Eternal Hell and Torment is a big fat Lie.

[EchoPneuma]

Option #1 is where it starts
what about option #4? PEOPLE REBEL AGAINST GOD?
option #5 people make themselves there money and TV's God.
Ok now that we have a MORE complete list of options (not anywhere close to complete but closer) Lets look at Gods options...
God is Holy and Just and cannot stand sin!
so in the OT God & pple didnt work
God sends Jesus to take our sins if we would Admit we are sinners Believe in him and Change our ways (or follow him) so he did prove he wants us all to be saved. However if God would just let people in heaven why did Jesus Die?

God will not hand out get-out-of-hell free tickets he is JUST. And in the name of justice those who do not except his gift that cost his son Jesus his life (raised 3 days later) He will be seperrated from God and eventually be caste into the lake of fire

You wanna provide some scriptures to back up that doctrine of yours?? Much of it isn't biblical.

 

[KCDAD]

God will not hand out get-out-of-hell free tickets he is JUST. And in the name of justice those who do not except his gift that cost his son Jesus his life (raised 3 days later) He will be seperrated from God and eventually be caste into the lake of fire

Get out of where cards? Hell or the lake of fire... which is it?

I understnad that you believe that Jesus died for our sins, his blood was the atonment, and we have to believe, accept and repent. Cool.

How did Jesus forgive people of their sins before he died?
He clearly told many that their sins were forgiven. Did he only have a certain number of "get of where free" cards and only so much mercy and grace to hand out before he died?

 

[StudentoftheWord]

Get out of where cards? Hell or the lake of fire... which is it?

I understnad that you believe that Jesus died for our sins, his blood was the atonment, and we have to believe, accept and repent. Cool.

How did Jesus forgive people of their sins before he died?
He clearly told many that their sins were forgiven. Did he only have a certain number of "get of where free" cards and only so much mercy and grace to hand out before he died?

Amazing.

 

[Carey]

What do you believe hell to be? It also states in revelation that hell is cast into the lake of fire so do you believe in a literal lake of fire? Also it says that death is cast into the lake of fire along with hell so isnt this a big indication of symbolism being used? How would you explain this?

It means when hadeas or death or the grave wich is what hadeas means is tossed into the Divine Heat of the lake of fire death will cease to exist forever after that second resurrection and Judgement.
That divine heat will chnge the form of the souls tossed in. Their composition will be changed in my opinion dispersed back into pure energy or mass and they will no longer have consciousness of any kind. Ecclesiastes9:4,5,6

 

[elman]

It means when hadeas or death or the grave wich is what hadeas means is tossed into the Divine Heat of the lake of fire death will cease to exist forever after that second resurrection and Judgement.
That divine heat will chnge the form of the souls tossed in. Their composition will be changed in my opinion dispersed back into pure energy or mass and they will no longer have consciousness of any kind. Ecclesiastes9:4,5,6

I don't know about the details but I think you are on the right tract. The lake of fire is the second death. death is not life in pain but non existence. The unloving do not have hope of eternal life. This life will be their only gift from God. The loving do have hope and God may gift them with eternal life.

 

[Carey]

What do you believe hell to be? It also states in revelation that hell is cast into the lake of fire so do you believe in a literal lake of fire? Also it says that death is cast into the lake of fire along with hell so isnt this a big indication of symbolism being used? How would you explain this?

The hell that is going into the the fire is death or the grave. Meaning after the second resurrection for those who will experience the forever death the eternal death.
All death will cease to exist. Read ALL of Revelations Chapter 20 and it will be clear to you.

 

[Charlie V]

God will not hand out get-out-of-hell free tickets he is JUST

Get out of where cards?

Fortunately, there's nothing in the game of Monopoly, nor in God's glorious game that is our existance, that sends you to suffer forever.

God is just, far more just than the game of Monopoly, where drawing the wrong card can send you right to jail, or cause you to land on somebody else's motel on Boardwalk or Park Place.

And, yes, sometimes, we go directly to jail. We do not pass GO. We do not collect $200.

But that only lasts a few turns. God loves us enough that He takes care of us, no matter what the dice happens to roll. And, since to everything there is a season, we all experience the jail. But eventually, we will all land on the Electric Company, and see the light, and then we will travel with God, along all four of the railroads, and we will all draw that Chance card that puts us in the "just visiting" section so we can collect the reward that lies under neath.

Okay, I've had enough of the Monopoly analogy. Anybody up for a game of Scrabble?

Charlie

 

[freemansw]

Is there a hell where people are being tormented with fire?

Well….I kind of take Jesus at his word….

Mark 9:43-48

And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

 

[EchoPneuma]

Is there a hell where people are being tormented with fire?

Well….I kind of take Jesus at his word….

Mark 9:43-48

And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

First of all every single statement Jesus says here has an "if" in front of it....meaning it COULD happen but won't necessarily will. So it does NOT prove that there are people burning right now.

Secondly Jesus NEVER used the Old English word "hell". He spoke Aramaic, Hebrew and Greek. "Hell" is an English word that the Catholic Church put in the mouth of Jesus. The word He used was "Gehenna".....and it's PROPER translation is "Valley of Hinnom".....which was a burning garbage dump outside the city of Jerusalem. The legend about it was that the fires would never go out because it was where the dead bodies and garbage was burned and there was a neverending supply of it....and the worms never died because there were always dead bodies decomposing there. All Jews knew what "Gehenna" was....and they knew it wasn't some spiritual place of fiery torment that you go for eternity when you die. Jesus used it as an illustration of what would happen to a person spiritually if they didn't live a holy life. They would be thrown on the garbage dump of humanity and have to face the fiery chastisement of God.

