Creationist Club

[Biliskner]

Sounds awesome.

Here is an indepth Bible study for those who wonder why I take Genesis Chapter One as Literal History: of a 6 Day Creation Week, 24 Hours per Day with a 1 Day Rest.

http://www.grisda.org/origins/21005.htm

 

[_Paladin_]

I recently made a forum of my own for Creationist, and ID discussion only, because I have been noticing the same thing just about anti-evolutionists in general.

Its open for anyone to use, because right now I don't have any traffic at all, and I was thinking maybe we could use it as a sort of sub forum for discussing things, and maybe plan debates, or strategic attacks on the Creation/Evolution forum.
www.rebelbiology.forumup.com/

 

[mark kennedy]

Hi!
I haven't known any of the resident Creationists very well, and I see I have missed out. I post on the Creation/Evolution thread in the Non-Christians section.

That is wonderfull, I have seen your posts on there and enjoyed them very much. Creationists on there tend to get caught in the crossfire and start to shy away from these debates, or worse, start flaming the evolutionists. What I am hoping for is a sticky that can be revised that has discussions on the theology and science involved in creationism.

I am very interested in Mark's idea--Count me in!

What I have in mind is a process by which Creationists can state their views and share what they have learned. There would not a complicated peer review process. It would just have to be 500 to 2500 words, reasonably well researched, theologically or scientifically focused, civil, comprehensive and build creationists up in the faith.

Here are a few debateing rules I learned from my father, who is exellent at this...

1. He who loses his temper first loses.

That's my experience and I have seen that from the winning and losing side. When your temper flares it distorts your focus.

2. Make sure that your opponent has no cause to be angry at you personally, only your message. ie. As fun as it is to be sarcastic, it does not help the debate atmosphere, or your witness.

Composure can be strongly reinforced with confidence. What spoils these debates is that they get into digs, flames and personal remarks. I must confess, I'm as bad as anyone about this. I have noticed though that if you are supporting your view with substantive reasons people will at least consider what you are saying. These debates should be fun and informative and it should be remembered, you can learn from people who you deeply disagree with. What is even more imporatant, they can learn more about the gospel from you conduct then the content of you arguments.

3. Keep your arguments short, and to the point.

Be concise, I really like that one. That may well be the hardest part. I imagine the extremes would be being pedantic (simplistic, redundant) and being too esoteric (talking over someones head and out of their depth).

4. Always bring your opponents argument to the last point in logic. (“My theory is correct—see, it fits all of the laws of physics.” “Then are all theories that fir the laws of physics correct?

Physics are important in radiometric dating but not a big issue in biology. The laws of science I try to emphasis is the Mendelian Laws of Inheritance. For me either the Laws of Science (or genetics) are wrong or Dawinism is wrong, they can't both be right. The issue is not between evolution and religion but between Dawinism and Medelian genetics. I have allways believed that.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[Pats]

I've read through this thread with much interest. I am desperate for more quality, scientific information that supports the YEC's view.

I know I do not come around here much, but I didn't find it to be much of a home my first try. I am always looking for scientific information on this subject. I have private debates with a pagan friend who is absolutely convinced that science only supports evolution, and proves it 90% of the way to be true. He is also of the opinion that the Bible is the only source of evidence for creation.

I have made some headway with him, but not much. A place such as this to come and share ideas would be most valuable to me. I know very little myself when it comes to science, but I am a good writer and proof reader. If you needed help with editing, please do not hesitate to ask.

Pats

 

[mark kennedy]

I've read through this thread with much interest. I am desperate for more quality, scientific information that supports the YEC's view.

I know I do not come around here much, but I didn't find it to be much of a home my first try. I am always looking for scientific information on this subject. I have private debates with a pagan friend who is absolutely convinced that science only supports evolution, and proves it 90% of the way to be true. He is also of the opinion that the Bible is the only source of evidence for creation.

I have made some headway with him, but not much. A place such as this to come and share ideas would be most valuable to me. I know very little myself when it comes to science, but I am a good writer and proof reader. If you needed help with editing, please do not hesitate to ask.

Pats

Great! I am going to open a new thread in the hopes of recieving essays on Creationism. I would be interested in anything you would like to contribute. If there is anything you have questions about with regards to the conversation you are having with your friend then by all means, feel free to ask.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[Pats]

Creation Science Resources

Creation Science is based on the belief that the Bible is a history book. It is the written record of God's works from the creation of the world and all that is in it, to the creation of the new heavens and new earth in the final pages of the Revelation. Declaring the wonderfull works of God is the message of the Gospel in order to bring people to faith in the Son of God. What follows is an annotated list of resources I have found helpfull in the last couple of years since I took an active interest in the Creation Evolution controversy.

Naturalistic Methodology:

First of all the biggest problem is not with scientific itself or even the theory of evolution, it's the view that science must be restricted to underected natural processes. In order to understand the real problem with Darwinism you need a philosopher to sort out the issues. Paul Nelson is a Philosophy Professor at the University of Chicogo. He is one of the intellectual giants of what has come to be known as Intelligent Design. Evolutionists would like to distract you from the fact by insisting this is all about science. That's simply not true, this is about a philosophy of history. They don't want you to look at the philosophy that is really behind the curtain pulling the levers.

