What's wrong with evolution?

[troglodyte]

I'm curious, what about evolution is so incompatible with the Christian faith? Is it beyond comprehension that God could not act through the laws of physics? Maybe He set in motion what was to become the world as we know it WITHOUT so blatentlyviolating logic and physics as the bible has us believe.

Just a thought.

 

[DailyBlessings]

The only conflict is with a few paragraphs in Genesis, not the faith itself. I can't think of a single theological justification that has stood the test of time.

 

[yasic]

alot of what is associated with evolution is the evolution of some species over millions of years into others (Such as apes into man)

The problem lies with the fact that if you trace the genology of the bible back, you get that for the bible to be taken literally, the earth needs to only be sevral thousand years old.

 

[JohnR7]

I'm curious, what about evolution is so incompatible with the Christian faith?

The problem is that there is truth mixed in with error. For most people that is not a problem, but there are christians who want 100% purity and any error at all is not acceptable.

Titus 1:15
Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

The arguement of course is the evolutionists are intereseted in and working toward purity of truth. They claim that they are working to eliminate all error.

 

[tocis]

I'm curious, what about evolution is so incompatible with the Christian faith?

What christian faith?

There's a whopper of a difference between, for example, German Lutheran christianity and the US charismatic movement.

"Christian" != "science-denier"...

 

[DJ_Ghost]

I'm curious, what about evolution is so incompatible with the Christian.

Nothing, which is why the largest Christian sects accept evolution.

Ghost

 

[AV1611VET]

Hi, Troglodyte

Nice to meet you!

I'm curious, what about evolution is so incompatible with the Christian faith?

First of all, evolution requires lots and lots and lots of time. It needs a universe that has been around for billions of years. But, like Yasic pointed out, if you reverse-engineer the genealogies, you'll see that the universe has only been around for 6000 years --- not nearly enough time for evolution to do it's dirty work.

Second of all, evolution is dirty work. It sends out two "hit men" to do its evil:

• survival of the fittest
• natural selection

Both of these characters violate God's principles of love and harmony --- and thus cannot be of God.

Thirdly, Jesus, Himself always talked about Creation - He never once mentioned evolution - not even using "the language of the times". And as followers of Jesus Christ, I don't see how Christians should be embracing evolution, either.

Fourthly, after God created the universe in six days, He pronounced it "very good" - (perfect). And that would mean there's no room for improvement, thus evolution need not occur.

Happy Birthday!

 

[Elduran]

Still ignoring the evidence of an old earth I see AV.

I find it interesting that you can actually claim to have no problem with the earth being created 6000 years ago with "built in" age, but refuse to accept that it could have been created 6000 years ago with "built in" evolution, which would make the science entirely valid. I shouldn't be surprised at this stage, as you manage to handwave away almost every rational argument against your position...

 

[Chalnoth]

First of all, evolution requires lots and lots and lots of time. It needs a universe that has been around for billions of years. But, like Yasic pointed out, if you reverse-engineer the genealogies, you'll see that the universe has only been around for 6000 years --- not nearly enough time for evolution to do it's dirty work.

No, the Bible says that the universe is only 6,000 years old. The universe says that it is 13.7 billion years old (give or take a little bit). The Earth says that it is 4.5 billion years old. So what, do you think, would be a more accurate measure as to the age of the Earth? The Earth, or a book?

Second of all, evolution is dirty work. It sends out two "hit men" to do its evil:

• survival of the fittest
• natural selection

Both of these characters violate God's principles of love and harmony --- and thus cannot be of God.

First of all, these are two separate names for the same exact thing. Secondly, God himself does quite a lot of what you call here dirty work. I particularly like this one:

23 From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some youths came out of the town and jeered at him. "Go on up, you baldhead!" they said. "Go on up, you baldhead!" 24 He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the LORD. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths. 25 And he went on to Mount Carmel and from there returned to Samaria.

Yeah, God sounds like a really nice guy, mauling those youths because they ****ed off his prophet

Thirdly, Jesus, Himself always talked about Creation - He never once mentioned evolution - not even using "the language of the times". And as followers of Jesus Christ, I don't see how Christians should be embracing evolution, either.

So? If he lived at all, he lived 2000 years ago, about 1850 years before the theory of evolution was proposed.

