Why is Fundamental Christians so down on Homosexuality?

[lilymarie]

Homosexuals are people who are involved in a relationship with a WILLING partner...there is no way to compare that to pedophilia in which a child is VICTIMIZED!!! That being said, Gabby's point was simply that God hates the sin but loves the sinner and we should follow His example.

And, we don't know this? Of course we do.

My point regarding pediophilia is will the desire will always be there?

My point regarding any other sin IS will the desire always be there?

Not one can change?

Anyone with a desire will be tormented by that desire the rest of their lives?

Well, thankfully I disagree, and personally know happy, celibate non-practicing homosexuals.

Praise The Lord.

Now how about you?

What do you think?

How about this one? Everyone who is greedy will always have the desire to be greedy?

 

[lilymarie]

and you are mature? mmm...ok. unfortunately, I can't show you posts because the mods cleaned them up. HENCE why YOU can't see them. AND you and mikey are cut from the same cloth...cold and unfeeling.

Talk about calling the kettle black. I think you are quite out of line missy far beyond anything I saw Mike do in this thread.

Look in the mirror, my friend. Look in thine own mirror.

 

[HesMyAll]

And, we don't know this? Of course we do.

My point regarding pediophilia is will the desire will always be there?

My point regarding any other sin IS will the desire always be there?

Not one can change?

Anyone with a desire will be tormented by that desire the rest of their lives?

Well, thankfully I disagree, and personally know happy, celibate non-practicing homosexuals.

Praise The Lord.

Now how about you?

What do you think?

How about this one? Everyone who is greedy will always have the desire to be greedy?

There are some people who are totally delivered from their fleshly desires while others will struggle with those desires all their lives.

As for being greedy, that is more a character flaw than a desire IMHO.

 

[lilymarie]

Oh, and by the way Miss Melody, you say Mike acted badly, so that gives you an excuse to act worse I gather is your logic?

 

[lilymarie]

There are some people who are totally delivered from their fleshly desires while others will struggle with those desires all their lives.

As for being greedy, that is more a character flaw than a desire IMHO.

Greed is not necessarily a character flaw. It comes from the flesh desire, not the Spirit.

So, it's still the same.

Where do the flesh desires come from? The flesh? Or the Spirit?

And what can The Holy Spirit do?

Didn't Jesus say "flesh gives birth to flesh, and spirit gives birth to Spirit"?

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

Oh, and by the way Miss Melody, you say Mike acted badly, so that gives you an excuse to act worse I gather is your logic?

muwahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh LOL LOL LOL!! O H My goodnes you make me laugh. Sorry....just had to get that out.

I am moving on....sorry to leave ya'll..but hey, There are MORE mature threads and uplifting ones than this...

IF you read my post....I said.."that is no justification for me to of acted that way". DID You not see that??? NO???? DIDN"T think so. You read what you want and make asanine comments that have NO relevance!! God bless ya'll!! Bye.

 

[MikeMcK]

I didn't say it was different

If you're not saying that it's different, then why do you make it sound as though God will not give them the same comfort and peace as He does any other sinner who repents and puts their faith in Christ?

Either you believe He does, or you believe He doesn't. Right now, it sounds an awful lot like you believe He doesn't.

When you stopped sleeping around you found a woman to love and enjoy intimately.

That's right. That doesn't mean that my sexuality or my desires magically changed.

I still struggled with the same feelings and temptations as I did before.

((I don't normally share such personal information, but I believe it's necessary here.))

What you have to remember is that I didn't get married the day after I got saved. It was almost ten years.

That was almmost ten years that I had to put my sexual desires on hold. For nearly ten years, that was a big struggle to bring my sexuality into submission to Christ.

Now, of course I know that you're going to discount this by saying, "But that was only ten years. Gay people have to go through their whole lives this way", but my point still stands: heterosexuals are not immune from many of the same struggles as homosexuals.

All I am asking Mike is that you recognize this and have mercy and compassion

And I do.

In return, all I am asking from you is that you stop trying to paint me as an ogre, who's never lived in the real world and doesn't know the struggles that people of all walks of life face.

The truth is, my gay friends know how much I love them and they must think that I'll show them "mercy and compassion", because I'm usually the first one they come to.

I've been in ministry for roughly twelve years and was a social worker for many years before that. I've counseled hundreds, if not thousands of people, including gays.

