which religion worships the real God (we're all Christians here so we all agree). It's asking about what groups of people believed what and when.

Exactly. When people were daubing on cave walls 40,000 years ago they undoubtedly had religion - but it sure wasn't Judeo-Christian in nature. There is plenty of neolithic evidence of worship and our Lord wasn't the target.