 

[AV1611VET]

Still ignoring the evidence of an old earth I see AV.

No --- the age of the earth is very compatible with Creation.

I find it interesting that you can actually claim to have no problem with the earth being created 6000 years ago with "built in" age, but refuse to accept that it could have been created 6000 years ago with "built in" evolution, which would make the science entirely valid. I shouldn't be surprised at this stage, as you manage to handwave away almost every rational argument against your position...

What on earth (pardon the pun) is "built in evolution"?

Evolution, as I understand it, is still a work-in-progress, and God said He rested on the 7th day.

Also, age aside, those other points I made are enough to convince me that evolution is not of God, either.

 

[Chalnoth]

Oh, and by the way, if you don't believe in evolution because it's not in the Bible, does this mean that you also don't believe in electricity? Because that's not in the Bible.

 

[AV1611VET]

Oh, and by the way, if you don't believe in evolution because it's not in the Bible, does this mean that you also don't believe in electricity? Because that's not in the Bible.

Electricity IS in the Bible.

[bible]Job 38:25[/bible]

But that aside, saying evolution exists because it wasn't mentioned, per se, in the Bible is a poor way of justifying it.

 

[Chalnoth]

Ridiculous, but I'll bite. What about magnetism? The nuclear forces?

And I am not saying that the fact it wasn't mentioned in the Bible is evidence for evolution. I'm saying that there is no expectation for evolution to be mentioned in the Bible, given the time frame in which it was written. The Bible itself is neither evidence for or against evolution.

 

[BeamMeUpScotty]

The arguement of course is the evolutionists are intereseted in and working toward purity of truth. They claim that they are working to eliminate all error.

Sorry, wrong again. Scientists (there is no such thing as an "evolutionist") are working mainly to eliminate gaps in knowledge through observation, experimentation, testing, and doing all of it all over again and again to verify results. Yes, one of the purposes is to eliminate errors in their work, knowing they will never eliminate all errors or all gaps in knowledge. They are looking to always refine their methods and knowledge, which I should think is an admirable goal of any human being.

 

[AV1611VET]

Ridiculous, but I'll bite. What about magnetism? The nuclear forces?

Magnetism, per se, is not mentioned that I know of; electromagnetism is evidenced, though.

[bible]Genesis 1:3[/bible]

The Bible itself is neither evidence for or against evolution.

I could not disagree with you more.

 

[Elduran]

What on earth (pardon the pun) is "built in evolution"?

Well, it makes about as much sense as your built in age arguments.

Also, age aside, those other points I made are enough to convince me that evolution is not of God, either.

Well, you really must not take much convincing!

 

[Elduran]

Oh, and there was nothing in that verse about electromagnetism no matter how much you twist it.

 

[BVZ]

Hi, Troglodyte

Nice to meet you!

First of all, evolution requires lots and lots and lots of time. It needs a universe that has been around for billions of years. But, like Yasic pointed out, if you reverse-engineer the genealogies, you'll see that the universe has only been around for 6000 years --- not nearly enough time for evolution to do it's dirty work.

This is only a problem if you read the bible literally. Of course, reading the bible literally causes a mutitute of OTHER problems as well, including the one where it contradicts itself.

Second of all, evolution is dirty work. It sends out two "hit men" to do its evil:

• survival of the fittest
• natural selection

Both of these characters violate God's principles of love and harmony --- and thus cannot be of God.

Firstly, like someone already pointed out to you, these two are the same thing. The two characters are in fact the same character. The fact that you don't know this sais that you don't know much about evolution. Perhaps it MIGHT be a good idea to learn what evolution actually sais before argueing against it? In much the same way that you might think twice about arguing with Tiger Woods about golf before you actually know anything about golf?

Another thing. You claim that natural selection violates God's principles of love and harmony. Are you claiming that God created something that violates his own principles? Since natural selection happens, and since it is part of nature, and since God created nature, it follows that God created natural selection. Who are you to tell God what he may and may not create, and what his principles are?

Heres a question for you. Is this world heaven? I am pretty sure the answer you will give is 'NO', we are not currently in heaven. Now, considering the fact that this is NOT heaven, is it surprising at all that not everything is in accordance with God's principles of love?