You keep saying, "you don't know me...you don't know me...you don't know me..."

Well, Gabby, you don't know ME and, frankly, I'm really starting to resent the assumptions you're making about me.

These personal attacks and insinuations of yours are getting to be very tiresome and if you don't stop (and I don't believe that you will) I don't see any other alternative but to put you on ignore and be done with you.

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

Gabby, please learn how to use punctuation. Your posts are the grammatical equivalent of a Salvador Dali painting. Honestly, it’s like reading Chinese and I would wager that the reason you’re having so many problems in this thread is that your posts are so hard to decipher.



If you're not saying that it's different, then why do you make it sound as though God will not give them the same comfort and peace as He does any other sinner who repents and puts their faith in Christ?

Either you believe He does, or you believe He doesn't. Right now, it sounds an awful lot like you believe He doesn't.



That's right. That doesn't mean that my sexuality or my desires magically changed.

I still struggled with the same feelings and temptations as I did before.

((I don't normally share such personal information, but I believe it's necessary here.))

What you have to remember is that I didn't get married the day after I got saved. It was almost ten years.

That was almmost ten years that I had to put my sexual desires on hold. For nearly ten years, that was a big struggle to bring my sexuality into submission to Christ.

Now, of course I know that you're going to discount this by saying, "But that was only ten years. Gay people have to go through their whole lives this way", but my point still stands: heterosexuals are not immune from many of the same struggles as homosexuals.



And I do.

In return, all I am asking from you is that you stop trying to paint me as an ogre, who's never lived in the real world and doesn't know the struggles that people of all walks of life face.

The truth is, my gay friends know how much I love them and they must think that I'll show them "mercy and compassion", because I'm usually the first one they come to.

I've been in ministry for roughly twelve years and was a social worker for many years before that. I've counseled hundreds, if not thousands of people, including gays.

You keep saying, "you don't know me...you don't know me...you don't know me..."

Well, Gabby, you don't know ME and, frankly, I'm really starting to resent the assumptions you're making about me.

These personal attacks and insinuations of yours are getting to be very tiresome and if you don't stop (and I don't believe that you will) I don't see any other alternative but to put you on ignore and be done with you.

pot, kettle....all that. Can't you see how you talk to people is exactly what you are accusing Gabs and others of? Mike...take it easy.

 

[lilymarie]

muwahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh LOL LOL LOL!! O H My goodnes you make me laugh. Sorry....just had to get that out.

I am moving on....sorry to leave ya'll..but hey, There are MORE mature threads and uplifting ones than this...

IF you read my post....I said.."that is no justification for me to of acted that way". DID You not see that??? NO???? DIDN"T think so. You read what you want and make asanine comments that have NO relevance!! God bless ya'll!! Bye.

That's good you apologized.

As far as the rest of this post, again, look to thine own mirror please. And then you will see how you act.

You are still justifying your completely out of line and completely assinine immature behavior by throwing ugly words at me, simply because you most likely want me to back up your temper tantrums.

Hope you will reflect upon that some time soon.

 

[MikeMcK]

Talk about calling the kettle black. I think you are quite out of line missy far beyond anything I saw Mike do in this thread.

Look in the mirror, my friend. Look in thine own mirror.

Thank you. I don't know what to say.

She accuses me of lying but, when asked to give an example, she can't tell us what I've lied about.

She accuses me of "twisting people's words", but when asked to give an example, she can't tell us who's words I've "twisted" or what I said.

She accuses me of being "abusive", but she can't tell me who I abused or what I said that was "abusive".

She says that posts were deleted, so you can't see what I really said.

Well, for once, she's telling the truth (kind of). But what she neglects to tell you is that only two posts were deleted: one, in which she called me names, and mine, in which I told her that I would not respond in kind. It was deleted because it included a quote of her deleted post.

The funny thing is, she "apologized" for calling me names, but now, she's right back at it.

She also claims to have put me on ignore, but then she keeps on responding to my posts and commenting to others about something I've said here or there, so, obviously, she's obviously not telling the truth about that, either.

If you go back and look at the history of her posts in this thread, it's clear that she never did have anything to add to the conversation but, instead just followed me over here from another thread just for the purpose of bad mouthing me and derailing this thread.

She hasn't addressed the subject of this thread one time. All she's done here is to badmouth me (and now you).