I ALSO believe what Jesus says as properly understood....but not what the modern day churches teach which came from the Catholic Church.

 

[Mikecpking]

God created us in His image. He gave us an imortal soul. We will live forever one way or another. Hell was not designed for man:

Where in the bible did you get the notion we have an immortal soul?

Mat 25:41
(41) Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:


But God gave each man the right to choose whether or not he will spend his eternity with God. No one has to be punished, anyone can be forgiven.

That bit you are right, but we will recieve resurrection bodies, not disembodied souls after judgement. the "immortal soul" idea has its roots in pagan Greek mythology, not Hebrew thought.

 

[2ducklow]

[/b]

Where in the bible did you get the notion we have an immortal soul?



That bit you are right, but we will recieve resurrection bodies, not disembodied souls after judgement. the "immortal soul" idea has its roots in pagan Greek mythology, not Hebrew thought.

Jesus said to fear him who has power to destroy both body and soul in hell or hades. since hades represents the lake of fire in which those not in the book of life are cast to be tormented for evr and ever, it would be logical to assume that the soul and body are tromented for all eternity. If only the body is tormented for all eternity and not the soul then no big deal cause oncewe are dead our bodies know nothing. so the soul has to burn for all eternity. but the soul is not immortal because we who believe in christ will put on immortality whereas unbelievers will never put on immortality. I guess the idea is this burning in hell for all etenrity is not living and not being immortal. life in hell is no life.

 

[Charlie V]

Jesus said to fear him who has power to destroy both body and soul in hell or hades.

2ducklow,

He didn't say anything about hades in that verse. He said gehenna. Gehenna is a completely different Greek word.

The word translated "soul," psuche, literally means "the breath of life," and is also translated variously as mind, life, and heart.

Charlie

 

[elman]

Jesus said to fear him who has power to destroy both body and soul in hell or hades. since hades represents the lake of fire in which those not in the book of life are cast to be tormented for evr and ever, it would be logical to assume that the soul and body are tromented for all eternity. If only the body is tormented for all eternity and not the soul then no big deal cause oncewe are dead our bodies know nothing. so the soul has to burn for all eternity. but the soul is not immortal because we who believe in christ will put on immortality whereas unbelievers will never put on immortality. I guess the idea is this burning in hell for all etenrity is not living and not being immortal. life in hell is no life.

Right and no lilfe equals death or non existence or oblivin.

 

[2ducklow]

Right and no lilfe equals death or non existence or oblivin.

Not sure about that. i figure the soul must go on being tormented day and night forever and ever but I also believe God does not call this immortal life. we probably would but in god
s eyes he sees it differently.

 

[elman]

Not sure about that. i figure the soul must go on being tormented day and night forever and ever but I also believe God does not call this immortal life. we probably would but in god
s eyes he sees it differently.

When the Bible says death I don't think it means life in pain. When the Bible says we can kill our own soul (EZ 18) I think that indicates the soul is not immortal no matter what we do.

 

[2ducklow]

When the Bible says death I don't think it means life in pain. When the Bible says we can kill our own soul (EZ 18) I think that indicates the soul is not immortal no matter what we do.

. the second death is afterwards when the body and soul is cast into the lake of fire alive.
Jesus said no man can kill the soul

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

 

[Mikecpking]

. the second death is afterwards when the body and soul is cast into the lake of fire alive.
Jesus said no man can kill the soul

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Hi 2Ducklow,
Jesus was speaking figuratively. This is the same like Lazarus and the richman in Luke 16. Jesus was stating that people can be anihilated in Matt 10:28.
The soul in the bible is the 'vital life' bound up in the body and can also mean the whole person. At death, the 'nephesh' dies (numbers 23:10). The 'nephesh' is the Hebrew word for soul and the 'heart' (Hebrew = Leb) is the centre of consciousness (mind).

 

[drmmjr]

Basically, the soul is the person. When Jesus spoke of not fearing those who could not kill the soul, he is speaking of not fearing other men. A man can kill another person, and the death would be a physical death, but that death would not be permanent since all will be resurrected to judgement. God remembers who we are after we die, and is quite capable of bringing us back as we were. So in essence that death is not a permanet death.

So when Jesus is speaking about fearing him who can destroy both body and soul, he is speaking of God. When God destroys both body (physical) and soul (who we are), we are no longer in His thoughts, and are thus truely dead, or destroyed.

 

[FineLinen]

When God destroys both body (physical) and soul (who we are), we are no longer in His thoughts, and are thus truely dead, or destroyed.

Drum: Do you know that there are over 20 distinct Hebrew words for destruction in the Old Covenant, a number linking destruction with being brought to perfection and new life?

And the New? One of the most powerful words for destruction is apollumi, and Jesus Christ guarantees that "if you save your life, you will apollumi/destroy it, but if you will destroy/apollumi your life for Me, you will save it."

[move]We must all die, and are like water spilled on the ground that cannot be gathered up again. But the Lord does not take away life, instead He deviseth ways for the banished to be restored.[/move]

Literally: For the banished to not be banished

 

[MattyJames]

Ok...I admit, I havent read the whole thread...so I'll ask if someone can point me rightly.

Q: How do you explain Lazarus and the Rich man? It seems to me that the Rich man is in torment, not consumed, not burnt up.

Questioning,

Matt James