not sure if this is obvious or what?

[thatgirl]

one of my biggest questions that i cant seem to get my head around.. the way i see it, god has been around forever, god will be around forever. god is complete in himself and doesnt need anything else.

what then was his reasons for creating this world, humans etc.

 

[Adstar]

one of my biggest questions that i cant seem to get my head around.. the way i see it, god has been around forever, god will be around forever. god is complete in himself and doesnt need anything else.

what then was his reasons for creating this world, humans etc.

It might be true that God did not Need anything else but that does not say he did not Want anything else.

We do not have to get our heads around why God created the universe. All we can do is speculate.

God gives us what we Need to know,
But of cource we Want to know everything.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[thatgirl]

mmm i believe that having faith in something means weighing up the available evidence and then trusting in whatever makes sense to you based on this evidence. this is different for all people. i have so many questions, that one is the one i am struggling with today. the questions i need to have answered to put my faith in something may be different to urs but i cant get past them. i want to but i cant.

 

[Amin]

one of my biggest questions that i cant seem to get my head around.. the way i see it, god has been around forever, god will be around forever. god is complete in himself and doesnt need anything else.

what then was his reasons for creating this world, humans etc.

Hi,
I could be way off base here, if i am someone please tell me. I believe it's because God wanted some company, someone to be with.
Chuck.

 

[BuzWeaver]

God is the only being in existence, the reason for whose existence is in himself, every other creature looks for the reason of its existence outside of itself we are all contingent caused and finite. God alone is infinite uncaused and has the reason for existence in himself. We cannot pull the veil beyond that within the finitude of our own mind. How can we who are locked in time and space ever talk in terms that transcend time and space?

 

[Amin]

mmm i believe that having faith in something means weighing up the available evidence and then trusting in whatever makes sense to you based on this evidence. this is different for all people. i have so many questions, that one is the one i am struggling with today. the questions i need to have answered to put my faith in something may be different to urs but i cant get past them. i want to but i cant.

Hi,
Actually faith is believing in something you can't see. Such as God. You can't see him, but He's evident in His creation. It's like the wind. You can't see the wind, but you can see evidence of it when it blows, i.e. moving
or waving trees when it blows.
Chuck.

 

[thatgirl]

doesnt that just seem like god is a child wanting a little puppy dog or something to keep him company? it must be a bigger plan than that. i believe that there must be a god, i look at the world around me and just know that it cant have happened by random chance, but why. especially when he knew it was going to turn out bad. he knew that humans would turn from him etcetc..

 

[ERice2nd]

Hi,
I could be way off base here, if i am someone please tell me. I believe it's because God wanted some company, someone to be with.
Chuck.

This is the answer

We were created to fellowship with God, the angels couldnt fill this role because they are God's servents

 

[thatgirl]

This is the answer

We were created to fellowship with God, the angels couldnt fill this role because they are God's servents

but if gods existance is infinate and goes way back and back and back forever, what about the time we werent there for relationship with him?

 

[Amin]

doesnt that just seem like god is a child wanting a little puppy dog or something to keep him company? it must be a bigger plan than that. i believe that there must be a god, i look at the world around me and just know that it cant have happened by random chance, but why. especially when he knew it was going to turn out bad. he knew that humans would turn from him etcetc..

No,
I don't think it means that at all. One of the biggest stumbling blocks to God is to try and figure out why He does what He does or has done. That's where faith comes in. You believe even tho you can't prove it or it doesn't make sense. Some things won't make sense, because God is only going to reveal certain things when we see Him face to face. Such as; Why he would create a race knowing they we're going to need His Son to die so that we might know Him.
Chuck.

 

[Amin]

This is the answer

We were created to fellowship with God, the angels couldnt fill this role because they are God's servents

Thanks.

 

[BuzWeaver]

but if gods existance is infinate and goes way back and back and back forever, what about the time we werent there for relationship with him?

He had the Heavenly Host.

 

[thatgirl]

No,
I don't think it means that at all. One of the biggest stumbling blocks to God is to try and figure out why He does what He does or has done. That's where faith comes in. You believe even tho you can't prove it or it doesn't make sense. Some things won't make sense, because God is only going to reveal certain things when we see Him face to face. Such as; Why he would create a race knowing they we're going to need His Son to die so that we might know Him.
Chuck.

but the reality for me, is that stumbling black wont go away. i so so so so so wish it would. i grew up in a christian household, i have i guess, an understanding of the christian faith, but these questions wont go away and they stop me putting my faith in it. i dont think we should blindly follow, and i dont believe christians do that. all the christians i know have been convinced for themselves, and i hope one day i will be convinced..