Of course, the board has rules against such stalking but it's doubtful that the mods are going to enforce it.

 

[lilymarie]

Thank you. I don't know what to say.

She accuses me of lying but, when asked to give an example, she can't tell us what I've lied about.

She accuses me of "twisting people's words", but when asked to give an example, she can't tell us who's words I've "twisted" or what I said.

She accuses me of being "abusive", but she can't tell me who I abused or what I said that was "abusive".

She says that posts were deleted, so you can't see what I really said.

Well, for once, she's telling the truth (kind of). But what she neglects to tell you is that only two posts were deleted: one, in which she called me names, and mine, in which I told her that I would not respond in kind. It was deleted because it included a quote of her deleted post.

The funny thing is, she "apologized" for calling me names, but now, she's right back at it.

She also claims to have put me on ignore, but then she keeps on responding to my posts and commenting to others about something I've said here or there, so, obviously, she's obviously not telling the truth about that, either.

If you go back and look at the history of her posts in this thread, it's clear that she never did have anything to add to the conversation but, instead just followed me over here from another thread just for the purpose of bad mouthing me and derailing this thread.

She hasn't addressed the subject of this thread one time. All she's done here is to badmouth me (and now you).

Of course, the board has rules against such stalking but it's doubtful that the mods are going to enforce it.

You're welcome. I see a lot of the same things you see in this thread.

I didn't see you acting immaturely?

No, 'twas the other way around, and simply because I'm a women does not mean I have to side with what is clearly wrong.

I rather liked your posts and thought you acted very maturely in this thread under the circumstances.

I am glad you shared your background with us. My Dad had his Master's in Psychology and was a Social Worker. He loved his patients and was a great and caring man.

 

[Charles YTK]

Look friends. you can not say that Homosexuals are doing anything wrong, if you are also condoning eating food that God calls unclean and an abomination. The laws against sexual deviation and homosexuality are given together with Gods dietary laws. He says to eat that which is unclean is an abomiation.

My dear Christian brothers and sisters, God's law is for our good. This thread was started to illustrate the inconsistency of condemning Homosexuals and defending eating unclean food. This I did not to defend Homosexuals but to show a doctrine, a practice, that is not biblical in regards to how the word of God and his instructions are used.

If it is OK to eat Pork, then it is also OK to mary your own sister. They appear in the same laws of God in the same book. Wake up people someone has been selling you a line of bad investments from the Pulpits. We can be fooled once in a whuile, but since we own bibles and are now able to read and pray for ourselves, there really isn't any excuse to continue being fooled.

 

[Abigayle's Legacy]

Mike this is the last thing I will say in this thread.
I do not understand why you would put me on ignore,
I do not pm you, unless you are referring to not answering my posts. I have only spoken to you here and I will not come back here to post again.
I have not called you names, I have spoken my opinion as you have. I am glad you have gay friends that is a good thing and you've helped them even better.
I think in run ons Mike. Actors do that, so forgive my lack of punctuation another one of my flaws.
I'm tired....really, Lily feels you said nothing wrong, thinks I am wrong, so be it.
I am praying at this moment and making the decision not to ever come into one of these debate threads again.
I came to CF for friendship, fellowship and to share God's love.
I assume you and Lily did too, so be blessed, go in peace, and may God bless you both abundantly.
Your sister in Christ.
Gabby

 

[MikeMcK]

Look friends. you can not say that Homosexuals are doing anything wrong, if you are also condoning eating food that God calls unclean and an abomination.

And, as I've explained to you before, God has declared that there are no longer "unclean foods".

On the contrary, the NT goes on to repeat that homosexuality is a sin.

The laws against sexual deviation and homosexuality are given together with Gods dietary laws.

And the laws against sexual deviation are repeated in the NT, after the laws against unlcean foods were abolished.

My dear Christian brothers and sisters, God's law is for our good. This thread was started to illustrate the inconsistency of condemning Homosexuals and defending eating unclean food.

But it isn't inconsistent. They're two different things.

If it is OK to eat Pork, then it is also OK to mary your own sister.

Actually, 1 Cor 5 says otherwise.

We can be fooled once in a whuile, but since we own bibles and are now able to read and pray for ourselves, there really isn't any excuse to continue being fooled.

So then, should we read the NT condemnation of homosexuality?

