Does god Exist?

[SEAKOR]

Can we know?

How sure can we be?

 

[INRI2]

The argument for the existance of God starts with the major premise that where there is design, there must be a designer. The minor premise is the existence of design throughout the universe. The conclusion is that there must be a universal designer.

Why must we believe the major premise, that all design implies a designer? Because everyone admits this principle in practice. For instance, suppose you came upon a deserted island and found "S.O.S." written in the sand on the beach.

You would not think the wind or the waves had written it by mere chance but that someone had been there, someone intelligent enough to design and write the message.

If you found a stone hut on the island with windows, doors, and a fireplace, you would not think a hurricane had piled up the stones that way by chance. You immediately infer a designer when you see design.

When the first moon rocket took off from Cape Canaveral, two U.S. scientists stood watching it, side by side. One was a believer, the other an unbeliever. The believer said, "Isn't it wonderful that our rocket is going to hit the moon by chance?"

The unbeliever objected, "What do you mean, chance? We put millions of manhours of design into that rocket." "Oh," said the believer, "you don't think chance is a good explanation for the rocket?

Then why do you think it's a good explanation for the universe? There's much more design in a universe than in a rocket. We can design a rocket, but we couldn't design a whole universe. I wonder who can?"

Later that day the two were strolling down a street and passed an antique store. The atheist admired a picture in the window and asked, "I wonder who painted that picture?" "No one," joked the believer; "it just happened by chance."

Is it possible that design happens by chance without a designer? There is perhaps one chance in a trillion that "S.O.S." could be written in the sand by the wind. But who would use a one-in-a-trillion explanation?

Someone once said that if you sat a million monkeys at a million typewriters for a million years, one of them would eventually type out all of Hamlet by chance. But when we find the text of Hamlet, we don't wonder whether it came from chance and monkeys. Why then does the atheist use that incredibly improbable explanation for the universe?

Clearly, because it is his only chance of remaining an atheist. At this point we need a psychological explanation of the atheist rather than a logical explanation of the universe. We have a logical explanation of the universe, but the atheist does not like it. It's called God.

There is one especially strong version of the argument from design that hits close to home because it's about the design of the very thing we use to think about design: our brains. The human brain is the most complex piece of design in the known universe. In many ways it is like a computer.

now just suppose there were a computer that was programmed only by chance. For instance, suppose you were in a plane and the public-address system announced that there was no pilot, but the plane was being flown by a computer that had been programmed by a random fall of hailstones on its keyboard or by a baseball player in spiked shoes dancing on computer cards. How much confidence would you have in that plane?

But if our brain computer has no cosmic intelligence behind the heredity and environment that program it, why should we trust it when it tells us about anything, even about the brain?

Another specially strong aspect of the design argument is the so-called anthropic principle, according to which the universe seems to have been specially designed from the beginning for human life to evolve.

If the temperature of the primal fireball that resulted from the Big Bang some fifteen to twenty billion years ago, which was the beginning of our universe, had been a trillionth of a degree colder or hotter, the carbon molecule that is the foundation of all organic life could never have developed.

The number of possible universes is trillions of trillions; only one of them could support human life: this one. Sounds suspiciously like a plot. If the cosmic rays had bombarded the primordial slime at a slightly different angle or time or intensity, the hemoglobin molecule, necessary for all warm-blooded animals, could never have evolved.

The chance of this molecule's evolving is something like one in a trillion trillion. Add together each of the chances and you have something far more unbelievable than a million monkeys writing Hamlet.

There are relatively few atheists among neurologists and brain surgeons and among astrophysicists, but many among psychologists, sociologists, and historians. The reason seems obvious: the first study divine design, the second study human undesign.

But doesn't evolution explain everything without a divine Designer? Just the opposite; evolution is a beautiful example of design, a great clue to God. There is very good scientific evidence for the evolving, ordered appearance of species, from simple to complex.

But there is no scientific proof of natural selection as the mechanism of evolution, Natural selection "explains" the emergence of higher forms without intelligent design by the survival-of-the-fittest principle. But this is sheer theory. There is no evidence that abstract, theoretical thinking or altruistic love make it easier for man to survive. How did they evolve then?


Furthermore, could the design that obviously now exists in man and in the human brain come from something with less or no design? Such an explanation violates the principle of causality, which states that you can't get more in the effect than you had in the cause.

If there is intelligence in the effect (man), there must be intelligence in the cause. But a universe ruled by blind chance has no intelligence. Therefore there must be a cause for human intelligence that transcends the universe: a mind behind the physical universe. (Most great scientists have believed in such a mind, by the way, even those who did not accept any revealed religion.)

http://www.peterkreeft.com/topics/design.htm

 

[EmbracingHim]

INRI2,

Very well written!! Quite intelligent as well.