Thirdly, Jesus, Himself always talked about Creation - He never once mentioned evolution - not even using "the language of the times". And as followers of Jesus Christ, I don't see how Christians should be embracing evolution, either.

Neither did Jesus even mention you AV. Does this mean that you do not exist?

Fourthly, after God created the universe in six days, He pronounced it "very good" - (perfect). And that would mean there's no room for improvement, thus evolution need not occur.

Are you saying that everything God created should suddenly fall apart, rot, and collapse after the sixth day? Why would this happen? I am pretty sure that God knew what he was doing, why would everything suddenly stop working after he is done creating them?

Gravity still works. Chemistry still works. All the internal machinery that keeps reality intact seems to still be working. Why would anything that emerges from these processes (like evolution for instance) stop working?

No --- the age of the earth is very compatible with Creation.

What on earth (pardon the pun) is "built in evolution"?

You have claimed before the the world was created with history 'built in'. If this is so, what prevents evolution to be built in along with all the other history?

Evolution, as I understand it, is still a work-in-progress, and God said He rested on the 7th day.

If God wanted to create a universe that is frozen in eternal crystal bullet time, he would have done so. God did not choose to do this, and I don't claim to know why. What I do know it that since God chose to make the universe dynamic and able to change, it is, in fact, a work in progress.

Also, age aside, those other points I made are enough to convince me that evolution is not of God, either.

I suggest you learn a bit about evolution. I have seen other make this suggestion too.

Here is a question which I expect you to answer: Why have you not learned anything in yout time here on this forum?

 

[Jase]

Magnetism, per se, is not mentioned that I know of; electromagnetism is evidenced, though.

What on Earth does that verse have to do with electromagnetism? Do you even know how we get our electromagnetic field?

 

[DailyBlessings]

First of all, evolution requires lots and lots and lots of time. It needs a universe that has been around for billions of years. But, like Yasic pointed out, if you reverse-engineer the genealogies, you'll see that the universe has only been around for 6000 years --- not nearly enough time for evolution to do it's dirty work.

This point is fair enough. Not that there are not other explanations for the genealogies, but I'll concede that they are probably concocted after the fact. This is the crux of the problem- how the Bible should be considered in Christian belief. However, this is tangential to the question, which asked how evolution contradicts Christian faith. Unless you believe that the fetishism of a book is more important than it's content, then the specifics of history are not wholly relevant to the theological validity of a given lifeway. We would have to establish that the Bible contradicts the theory in ways other than chronology.

Second of all, evolution is dirty work. It sends out two "hit men" to do its evil:

• survival of the fittest
• natural selection

Both of these characters violate God's principles of love and harmony --- and thus cannot be of God.

This argument does not hold water. Love: In the Bible, the love of God is rarely expressed through being "nice." The repeating pattern of the Pre-Christian faith is that of God leading his people through various trials, killing or dislocating most of them, and keeping the remnant who remain faithful to him. The same images of refining fire and a narrow road ringed by destruction echo through Christ's teachings and the rest of the New Testament. Not only are these the actions of a God who considers our lives less important than our spiritual wellbeing, they also represent a societal version of natural selection: the environment changes, and the people who were most equipped to deal with it survive and carry on the church.

As for harmony, evolution has the effect of working toward equilibrium, where each element of an ecosystem is perfectly balanced. If nothing ever died and populations just grew wildly, this would not be the case. Remove the predators from an environment, and your herbivores will strip it of vegetation in a matter of years.

Thirdly, Jesus, Himself always talked about Creation - He never once mentioned evolution - not even using "the language of the times". And as followers of Jesus Christ, I don't see how Christians should be embracing evolution, either.

Always? A few times. And since Jesus regularly spoke in parables and hyperbole, I can't see why it would be hard to believe that he would use the origin myth as it was intended to be used, for it's spiritual rather than scientific value.

Fourthly, after God created the universe in six days, He pronounced it "very good" - (perfect). And that would mean there's no room for improvement, thus evolution need not occur.

Evolution isn't improvement of the world- the same material is used, just in different forms. The only way it could be considered an improvement is in the life of a given individual. And surely you believe that an individual's life can improve? Why else would we evangelize?

Happy Birthday!

Ditto that!