 

[lilymarie]

Look friends. you can not say that Homosexuals are doing anything wrong, if you are also condoning eating food that God calls unclean and an abomination. The laws against sexual deviation and homosexuality are given together with Gods dietary laws. He says to eat that which is unclean is an abomiation.

My dear Christian brothers and sisters, God's law is for our good. This thread was started to illustrate the inconsistency of condemning Homosexuals and defending eating unclean food. This I did not to defend Homosexuals but to show a doctrine, a practice, that is not biblical in regards to how the word of God and his instructions are used.

If it is OK to eat Pork, then it is also OK to mary your own sister. They appear in the same laws of God in the same book. Wake up people someone has been selling you a line of bad investments from the Pulpits. We can be fooled once in a whuile, but since we own bibles and are now able to read and pray for ourselves, there really isn't any excuse to continue being fooled.

I agree with you Charles after studying nutrition. The law was set up for our own health.

Now that I know shellfish are the insects of the ocean, I would no more eat a spider than I would a crab.

God has been heading me towards learning about Judeo Christianity because God never says something IS sin for random reasons.

However, most of us are not careful with food and America is addicted to white sugar which has bleach in it.

The Levitical diet can be proven to be very wise indeed, and God's word never ceases to amaze me. However, most of us are still being led by the world, and I don't see pork coming off the menu any time soon, though for me it is because it truly makes me literally ill and sick in health. That just happened by accident one time after eating a cooked ham, though I do recall never feeling quite well in health after eating ham. However, I really got seriously ill one time, and one time is enough for me. It's the trichomonous in the pig that is dangerous.

And another thing, it cracks me up how science is still looking for a "germ theory" when God through his word The Bible taught us to wash our hands and even wash our dishes. We owe a lot of things we do to the Bible, yet people are so ungrateful and put the Bible down. The Levitical dietary laws are definately by divine inspiration, as I see so many people don't even know that shellfish are considered insects of the ocean, and now I am clearly re-thinking that. However, even breathing today's air is unhealthy.

The America diet is totally in the dumpster; it's pure junk, but each needs to change their diet as they learn about nutrition.

However, asking or expecting all Christians to change their diet now may be asking for a lot.

Though the Levitical diet in itself is definately a miraculous thing.

I really don't want to eat insects of the ocean.

Barf. Lobsters are like earthly coachroaches. I wouldn't eat coachroaches either! lol

 

[MikeMcK]

You're welcome. I see a lot of the same things you see in this thread.

I didn't see you acting immaturely?

No, 'twas the other way around, and simply because I'm a women does not mean I have to side with what is clearly wrong.

I rather liked your posts and thought you acted very maturely in this thread under the circumstances.

I am glad you shared your background with us. My Dad had his Master's in Psychology and was a Social Worker. He loved his patients and was a great and caring man.

Thanks. Your dad sounds like a good guy.

I enjoyed being a social worker, although it took me into some pretty rough places.

The good news is that I was able to put that experience into practice when I became a Christian. Some churches that we were affiliated with started a rescue mission in Camden, NJ (and then a second one in North Philly), so I was able to contribute in that way.

I'm not involved so much now, but I was the guy who did all of the intake and auditing.

 

[lilymarie]

Oh, sorry, the word that pigs carry is trichinosis.

Here's a bit I found about pigs and shellfish on a website just now. It backs up my claim that shellfish are the cockroaches of the ocean (and I spelled that word wrong, too.)

If one wants the weblink I put it in my bookmarks, but it was a website for weight lifters -- lol. So, I don't think it's really necessary unless someone on here wants to know about a weight lifters diet. This was the section on foods: Sorry the following is REALLY gross, but I'd suspect very, very true nontheless.