My thought is much simplier:

If one was to put all the molecules and substance that comprises the earth, humans, plants, animals, etc. into a giant cosmic bag...


And shake...and shake...and shake...


An earth, humans, plants and animals would probably not appear.


In a sense this is happening in the atmosphere today...but we see no new earths, intelligent life on the other planets (which serve other purposes, imo), etc.


People, ourselves, although able to duplicate some of the works of God can not create new life, earths, etc. Such a feat is far beyond our capability -- just as the stars in the heavens are too far for man to reach as of yet.

 

[ebia]

Does God Exist?

Yes

Can we know?

Many do.

How sure can we be?

By experiencing and being transformed by him.

 

[FallingWaters]

Can we know?

How sure can we be?

Once He reveals Himself to your heart, you can be very sure.

You can't prove something to someone who doesn't want to believe what you're saying. If you want to believe, there are many books that might help you in the Christian apologetics section of a bookstore. Thumb through them and pick the ones you can relate to.

 

[salida]

Can we know?

How sure can we be?

How sure? I'm sure 100%. How? Well, first I know spiritually and then second intellectually. The Bible is the most true book in the world - no kidding. If a person were to chose this faith intellectually - the whole world would be running to the Bible. A book called Examine the Evidence my Muncaster and The Case for A Creator by Lee Strobel are outstanding. They were both athiest but are now christians.

The Bible has hundreds of years of detailed prophesies that have come true and more to come. Its the only religious book that the leader literally claims to be God and has these prophesies which are just a couple things out of many. It has overwhelming history and evidence that supports it - the secular historians will support this.

Plus, one will notice the creation around you. Do you know that a tail of a bacteria - the flagella's tail - is a very detailed mechanical part. These things arn't random chance. Can a automobile be made at random? Of course not. Also, our solar system is as detailed as a watch on your wrist? Nothing at all can be out of balance - or it will be chaotic.

Next, and most importantly is that the Spirit (Holy Spirit) bears witness to my spirit (human spirit). Yes, this may sound really weird to an unbeliever - but you can't deny it. The Holy Spirit enters a person heart after they ask Christ into their life - its like a taste of heaven inside. Its a spiritual experience that can't be explained.

People chose what they are comfortable in believing no matter what the facts are - I'm glad your asking.

 

[HolyGuardianAngels]

Can we know?

How sure can we be?

YES, God exists!!

As sure as you are of your on life . . . You are assured of His!!

Do you really want to know if GOD exists?? I mean really. What changes would you have to make if you came to believe that, He is, and that He is quite real??

If you were quite sure that He lives, what would you then do?? How sure would you have to be??

I haven't found the following in Sacred Scripture yet, but personally I like the thought: God helps those who help themselves.

Yes, the Lord helps those who CAN'T help themselves; yet, you can walk a path that LEADS to Him.

 

[MidnightCandel777]

Can we know?

How sure can we be?

Good question. Why don't you ask Him?

(lol)

 

[MidnightCandel777]

Seriously, though.

Whenever I look at life, when I see the complexity of nature, when I see the "coincidences" of everyday life, I think to myself, "There is no way any of this could have happened by accident."

Isn't life (or natural life, I should say) too perfect to be just a meeting of flawlessly timed events, to be just more than coincidences?

Plus, I love the fact that God loves us so much that He decided to come down here himself and die a criminal's death so that I didn't have to.

 

[XR0391]

I'm gonna come from a purely statistical standpoint, not including correct biblical prophecies (I suggest researching the prophecy of the city of Tyre) or life expirences. www.doesgodexist.org makes the point that the universe had to have begun rather than always been (due to the spread of the universe, resources being used in solar radiation, etc...). When you take this point, that means that we have two options left: we are a product of chance, or we are created. The chance that a planet is in the right spot to support life is 1/10,000,000,000,000,000,000 (you can read this in the site listed, but I'm giving you the short version). Once in the right spot, it must then create life by chance as well. "Scientists and mathematicians like Murray Eden of MIT, Fred Hoyle of Cambridge, Francis Crick (co-discoverer of the structure of DNA) and others have shown that the odds of getting life by chance according to the models of Stanley Miller, Sidney Fox and others are in the order of 10 to the one thousandth power."

Much love.

 

[AnarKiss]

Can we know?
How sure can we be?

Reading through all the posts I read a lot of arguments for a kinda 'big fella out there creator god' - none of which would attract me to Christianity at all.

I don't thing anyone can 'prove' the existence of God - because God is not something that can be proven to exist. Some streams of mystical Christianity approach God in quite a different way. They say: God is love, but not love like humans know it => God is 'love otherwise' (for want of terminology). God exists, but not like humans exist => God is 'being otherwise'.

