really not praying to Mary???

[sent one]

Not praying to Mary?
ok I will move it back since people are responding

Hey everybody

I am not here to bash or attack. But to really ask a question. I do hear Catholics say that they do not worship or pray to Mary. And I have heard their reasoning. I understand it much better than I use to while I am still not in agreement with the practice.

But I just read this prayer by Pope John Paul back in 1999 while he was visiting Poland and I cannot see how he is not praying directly to Mary and how He is not almost worshiping her. That is at least how I see it. But again that is why I am writing to find out How would a Catholic see this? Quote from prayer below...

"Mother of the Divine Son, watch over us, watch over our unshakable fidelity to God, to the Cross, to the Gospel and to the holy Church, as you have done since the first moments of our Christian history. Defend this nation which for a thousand years has walked the path of the Gospel. Grant that we live, grow and persevere in faith until the end.
"Hail, O Daughter of God the Father, Hail, O Mother of the Son of God, Hail, O Bride of the Holy Spirit, Temple of the Most Holy Trinity. Amen." - POPE JOHN PAUL II's
Address at Blessing of Marian Shrine
Poland, 1999 Monday, 7 June 1999
Notice the Mary "defend this nation" Mary defend the nation?

FULL TEXT AT THIS LINK>>
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/jo...lichen_en.html


Again, I am not wanting to bash. There is much about the Catholic faith that I really admire but I do not understand prayers like the one above. I could find more examples but I think the above will do.

Thanks for helping

 

[eoe]

Υπεραγια Φεοτοκε σωσον ιμας

 

[ROGER459]

(1Timothy 2:4-5-6) Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
(1Ti 2:5) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
(1Ti 2:6) Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Who else can go to God for us? No one BUT CHRIST JESUS!

Thanks, Roger459

 

[Veritas]

(1Timothy 2:4-5-6) Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
(1Ti 2:5) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
(1Ti 2:6) Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Who else can go to God for us? No one BUT CHRIST JESUS!

Thanks, Roger459

It's a good thing Catholics don't believe Mary to be a Mediator or Saviour, isn't it?

 

[Peter]

(1Timothy 2:4-5-6) Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
(1Ti 2:5) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
(1Ti 2:6) Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Who else can go to God for us? No one BUT CHRIST JESUS!

Thanks, Roger459

Agreed. We have one mediator. No argument here. Now, let's talk intercessors....

A mediator is a judge, has final say. An intercessor is a witness and bears testimony. Huge difference. Jesus is the mediator, we are intercessors before Him. (Unless you don't believe in intercessory prayer. Man, that was a huge part of my Protestant upbringing. "We need to be intercessors!")


1. I was raised a Protestant Christian. I was taught to believe in instant life after death. I still believe it, so let's not go with the "Mary is dead" thing.

2. The Apostles Creed says "I believe in the communion of the saints." Yup, I do. That's why I ask Mary to pray for me.

3. I believe that the fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. Funny, it says nothing about living faithful men.

4. Jesus said the dead intercede for the living. Read His little ditty on Lazarus and the rich man.


The Reader Peter

 

[The Prokeimenon!]

Υπεραγια Θεοτοκε σωσον ημάς

Αμήν!


Rdr Moses

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

2. The Apostles Creed says "I believe in the communion of the saints." Yup, I do. That's why I ask Mary to pray for me.

How do you know that doesn't mean just the living Saints here on earth?

 

[The Prokeimenon!]

O spotless one, who inexpressably in the last days by a word brought forth The Word, do thou make request of Him, as one who hath motherly boldness!

I pray to Mary.

Rdr Moses

 

[eoe]

How do you know that doesn't mean just the living Saints here on earth?

Easy. Study it for yourself. Read what the councils say for yourself and don't trust some 20th century person to tell you what it "really" meant.

 

[HisKid1973]

For me I don't have a need to pray to anyone but God/Jesus..It's been working for the last 30+ years since that original prayer to Jesus"Here I am a sinner, save me Lord....I do have neighbors that prayed/ praying to Joseph to help them sell their house for them..pax..Kim

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Easy. Study it for yourself. Read what the councils say for yourself and don't trust some 20th century person to tell you what it "really" meant.

What the councils say? Which one?