-------------------------------------

Unclean Food

By this I don't mean food that has dirt in it. I'm referring to food that simply wasn't designed to be processed by the human digestive system, primarily certain types of meats.
Yuk, you're thinking, a "veggie". Wrong. There are clean meats and unclean meats. Clean meats are those that come from herbivorous mammals that divide the hoof and chew a cud. In seafood, clean meats are those that have fins and scales. Clean and unclean food is a study in itself. E.g., turkey and chicken are clean, ostrich and vulture are unclean.
In mammals, unclean meats are the scavengers, or predators. I.e., you're eating second-hand garbage. Pork is perhaps the worst. In addition to what a pig will eat--in our Civil War, pigs chewing on dead and wounded soldiers was a real problem--pigs carry the trichinosis worm and its meat is extremely greasy. This grease coats your digestive organs.
The problem with grease coating your digestive organs is this: protein is a large molecule. An intestine coated with grease (fat) will allow a small molecule to pass into the bloodstream. The large molecules are kept out.
Fish that have fins and scales have a filtering mechanism to keep impurities out of the meat. Those that don't have fins and scales don't have this filtering mechanism. Going one step further, lobster and shrimp are the cockroaches of the oceans. Without them, there'd be miles of muck on the ocean floor.
Never heard any of this before? It's in one of the most published books on earth. Most people have a copy, or easy access to one. Few ever read or apply it. It's the Bible. The clean and unclean food descriptions (but not the scientific reasoning) are found in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14. Try it for 60 days and see for yourself.

 

[lilymarie]

Mike this is the last thing I will say in this thread.
I do not understand why you would put me on ignore,
I do not pm you, unless you are referring to not answering my posts. I have only spoken to you here and I will not come back here to post again.
I have not called you names, I have spoken my opinion as you have. I am glad you have gay friends that is a good thing and you've helped them even better.
I think in run ons Mike. Actors do that, so forgive my lack of punctuation another one of my flaws.
I'm tired....really, Lily feels you said nothing wrong, thinks I am wrong, so be it.
I am praying at this moment and making the decision not to ever come into one of these debate threads again.
I came to CF for friendship, fellowship and to share God's love.
I assume you and Lily did too, so be blessed, go in peace, and may God bless you both abundantly.
Your sister in Christ.
Gabby

Well, this thread was way out of control and I just spoke what I see as truth here.

And please don't try to push the blame off on me like JP did.

And God bless you as well too.

I am not taking sides, merely speaking what I see as nothing but silly temper tantrums which were totally out of line.

I felt I spoke in honesty the best I could. If you all have a personal issue with someone than take it up with the moderators, but don't derail a thread and act like children or do exactly what you are complaining against, if there was even anything to complain about in the first place? I didn't see it coming from Mike?

However, if there is a problem with someone in the future, don't act worse then them and then complain on top of it. That makes no logical sense whatsoever.

 

[MikeMcK]

In mammals, unclean meats are the scavengers, or predators. I.e., you're eating second-hand garbage. Pork is perhaps the worst. In addition to what a pig will eat--in our Civil War, pigs chewing on dead and wounded soldiers was a real problem--pigs carry the trichinosis worm and its meat is extremely greasy. This grease coats your digestive organs.
The problem with grease coating your digestive organs is this: protein is a large molecule. An intestine coated with grease (fat) will allow a small molecule to pass into the bloodstream. The large molecules are kept out.
Fish that have fins and scales have a filtering mechanism to keep impurities out of the meat. Those that don't have fins and scales don't have this filtering mechanism. Going one step further, lobster and shrimp are the cockroaches of the oceans. Without them, there'd be miles of muck on the ocean floor.
Never heard any of this before? It's in one of the most published books on earth. Most people have a copy, or easy access to one. Few ever read or apply it. It's the Bible. The clean and unclean food descriptions (but not the scientific reasoning) are found in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14. Try it for 60 days and see for yourself.

My uncle was a butcher and I apprenticed under him as a teenager. I didn't complete my apprenticeship, but I worked under him long enough to learn two things:

1. pigs are herbavores, not carnivores

2. not all cuts of pork are greasy

In addition, living on the Chesapeake, where our region is fueled by the fishing industry, particularly shellfish, has given me some insight into crabs and different mollusks, too.

Did you know that crabmeat and oysters are both very clean foods? It's true. They have a highly complex filtering system, just as God gave to all animals.

Crabs eat mostly fish. That's right, the same fish that your article assures us are clean.

Oysters eat microscopic organisms not "muck", as the article claims.

The article doesn't list a source for this information because there isn't one. It isn't true.

The truth is that assuming they're all prepared properly, you're more likely to get sick from striper or flounder than you are from pork or shellfish.

For the record, we're having a fish fry Saturday night and we're planning to have several bushels of crabs there.

I have not one problem, either morally or health-wise, in eating them.

If somebody else does, that's fine. But, for me, I'm going to have to go with Romans 14:14.

 

[icedtea]

Can you start another thread on unclean food? It sounds interesting. Pork used to be my favorite food. Now it is beans.