I don't mean that God is a supernatural entity out there that we simply cannot put in a box. That sort of power-mongering God would not attract my worship. Rather, that God is just beyond our definition, control or even proof.

So, for me God becomes associated with certain things - like life, love, real being. Where I see life lived fully - I see God. Where I see love offered extravagently - I see God. Where I see lives lived with integrity - I see God. Thus, God is not a 'being' that can be proven. But the undefinable source of life, love and meaning.

That's my thoughts anyway...

 

[BroGinder]

The argument for the existance of God starts with the major premise that where there is design, there must be a designer. The minor premise is the existence of design throughout the universe. The conclusion is that there must be a universal designer.

Why must we believe the major premise, that all design implies a designer? Because everyone admits this principle in practice. For instance, suppose you came upon a deserted island and found "S.O.S." written in the sand on the beach.

You would not think the wind or the waves had written it by mere chance but that someone had been there, someone intelligent enough to design and write the message.

If you found a stone hut on the island with windows, doors, and a fireplace, you would not think a hurricane had piled up the stones that way by chance. You immediately infer a designer when you see design.

When the first moon rocket took off from Cape Canaveral, two U.S. scientists stood watching it, side by side. One was a believer, the other an unbeliever. The believer said, "Isn't it wonderful that our rocket is going to hit the moon by chance?"

The unbeliever objected, "What do you mean, chance? We put millions of manhours of design into that rocket." "Oh," said the believer, "you don't think chance is a good explanation for the rocket?

Then why do you think it's a good explanation for the universe? There's much more design in a universe than in a rocket. We can design a rocket, but we couldn't design a whole universe. I wonder who can?"

Later that day the two were strolling down a street and passed an antique store. The atheist admired a picture in the window and asked, "I wonder who painted that picture?" "No one," joked the believer; "it just happened by chance."

Is it possible that design happens by chance without a designer? There is perhaps one chance in a trillion that "S.O.S." could be written in the sand by the wind. But who would use a one-in-a-trillion explanation?

Someone once said that if you sat a million monkeys at a million typewriters for a million years, one of them would eventually type out all of Hamlet by chance. But when we find the text of Hamlet, we don't wonder whether it came from chance and monkeys. Why then does the atheist use that incredibly improbable explanation for the universe?

Clearly, because it is his only chance of remaining an atheist. At this point we need a psychological explanation of the atheist rather than a logical explanation of the universe. We have a logical explanation of the universe, but the atheist does not like it. It's called God.

There is one especially strong version of the argument from design that hits close to home because it's about the design of the very thing we use to think about design: our brains. The human brain is the most complex piece of design in the known universe. In many ways it is like a computer.

now just suppose there were a computer that was programmed only by chance. For instance, suppose you were in a plane and the public-address system announced that there was no pilot, but the plane was being flown by a computer that had been programmed by a random fall of hailstones on its keyboard or by a baseball player in spiked shoes dancing on computer cards. How much confidence would you have in that plane?

But if our brain computer has no cosmic intelligence behind the heredity and environment that program it, why should we trust it when it tells us about anything, even about the brain?

Another specially strong aspect of the design argument is the so-called anthropic principle, according to which the universe seems to have been specially designed from the beginning for human life to evolve.

If the temperature of the primal fireball that resulted from the Big Bang some fifteen to twenty billion years ago, which was the beginning of our universe, had been a trillionth of a degree colder or hotter, the carbon molecule that is the foundation of all organic life could never have developed.

The number of possible universes is trillions of trillions; only one of them could support human life: this one. Sounds suspiciously like a plot. If the cosmic rays had bombarded the primordial slime at a slightly different angle or time or intensity, the hemoglobin molecule, necessary for all warm-blooded animals, could never have evolved.

The chance of this molecule's evolving is something like one in a trillion trillion. Add together each of the chances and you have something far more unbelievable than a million monkeys writing Hamlet.

There are relatively few atheists among neurologists and brain surgeons and among astrophysicists, but many among psychologists, sociologists, and historians. The reason seems obvious: the first study divine design, the second study human undesign.

But doesn't evolution explain everything without a divine Designer? Just the opposite; evolution is a beautiful example of design, a great clue to God. There is very good scientific evidence for the evolving, ordered appearance of species, from simple to complex.

But there is no scientific proof of natural selection as the mechanism of evolution, Natural selection "explains" the emergence of higher forms without intelligent design by the survival-of-the-fittest principle. But this is sheer theory. There is no evidence that abstract, theoretical thinking or altruistic love make it easier for man to survive. How did they evolve then?


Furthermore, could the design that obviously now exists in man and in the human brain come from something with less or no design? Such an explanation violates the principle of causality, which states that you can't get more in the effect than you had in the cause.

