Are these icons Orthodox?

[Greg the byzantine]

Besides that I think their faces just look plain wierd almost disfigured, and not in the usual iconographic ways.

 

[Michael G]

Yes, Michael, I can certainly see your defense of iconography... too much artistic license going on, and that's being nice about it.

I have nothing polite to say about the work depicted here. I could totally dissect it artistically, but again it would not be prudent of me to do so.

If you are not offended enough by this site, I can show you many other sites of similar "iconographers" who do just the same thing.

To quote Fr. Vasily: "IS OUTRAGE!"

 

[Michael G]

The main problem with this iconographer is his switching from Roman Catholicism to Orthodoxy to Byzantine Catholic.

And that is reflected in his iconography.

Orthodoxy begets orthopraxis and orthopraxis begets Orthodoxy. The same is true for heteropraxis and heterodoxy. Heteropraxis begets heterodoxy and heterodoxy begets heteropraxis.

Someone who has drifted between churches that much really needs to figure out what they believe.

 

[ElenaS]

*This is a genuine question, don't take it as me trying to force an opinion. I just want to know the reasons behind others' opinions*

Maybe I'll get flamed a bit for this by the iconographers and others, but why can't he write icons of the saints of his church? I could see a problem if he spiritually drifts between Orthodoxy and Catholicism without figuring out what he believes, but there are icons in Byzantine Catholic churches. Why can't they write them? If some one were born into the Ukrainian Catholic Church and wanted to learn iconography to write icons for his/her parish, why would it be wrong? The Ukrainian Catholics have had icons in their churches since they split from Orthodoxy (and I realise that this will probably be given as a reason why they can't do it) and they are part of their tradition.
Are Coptics allowed to do iconography in your opinion? Because they are not in communion with the Eastern Orthodox Church, but I never read any complaints about the fact that they write icons. I guess I just don't see the difference between them (Oriental Orthodox) writing icons while being separated from the Church and it being ok, while its not ok for Eastern Catholics.

 

[MariaRegina]

Dear Elena:

His style is shifting and the iconography isn't done in the typical Orthodox style.

The faces should radiate the Heavenly Light and the halos should be radiant, but are not.

 

[nutroll]

Maybe I'll get flamed a bit for this by the iconographers and others, but why can't he write icons of the saints of his church? I could see a problem if he spiritually drifts between Orthodoxy and Catholicism without figuring out what he believes, but there are icons in Byzantine Catholic churches. Why can't they write them? If some one were born into the Ukrainian Catholic Church and wanted to learn iconography to write icons for his/her parish, why would it be wrong? The Ukrainian Catholics have had icons in their churches since they split from Orthodoxy (and I realise that this will probably be given as a reason why they can't do it) and they are part of their tradition.
Are Coptics allowed to do iconography in your opinion? Because they are not in communion with the Eastern Orthodox Church, but I never read any complaints about the fact that they write icons. I guess I just don't see the difference between them (Oriental Orthodox) writing icons while being separated from the Church and it being ok, while its not ok for Eastern Catholics.

I have no problem with him painting the saints of his church. I don't see how we can judge who is a saint and who is not. I understand that we are told by our church which people are saints, but so is he. I think there are much bigger issues to address when there are people that are painting icons of Elvis Presley and Jimi Hendrix. The only thing I have seen that would be inappropriate (for him) is that he has put halos on some people that are not yet canonized in his church.

Dear Elena:

His style is shifting and the iconography isn't done in the typical Orthodox style.

The faces should radiate the Heavenly Light and the halos should be radiant, but are not.

I don't think his style is shifting. His son (I think the second link is his son) has some style changes that may have to do more with inexperience than anything else. And there is nothing that requires that one's style be consistent, just that it be consistent with the canons. As for the faces radiating with Heavenly light and the halos being radiant, I think that some of that might have to do with the way in which they were photographed. He obviously used gold, although it may not have been burnished really well. And to others the faces may appear radiant. I have never really appreciated his icons in an artistic sense, but I also don't really appreciate early icons from Pskov for instance as I find many of them to be crudely painted. That, in and of itself, does not mean that they are not real icons, nor that they are not worthy of veneration. It is important to distinguish between what the iconographer brings to the equation, and what the Holy Spirit brings.

 

[Oblio]

The faces should radiate the Heavenly Light and the halos should be radiant, but are not.

Perhaps he is just not a skilled iconographer

 

[MariaRegina]

oops

 

[nutroll]

Both links are his.

The one you posted was Ray Mastroberte, the one that repentant posted was David Mastroberte who I believe is Ray's son.

 

[MariaRegina]

Since 1986, Ray, his wife, Gail, and their two children, David and Lisa,

 

[MariaRegina]

Repentant muddied the waters. LOL

Now where did he get that site.

David appears to be an Orthodox Iconographer and his icons are lovely.

Okay, here is another link that shows both together.

http://www.theologyincolor.com/

 

[MariaRegina]

Yes, David outshines his dad.

Look at this site:

http://www.theologyincolor.com/david/philadelphia.html

 

[Michael G]

Perhaps he is just not a skilled iconographer

That he clearly is not.

 

[Michael G]

Yes, David outshines his dad.

Look at this site:

http://www.theologyincolor.com/david/philadelphia.html

Yes, he does. There is a distinct difference between David's skin tones and his fathers.

 

[Michael G]

I have never really appreciated his icons in an artistic sense, but I also don't really appreciate early icons from Pskov for instance as I find many of them to be crudely painted.

When I first began to study iconography I could not see why my teacher and others were so into Russian Icons from Moscow and Novgorod. They looked quite crude to me. However, over the past decade I have come to have a very deep appreciation for the way these iconographers painted and the simplistic beauty of their work.

 

[nutroll]

I actually meant to say Tver, I guess I had a bit too much beer... I actually really like simple icons, but there are icons which I think go past simple to simplistic. This icon is an example of an icon (from Tver) which I think shows a lack of refinement in skill. That being said, I am sure that some people think that it is a beautiful icon. I think some of it is very much like preferring Byzantine chant over Russian chant.

 

[Michael G]

I actually meant to say Tver, I guess I had a bit too much beer... I actually really like simple icons, but there are icons which I think go past simple to simplistic. This icon is an example of an icon (from Tver) which I think shows a lack of refinement in skill. That being said, I am sure that some people think that it is a beautiful icon. I think some of it is very much like preferring Byzantine chant over Russian chant.

The skin tones are a little bit rough, but the rest of the icon is quite beautiful.

 

[MariaRegina]

I would prefer that the eyes look at us and that the skin have a glowing texture to it because saints do have glorified bodies.

 

[Greg the byzantine]

I would prefer that the eyes look at us

Speaking of eyes. I recently got a silver gilded icon of the theotokos as a gift. Her eyes always appear to be staring straight at me no matter where I am in the room. IIRC it has something to do with placing the eyes at the vanishing point, I was never very good at art so I couldn't tell you, but it is the perfect effect for an icon.

 

[MariaRegina]

Speaking of eyes. I recently got a silver gilded icon of the theotokos as a gift. Her eyes always appear to be staring straight at me no matter where I am in the room. IIRC it has something to do with placing the eyes at the vanishing point, I was never very good at art so I couldn't tell you, but it is the perfect effect for an icon.

Amen.