 

[BuzWeaver]

but the reality for me, is that stumbling black wont go away. i so so so so so wish it would. i grew up in a christian household, i have i guess, an understanding of the christian faith, but these questions wont go away and they stop me putting my faith in it. i dont think we should blindly follow, and i dont believe christians do that. all the christians i know have been convinced for themselves, and i hope one day i will be convinced..

Perhaps what you are trying to do is rationalize or use logic to explain where God came from and what he is about?

 

[thatgirl]

Perhaps what you are trying to do is rationalize or use logic to explain where God came from and what he is about?

but what should i do instead? thats how my human brain works. im a science student. logic and evidence based thinking is my life!

 

[BuzWeaver]

but what should i do instead? thats how my human brain works. im a science student. logic and evidence based thinking is my life!

Yes, I see this a lot when debating Atheist and Scientist. Having been a science student myself I can represent something even science has trouble with and that's infinity.

We can represent infinity with a symbol however we can never demonstrate it. So science doesn't reject infinity because they can symbolize it, however they can't demonstrate it.

Another approach I use is how can we who are contingent and finite demonstrate an omnipotent and infinite being, if we could either bring God down to the finite or we were able to understand God, then we would have to posses a power that only God has, thus making us God.

So in your mind you may be saying to yourself who created God, well, there isn't a beginning to a beginning. God[FONT=&quot] is the only being in existence, the reason for whose existence is in himself.

So how can we who are locked in time and space ever talk in terms that transcend time and space?[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

 

[thatgirl]

Another approach I use is how can we who are contingent and finite demonstrate an omnipotent and infinite being, if we could either bring God down to the finite or we were able to understand God, then we would have to posses a power that only God has, thus making us God.

that makes lots of sense. thanks

am i allowed to change the direction of the discussion here?
i am consumed by thoughts and questions like this all the time, wanting to know all the answers, obviously i cant, but i keep trying anyway, and im sure one day ill sort it out.
what about people, i have a few friends for example, who just dont care. i cant even debate with them because they are atheist through and through, since there is no god, no religion, no nothing, when they die nothing happens its just black, they dont feel the need to argue at all. i feel god is working in me, helping me by making my brain question, and argue etc. but what about these people? will they ever be saved?

 

[BuzWeaver]

Then I know just the person you need to listen too, Ravi Zacharis, he's a Christian Apologist that is a brilliant lecturer who approaches Christianity from a intellectual perspective.

Look through is Radio Broadcast and you'll find a lot of great Q&A's at various Universities as well as his regular lectures:

http://www.rzim.org/radio/

 

[FallingWaters]

one of my biggest questions that i cant seem to get my head around.. the way i see it, god has been around forever, god will be around forever. god is complete in himself and doesnt need anything else.

what then was his reasons for creating this world, humans etc.

You are correct so far. I've thought about this, too. What I have come up with is this. Since God is Love, He wanted to give His love. He is a loving Father who wanted us to know the wonders of His love.

And somehow the whole "kick the devil in the teeth and win the war in the end" comes into play, too, I think.

 

[BuzWeaver]

that makes lots of sense. thanks

am i allowed to change the direction of the discussion here?
i am consumed by thoughts and questions like this all the time, wanting to know all the answers, obviously i cant, but i keep trying anyway, and im sure one day ill sort it out.
what about people, i have a few friends for example, who just dont care. i cant even debate with them because they are atheist through and through, since there is no god, no religion, no nothing, when they die nothing happens its just black, they dont feel the need to argue at all. i feel god is working in me, helping me by making my brain question, and argue etc. but what about these people? will they ever be saved?

Defining the terms, atheism comes from the Greek alpha the negative and theism (Theos) for God, in other words negative God, there is no God. That’s what the word atheism really means. It’s not saying I do not think there is a God. It’s not even saying I do not believe there is a God it is affirming the none existence of God.


It affirms a negative, it affirms the none existence of God. It’s a logical contradiction.


How can you affirm a negative in the absolute? It would be like saying there is no such thing as a white stone with black dots anywhere in all the galaxies of the universe the only way you can affirm that is if you have unlimited knowledge of the universe. So to affirm an absolute negative is self defeating because what you are saying is I have infinite knowledge to say there is nobody with infinite knowledge.



Atheism as a system is self defeating.