If there is intelligence in the effect (man), there must be intelligence in the cause. But a universe ruled by blind chance has no intelligence. Therefore there must be a cause for human intelligence that transcends the universe: a mind behind the physical universe. (Most great scientists have believed in such a mind, by the way, even those who did not accept any revealed religion.)

http://www.peterkreeft.com/topics/design.htm

Amen

 

[hlaltimus]

Can we know?

How sure can we be?

Innumerable cases of answered prayers, which prayers were many times very particular, specific petitions and yet were answered in such a way as the praying person had no forethought of the way in which it was to be answered or control either over his or her environment. Who heard and answered those prayers??? Whole books have been written exclusively over highly unusual answers to desperate prayers, which collections speak very loudly for the existence of a Divine Being. It can't possibly always be a coincidence.

 

[FallingWaters]

If there ever was a time when there was nothing,
there would still be nothing now.

The very definition of God requires that He not be a created being because if He were created, then He would not really be God, but a creature, and whoever created Him would be God.

The Lord God Almighty Creator of Heaven and Earth has made Himself known to us through the Creation, and through His Son, who said, "If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father."

 

[Robinsegg]

Okay, let me make sure I'm answering the right question, here. Are you asking "How can we know a supreme deity exists?" or "How can we know the Christian God exists?" The other question you're asking is "With how much certainty can we know this deity exists?".

Well, the classic answer here is: "Do you believe wind exists?" "How certain are you that wind exists?" You can't see wind. There's no record of anyone ever seeing wind. You can feel the effects of the wind, just as you can feel the effects of godly people in your life. You can see the effect of the wind, just as you can see the effect God has on people and events.

But, I'm assuming that won't cut it, right? So, which of the first two questions put forth above are you asking?

Rachel

 

[039]

Does God exist? Yes.
Can we know? Yes.
How sure can we be? Depends on your faith.

Completed prophecies, the world around us, and the sheer love of God can give us the foundation we need, but faith is required to make the conclusion. When we put our trust in God, we trust the word he has given us also. In God's eyes faith is what makes a person righteous. After all, if someone has faith, why would he try to go against God?

Faith, essentially, is like trusting in that which has not yet come. I could tell you that I'm going to help you with your yard work tomorrow, but it requires faith for you to conclude that I will.

 

[unpardoned1]

I'm gonna come from a purely statistical standpoint, not including correct biblical prophecies (I suggest researching the prophecy of the city of Tyre) or life expirences. www.doesgodexist.org makes the point that the universe had to have begun rather than always been (due to the spread of the universe, resources being used in solar radiation, etc...). When you take this point, that means that we have two options left: we are a product of chance, or we are created. The chance that a planet is in the right spot to support life is 1/10,000,000,000,000,000,000 (you can read this in the site listed, but I'm giving you the short version). Once in the right spot, it must then create life by chance as well. "Scientists and mathematicians like Murray Eden of MIT, Fred Hoyle of Cambridge, Francis Crick (co-discoverer of the structure of DNA) and others have shown that the odds of getting life by chance according to the models of Stanley Miller, Sidney Fox and others are in the order of 10 to the one thousandth power."

Much love.

Here's another great site. www.creationmoments.net click the radio archives option and you can listen to tons of messages that may help answer some questions.

 

[hlaltimus]

Can we know?

How sure can we be?

If you are aimlessly wandering through the Sahara Desert and see what appears to be a large pool of water, how do you know that this is a real object and not just a phantom of the mind? Well, you can't leap into a "phantom of the mind" and get wet, so try jumping in to prove the question beyond a doubt. The very best way to prove the existence of God is to jump right into seeking Him. "And you shall seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart." Jeremiah 29:13 - No mirage here.

 

[revmalone]

Can we know?

How sure can we be?

Greetings
I used to be a wild man rocker dude, I love to party, girls and loud music, my parents were Christians and that was how I heard about God and his son.

But I was playing in bands drinking like a fish, people knew me and I felt on top of the world, doing my own thing but there was a heavyness in my heart, somthing was missing but I didn't know what.

Week went by and man I felt so heavy like the world was on a chain and I was draging it behind me, my heart seemed to speed up and jump and one day I just knew it was Jesus knocking at my heart asking if he could come in.

I said yes, from that very second I stopped everything I did.This is why I know Jesus is the truth and everything in Scripture is true, he changed me and inside screams out when it hears truth. Truth is the ear by which Christians hear the instructions of God.

I can say with 1 million percent Jesus is all he said he was.

Come to him and see for you self.
Rev Malone

 

[Shubunkin]

Oh I struggled with this for years and years. Even though I was a Christian, the thought always was there, "But is He really there? And if He is, does He really care?" Until one day, I was reading in my Bible, and it said to ask Him for the faith, as we cannot do this all on our own. When I prayed for the faith, I did receive it, and ever since. We do not have to struggle with this.