T'was the night

[lemmings]

Because they couldn't beat him in an argument they attacked his character instead.

FoeHammer.

Do you mean like Creationists when they say that Hitler believed in Evolution or Darwin rejected evolution? It has even been getting bad enough that some have fabricated entire people.

 

[Baggins]

Because they couldn't beat him in an argument they attacked his character instead.

FoeHammer.

Who couldn't, are you suggesting that people who attack Jesus' character do so because he beats them in debate. Considering that outside of the bible there is no evidence he even existed this is a pretty tall story.

Where are these debates?

Or are you comparing yourself to Jesus here? Isn't that a bit blasphemous.

 

[franklin]

You'd better celebrate Christmas. Because, as I said, Santa Clause is coming!

Wow! Santa is really scary looking these days eh?

 

[lemmings]

Wow! Santa is really scary looking these days eh?

The guy only works one day a year, what's he gona do with all that free time?

 

[Lilandra]

It wouldn't be a CvsE Christmas without everyone gathered round to read Aron's Pagan Christmas Carol
and debate the true meaning of Christmas.

Feliz Navidad Mi Amigo.

[FONT=Times New Roman, adobe-times, Times]From out of the cold dark night, he comes [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, adobe-times, Times]dragged through the bitter abyss [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, adobe-times, Times]by a spell-bound team of cloven hooved beasts.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Times New Roman, adobe-times, Times]An obese hairy remnant of pagan lore, [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, adobe-times, Times]clad in animal hides of the deepest crimson [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, adobe-times, Times]and cracking his whip with a perverse laugh. [/FONT]​

[FONT=Times New Roman, adobe-times, Times]He comes with a list of names, [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, adobe-times, Times]looking for the homes of little children.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, adobe-times, Times]Locked doors and bolted windows cannot keep him out.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Times New Roman, adobe-times, Times]He knows where you live.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, adobe-times, Times]He sees you when you're sleeping. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, adobe-times, Times]And he knows when you've been BAD. [/FONT]​

[FONT=Times New Roman, adobe-times, Times]So jump in bed and cover your head, 'cause....[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, adobe-times, Times]hang it up and say your prayers, 'cause....[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, adobe-times, Times]SANTA CLAUS is COMING![/FONT]​

Who says atheists have no holiday spirit.

 

[FoeHammer]

Do you mean like Creationists when they say that Hitler believed in Evolution or Darwin rejected evolution? It has even been getting bad enough that some have fabricated entire people.

That would be a question for creationists that you allege do these things.

FoeHammer.

 

[FoeHammer]

Who couldn't, are you suggesting that people who attack Jesus' character do so because he beats them in debate. Considering that outside of the bible there is no evidence he even existed this is a pretty tall story.

Where are we told that Jesus was called a ''drunkard (KJV = winebibber) and a glutton?
Here let me help.... It is Matthew 11:19 and Luke 7:34.
Where do you think we find these?
Let me help you again..... In The Bible.
Now, who do you think I was referring to as ''they''?
There are a couple of clues above so it shouldn't be to difficult for you to work out ''who couldn't''.

Where are these debates?

IN THE BIBLE.

Or are you comparing yourself to Jesus here? Isn't that a bit blasphemous.

When you've read a post... read it again and give it some time to sink in before replying.

FoeHammer.

 

[Baggins]

So your only evidence is, once again, the bible, and round and round the circular argument goes. It's true because it's in the bible, which is true because it says it its.

Don't you ever get dizzy?

 

[Morcova]

No, the Christ-mas tree is not pagan. Show me where pagans called anything Christ-this or Christ-that.

LOL. Renaming a pagan ornament now makes it christian?

 

[Nooj]

with the Jewish significantly influenced by Persian elements during the exile.

Indeed. Weren't the Christian concepts of hell significantly influenced by Zoroastrianism and their worship of fire?

 

[rmwilliamsll]

Indeed. Weren't the Christian concepts of hell significantly influenced by Zoroastrianism and their worship of fire?

if you are interested in the topic of Zoroastrianism's effect on the Jews in Babylonian exile start with the wiki article on angels
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel
that will lead to:
http://www.bible-history.com/isbe/Z/ZOROASTRIANISM
and you're off and running. good topic for a few hours of online study.

if anyone has a particularly good essay on the topic please post link to it or PM me so i can get it into my notes on the topic.
tia.

 

[Aron-Ra]

Because they couldn't beat him in an argument they attacked his character instead.

