Where to hunter/gatherers come from?

[USincognito]

Devil's advocate:

This is exactly what we expected! Civilizations closer to the Fertile Crescent, such as Egypt, Sodom and Gomorrah, and the Canaanites, retained more of their technology and culture since they had only a short distance to migrate. Whereas civilizations that went farther abroad to fulfill God's command to "spread out over all the Earth" lost more of their technology en route. The fact that civilizations of the Fertile Crescent are more mature makes more sense from a creationist perspective.

But what about China, which lies as far away from the Fertile Crescent as you can get on Eurasia, and the Toltecs and Classical Maya all the way over in Mesoamerica? How did they either get very far away from Mt. Ararat and retain their technology, while others nearer lost theirs or developed new technology when they were supposedly in a "depraved state?"

 

[JohnR7]

But what about China, which lies as far away from the Fertile Crescent

Did you ever hear of the silk road and the trading that went back and forth?

The Hittites were in the Fertile Crescent and they are of Mongolian descent. The Hittites were the first people to domesticate the horse and they invented the wheel and thus the war charriot. If you go down to Egypt you will find pictures of the Hittites because they were a fierce army for the Egyptians until they also learned how to train horses and use war chariots. Although horses were very, very expensive back then and a sign of wealth.

If you study the wheel up to about 100 years ago, the wheel was unchanged for 4,000 years. The big change came when they invented the tractor and Firestone though the ride was to rough and that was when he invented the rubber tire. Then his friend Ford had a contract with him to put tires on the Model-A cars.

That is why they compare the agriculture revolution with the industrical revolution. Both had a extream impact on the size of the population of people. At the beginning of the industrial revolution there were maybe 3,000 people in my family. Now there are over a million.

Actually we went from two people around 500 years ago, to over 2 million people world wide today.

So as anyone who has ever been to Hong Kong can tell you: Old and New, East and West do all come. In fact some people believe that pottery and silk clothing began in China and then found it's way into our culture.

 

[AV1611VET]

But what about China, which lies as far away from the Fertile Crescent as you can get on Eurasia, and the Toltecs and Classical Maya all the way over in Mesoamerica? How did they either get very far away from Mt. Ararat and retain their technology, while others nearer lost theirs or developed new technology when they were supposedly in a "depraved state?"

Some scholars believe that the earth consisted of one continent at the time of the Flood (Pangaea). It could be that the diameter of Pangaea wasn't long, maybe only 4 or 5 thousand miles.

Since some also think that the first Chinaman is mention in Genesis 10:17 (see also Isaiah 49:12), it could be that the Chinese were in-place and on their way to full development by the time the earth split.

[bible]Genesis 10:17[/bible][bible]Isaiah 49:12[/bible]

As I said before, it wouldn't surprise me if Noah had lived in the area we now call the United States, prior to the Flood, and may have launched his ark from here.

 

[rmwilliamsll]

The Hittites were in the Fertile Crescent and they are of Mongolian descent.

do you have a reference for the hittites being mongolian?
this is not just new to me but disturbingly out of place.
they ought to be indo-european not central asian.
but i'll certainly read your sources to see why they say this.

 

[Abongil]

If you go down to Egypt you will find pictures of the Hittites because they were a fierce army for the Egyptians until they also learned how to train horses and use war chariots.

The Hittites were mortal enemies of the Egyptians. Brush up on your history, John.

 

[AV1611VET]

The Hittites were mortal enemies of the Egyptians. Brush up on your history, John.

I know they were rival nations, but the Hittites were Egypt's "nephews".

[bible]Genesis 10:6[/bible]

Mizraim = Egyptians

[bible]Genesis 10:15[/bible]

Heth = Hittites

 

[Abongil]

Egypts nephews? The Hitties originated in the area around Turkey...

 

[USincognito]

The Hittites were an Indo-European speaking people, while the Egyptians were a Hamitic speaking people. They are not related cultures.

For the record, who are the Chinese descended from? How about the Mayans? The Inuit? Scandenavians?

 

[AV1611VET]

The Hittites were an Indo-European speaking people, while the Egyptians were a Hamitic speaking people. They are not related cultures.

I quoted Genesis 10 as my reference --- the Indo-European speaking people vs the Hamitic-speaking people didn't occur until Genesis 11 --- a full chapter later.

Imagine yourself at the Tower of Babel. Suddenly you're speaking Indo-European, and your nephew is speaking Egyptian.

For the record, who are the Chinese descended from? How about the Mayans? The Inuit? Scandenavians?

The Chinese I answered in Post 83:

• Noah > Ham > Canaan > Sinite > Chinese
• Noah > Shem > Mayans and Inuit
• Noah > Japheth > Scandinavians

 

[JohnR7]

do you have a reference for the hittites being mongolian?

I have studied it quite a bit, because the Hittites were different from all the other people at the time in that area. Also there is no indication at all in the Bible of the Hittites being semetic. Here is one referance I found on it.

The population of Turkey is roughly 70 million. The earliest known inhabitants were the Hittites, who probably came from Central Asia. Although the present-day Turks are proud of their descent from the Hittites, they are in fact a mixture of other peoples who entered the country at various times such as Persians, Celts, Romans, Arabs, and Seljuk Turks. The Seljuk Turks ... http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article-9360161

 

[AV1611VET]

Also there is no indication at all in the Bible of the Hittites being semetic.