What council do you recommend me asking and by the time I read all of what they presented I could have read the Bible through in that time?

http://www.creeds.net/

http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/NPNF2-14/TOC.htm#TopOfPage

• [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]The First Ecumenical council of Nicaea was called by emperor Constantine. The council met to deal with the schism created by Arianism. The Arians wished to avoid the heresy of Sabellius who believed in a divine monad which, by expansion, projected itself as Father, Son and Holy Spirit--a form of Modalism. The Arians separated the Son from God entirely so that they believed he was a creature having a beginning. "There was when he was not." The Son was but God's first creation, yet out of nothing and hence has preeminence over the rest of creation.[/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]The symbol answers the question, "Who is Jesus Christ."[/FONT]
  [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Its answer: God[/FONT]

 

[spopey]

I like to follow what Jesus says. Jesus teaches us how to pray in Mat. 6:5-15. I take my prayers straight to the boss.

 

[ROGER459]

BELIEVE GOD - or - believe what some Church SAYS?

(Matthew 12:46) While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
(Mat 12:47) Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
(Mat 12:48) But he [JESUS] answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
(Mat 12:49) And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
(Mat 12:50) For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

- - AND - - ​

(Mark 3:31-to-35) There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him.
(Mar 3:32) And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee.
(Mar 3:33) And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren?
(Mar 3:34) And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
(Mar 3:35) For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

JESUS, gave No Creedance to any of His brothers or EVEN HIS MOTHER! As demonstrated in the Bible Verses Above!

PERHAPS, I am mistaken or missed a verse in the Bible that speaks about mary praying for us. IF you have one, will you share it with me?

Thanks, Roger459

 

[Veritas]

BELIEVE GOD - or - believe what some Church SAYS?

(Matthew 12:46) While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
(Mat 12:47) Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
(Mat 12:48) But he [JESUS] answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
(Mat 12:49) And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
(Mat 12:50) For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

- - AND - - ​

(Mark 3:31-to-35) There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him.
(Mar 3:32) And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee.
(Mar 3:33) And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren?
(Mar 3:34) And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
(Mar 3:35) For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

JESUS, gave No Creedance to any of His brothers or EVEN HIS MOTHER! As demonstrated in the Bible Verses Above!

PERHAPS, I am mistaken or missed a verse in the Bible that speaks about mary praying for us. IF you have one, will you share it with me?

Thanks, Roger459

Believing God means believing the Church He established on the Rock of Peter by His Son. For nearly 400 years after Christ, there was no formal NT. There was only the Church [which is "the pillar and foundation of the Truth"]

 

[sent one]

[Ok guys.. I am the OP and I reposted my original question above. Take a look and talk to me!

 

[ROGER459]

You said CHURCH, and you must mean Catholic?

IF you mean Catholic, why didn't you say SO?

PETER WAS MARRIED!

(Luke 4:38-39) And he arose out of the synagogue, and entered into Simon's house. And Simon's wife's mother was taken with a great fever; and they besought him for her.
(Luk 4:39) And he stood over her, and rebuked the fever; and it left her: and immediately she arose and ministered unto them.

Thanks, Roger459

 

[sent one]

You said CHURCH, and you must mean Catholic?

IF you mean Catholic, why didn't you say SO?

PETER WAS MARRIED!

(Luke 4:38-39) And he arose out of the synagogue, and entered into Simon's house. And Simon's wife's mother was taken with a great fever; and they besought him for her.
(Luk 4:39) And he stood over her, and rebuked the fever; and it left her: and immediately she arose and ministered unto them.

Thanks, Roger459

Once again I say that I am the OP of this tread and I would like it to return to the topic I am asking about above. Thank you.

 

[eoe]

[Ok guys.. I am the OP and I reposted my original question above. Take a look and talk to me!

I will respond.

If you honestly think that what is said is worship then your idea of worship is very, very weak or very, very broad.

 

[Metanoia02]

sent one.

When understanding ther private prayers of the Pope (or popes) you must start from a basis of understanding to put thier words in context. They do not believe Mary is equal to God nor does she have the superrnatural power to act on her own on our bahalf. She is in Heaven and does indeed watch over us and prays for us. She act defender when she prsys to her son for us. She is a prayer warrior of the first order.

Also understand that many Catholic construct prayer almost as one would write poetry. They can seem at times to be overly sentimental or even Romantic. But that is the cultural difference between a Church that has been doing this for two millenia and a modern American viewpoint of proper prayer. Vastly different cultures.

But we can not interpolate what these pryaer mena without first understanding what they believe in the first place. That would not be fair.

 

[sent one]

I will respond.

If you honestly think that what is said is worship then your idea of worship is very, very weak or very, very broad.

Hey eoe

Thanks for responding but my question was about prayer. Thanks anyway.