But wait, they did beat in argument. That's how they judged him to be a blasphemer. That's why they threw stones at him. Then Jesus had to go and hide and then sneak away, remember? That's some omnipotent god you've got there. If anyone had tried that nonsense with Krishna, they'd have been roasted on the spot.

 

[FoeHammer]

But wait, they did beat in argument. That's how they judged him to be a blasphemer. That's why they threw stones at him. Then Jesus had to go and hide and then sneak away, remember? That's some omnipotent god you've got there. If anyone had tried that nonsense with Krishna, they'd have been roasted on the spot.

Our Lord jesus Christ rose from the dead, that's winning the argument in my book....and His book of course.

FoeHammer.

 

[c'mon sense]

Indeed. Weren't the Christian concepts of hell significantly influenced by Zoroastrianism and their worship of fire?

Originally, the Jews did not believe in an afterlife. They did after the exile. Christ's parable about Poor Lazarus proves that the concept of Hell and Heaven as well as of the immortal soul was becoming wide-spread.

Originally, the Jews did not know of a Devil. Satan wasn't even named: instead, God alone was responsible for hardening Pharaoh's heart in preventing the Jews from leaving Egypt. There is a signifcant change noticeable when you read an account of a census by King David. In the Book of Kings it is claimed that God inspired him to do so while the Book of Chronicles (written later, possibly after the exile) claims it was Satan who in fact inspired David.

Satan as an opponent of God is of persian origin, as well as the cosmic controversy between Good and Evil, Light and Darkness - a concept from mazdeism, adopted also by the Qumran communities. At worst, Satan used to be regarded as just another servant of God, prior to the exile.

The concept of Judgement as depicted in Catholic paintings (sinners being put on the scales and weighed) precisely mirrors scenes depicted in the Eqyptian Book of the Dead.

Mary, the Queen of Heaven - a reincarnation of the old fertility goddesses, such as the Hebrew Ashtoret or Babylonian Ishtar, Eqyptian Isis, Greek Aphrodite or Roman Venera. (as a side-note, this is where the word "to venerate", worhsip, comes from).

So yeah, quite a history!!

 

[Aron-Ra]

Our Lord jesus Christ rose from the dead, that's winning the argument in my book....and His book of course.

Same thing with Lord Krishna, and he did it first, and he came back and did it again, and again, and again. That's winning the argument in my book, and his book of course. God, it seems, has many books.

 

[AV1611VET]

Same thing with Lord Krishna, and he did it first, and he came back and did it again, and again, and again. That's winning the argument in my book, and his book of course. God, it seems, has many books.

I would say that most every passage of Scripture has been plagiarized into another religion at some time or another. This is because Satan is a cheap imitator of God.

The fact that no other single religion has all the attributes of Scripture is evidence of Satan's divide-and-conquer tactics.

 

[MrGoodBytes]

I would say that most every passage of Scripture has been plagiarized into another religion at some time or another. This is because Satan is a cheap imitator of God.

The fact that no other single religion has all the attributes of Scripture is evidence of Satan's divide-and-conquer tactics.

Unfortunately, mentions of Krishna in the Rigveda predate the Bible by centuries.

 

[AV1611VET]

Unfortunately, mentions of Krishna in the Rigveda predate the Bible by centuries.

And Satan predates the Rigveda.

 

[rmwilliamsll]

And Satan predates the Rigveda.

interesting question.
we established earlier that Satan is derived from Zoroastrianism that the Hebrews learned while in Babylonian Exile. So the earliest that the term is used as a proper name is roughly 600BCE. Before that it is a general term for accuser not H'Satan a specific entity.

Even if the term's idea derives from the Zoroastrian Avesta's then it is roughly 1500 BCE (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrianism)

the Rig-vedas are in Sanskrit and date roughly to the same time period 1500BCE (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rig-Veda)

The Rig Veda is the oldest of all known religious books, and the oldest book in Vedic Sanskrit or any Indo-European language.

see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avestas

The texts are preserved in two languages: the more ancient in the Avestan language, the oldest attested Indo-Iranian language still very closely related to Sanskrit and the younger texts in Middle Persian with Pahlavi script.

the order of historical sequence appears therefore to be:
Riga-Vedas>>Avestas>>Hebrew OT
from looking at both linguistic and historical sources.

 

[FoeHammer]

Same thing with Lord Krishna, and he did it first, and he came back and did it again, and again, and again. That's winning the argument in my book, and his book of course. God, it seems, has many books.

What AV1611VET says.

FoeHammer.