John, that is exactly correct --- the Bible supports your claim:

Noah > Ham > Canaan > Heth > Hittites

The "Semites" come from Shem; but we call them "semitic", and not "shemitic" ---

[bible]Luke 3:36[/bible]

 

[rmwilliamsll]

The population of Turkey is roughly 70 million. The earliest known inhabitants were the Hittites, who probably came from Central Asia. Although the present-day Turks are proud of their descent from the Hittites, they are in fact a mixture of other peoples who entered the country at various times such as Persians, Celts, Romans, Arabs, and Seljuk Turks. The Seljuk Turks ... http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article-9360161

The invasion of Anatolia in stages by Turkish nomads from Central Asia is historically and culturally well recorded. These records going back almost a thousand years provide important insights as to the length of time, extent and conditions under which the individual ethno-cultural identities of invading and invaded groups are preserved. The Turkmen did not impose their way of life on the indigenous farmers of Anatolia despite the fact that their increasing political power in the Anatolian countryside brought about demographic changes.
from: http://www.tau.ac.il/humanities/archaeology/press/monograph17.html

now i think i understand.
the statement is that the Hittites came from Central Asia, therefore you say that they are Mongolian. The problem is that they came FROM Central Asia BEFORE the Mongolians got there. They are indo-european not mongolian, very different linguistics, very different ethnicity. Thanks for clarifying this.

 

[USincognito]

Noah > Ham > Canaan > Sinite > Chinese
Noah > Shem > Mayans and Inuit
Noah > Japheth > Scandinavians

Verses please... with commentary that evidences this.

 

[USincognito]

now i think i understand.
the statement is that the Hittites came from Central Asia, therefore you say that they are Mongolian. The problem is that they came FROM Central Asia BEFORE the Mongolians got there. They are indo-european not mongolian, very different linguistics, very different ethnicity. Thanks for clarifying this.

He appears to be conflating Central Asia with Mongolia.
-------------------------------
The Seljuks and later Ottomans came from what is now Kazakhstan, etc. and Russian Central Asia. That's likely the same area (or possibly the Caucuses) the Hittites originated in before moving into Anatolia.

Of course none of any of the groups mentioned in the Brittanica article, rmwilliams or my posts were hunter/gatherers and thus have nothing to do with the question I asked in the OP.

I think it's very interesting the only viable responses that have come in response to the OP have been shernren playing devils advocate, not for Creationists.

 

[AV1611VET]

Verses please... with commentary that evidences this.

Okay, let me rephrase, so as to be technically correct:

Noah > Ham > Canaan > Sinite > ... > Chinese
Noah > Shem > ... > Mayans and Inuit
Noah > Japheth > ... > Scandinavians

Better now?

 

[AV1611VET]

I think it's very interesting the only viable responses that have come in response to the OP have been shernren playing devils advocate, not for Creationists.

Of course not.

If I can't convince anyone with Wikipedia that I'm not a YEC, I guess I'm sure not going to convince anyone from the Bible.

 

[rmwilliamsll]

Originally Posted by USincognito View Post
Verses please... with commentary that evidences this.

Okay, let me rephrase, so as to be technically correct:

Noah > Ham > Canaan > Sinite > ... > Chinese
Noah > Shem > ... > Mayans and Inuit
Noah > Japheth > ... > Scandinavians

Better now?

it is like watching an American tourist in China.
evidence?
rewrite the Bible verses.
i mean evidence.
add a few dots.
what about real evidence, you know from the world
quote another verse about something else.

tourist:where is the Post Office?
chinese gentlemen:wo bu shuo ying wen.
tourist, a bit louder, and more frustrated: where is the place to mail a letter?
chinese gentlemen, trying to be nice: Wo ting bu dong.
tourist, expecting any human being to speak at least enough english to direct him to the Post office, in a most condensending tone:
where do i go mailey lettery?

quoting a Hebraic geneology is NOT evidence.
by the way, what is the "Post Office"?

 

[AV1611VET]

it is like watching an American tourist in China.
evidence?
rewrite the Bible verses.
i mean evidence.
add a few dots.
what about real evidence, you know from the world
quote another verse about something else.

Before I look all this up so as to spoon-feed you there in your intellectual high-chair and connect the dots for you (Heaven forbid YOU would do it), let me ask you this:

Is it going to matter?

If the Mayan are actually Japhetite, instead of Semite; or the Inuit, Hamite; or the Scandinavians, Semite, instead of Japhethite --- is that really going to matter to you?

The reason I'm asking this, is because I'm detecting a level of skepticism that's going to end in a brush-off.

 

[USincognito]

You don't appear to be getting your assertions from either Scripture or Anthropology so we're curious as to how you came to those conclusions and how do you support them.

Anyone can produce flatus, not everyone can provide facts.

 

[AV1611VET]

You don't appear to be getting your assertions from either Scripture or Anthropology so we're curious as to how you came to those conclusions and how do you support them.

Then as far as I'm concerned, you can stay curious.