Jettison the Argument of the Rule, Paul Nelson

Paul Nelson is a theistic scholar that believes that natural science leaves room for theistic reasoning. Intelligent Design is an attempt to identify design empirically. Scientists are starting to see this and a small group is working tirelessly to turn the tide. William Dembski describes the problem in this way:

"Now the Darwinain establishment so defines sceince that naturalistic evolution alone can constitute a legitimate scientific answer to the question How did life originate and develop? Nonetheless, when Stephen Jay Gould, Michael Ruse, Richard Dawkins, George Gaylord Simpson and other disciples assiret that naturalistic evolution is true, they purpose that naturalistic evolution is the conclusion of a scientific argument based on empirical evidence. But it is nother of the sort. The empirical evidence is in fact weak, and the conclusion follows necessarily as a strict logical deduction once science is as a matter of defintion restricted to undirected natural processes. Naturalistic evolution is therefore built directly into a naturalistic construal of sceince."

(William Dembski, Intelligent Design)

What on earth is going on here? This comes from a very simple question, how do we know with certainty what has happened in the distant past? From a Biblical perspective God acting creation and throughout history is not even a serious question:

"Great and marvelous are your works,
Lord God Almighty!
Just and true are all your ways,
King of the Ages!
Who will not worship you Oh Lord, and give glory to your name?
For you alone are holy.
For all nations shall come and worship before you,
For your righteous deeds have been revealed."

(Revelation 15:3,4)

The Bible is a book that records the wonderfull works of God down through human history. The whole issue is history and how we know anything about the past. Creationists read the Bible as a history book but the world wants you to think it's just mythology and legend. One of the main issues is human ancestory. Genesis is an historical narrative that makes undeniable statements about our lineage:

"All scholars agree that the most significant and distinguishing phrase in Genesis is "these are the generations of." Commentators of all theological schools divide the book around that phrase, which is found eleven times in Genesis (2:4; 5:1; 6:9; 10:1; 11:10, 27; 25:12, 19; 36:1, 9;37:2)

<---very annoyed! Can't seem to make my quotes work. :s

I enjoyed this start to your article Mark. And I feel this really speaks to Christians. Thank you. I am looking forward to more.

As far as those with no faith in the Bible.... well, there's a whole Biblical authenticity arguement that must be won before arguements like this can be heard. But that's another ball of wax

[moderators note: I took the liberty of editing this post since the quotes were not working. I removed the formating but nothing else has been changed.

 

[Dannager]

You guys have no problem with having these cross-posted to Origins Theology so they can be analyzed, right?

 

[Gwenyfur]

I am interested when I have the time, which will come and go. One suggestion that I have is to do some collaborative efforts. Some people may have some ideas; but don’t know how to put them into words, don’t have time to do so, or haven’t fleshed everything out. If someone that had an idea could get together with someone that could verify the data or investigate further and put it in essay form, then that would remove a barrier that some may have. I know in the past, I’ve had some ideas floating around in my head that I would like to flesh out, but I haven’t had time to spend on them.

That's me! I can read and learn and read and learn, but when it comes to putting it into text/debate I get lost very easily...

I am workign locally with pastors and school teachers and teaching them about YEC it's going rather well...I guess I'm more of an audial person than visual heh...
but I can help with research and such if needed...

anyhow...there's my volunteer and why I haven't jumped as yet...

Mark...you've seen me get flustered LOL

Remus thanks for making this remark and opening the door for my 2 cents

 

[mark kennedy]

That's me! I can read and learn and read and learn, but when it comes to putting it into text/debate I get lost very easily...

I am workign locally with pastors and school teachers and teaching them about YEC it's going rather well...I guess I'm more of an audial person than visual heh...
but I can help with research and such if needed...

anyhow...there's my volunteer and why I haven't jumped as yet...

Mark...you've seen me get flustered LOL

Remus thanks for making this remark and opening the door for my 2 cents

Just let us know how things are going and feel free to share anytime. My idea of a creationist club was just to get creationists to express their thoughts in the forum. I think what you are doing is exceptional by those standards. By the way, there is no time limit on a post to the Creationist essay thread, if the Spirit moves you your thoughts will be welcome there.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[mark kennedy]

<---very annoyed! Can't seem to make my quotes work. :s

I enjoyed this start to your article Mark. And I feel this really speaks to Christians. Thank you. I am looking forward to more.

As far as those with no faith in the Bible.... well, there's a whole Biblical authenticity arguement that must be won before arguements like this can be heard. But that's another ball of wax

That's one of the things about creationism, it's hard to communicate how history is important in Scripture. I kind of ran into a hard spot there when I started thinking about Joseph, Daniel, Esther and Nehemiah. They all stood in pivitol points in the course of human history. Of course lets not leave out Jesus and the Apostles, especially Paul.

I'm trying to get up the gumption to track down the links that helped me in my creation debates. It will take a little time but I think you will like the links when I am up to it.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[Pats]

That's one of the things about creationism, it's hard to communicate how history is important in Scripture. I kind of ran into a hard spot there when I started thinking about Joseph, Daniel, Esther and Nehemiah. They all stood in pivitol points in the course of human history. Of course lets not leave out Jesus and the Apostles, especially Paul.

I'm trying to get up the gumption to track down the links that helped me in my creation debates. It will take a little time but I think you will like the links when I am up to it.

Grace and peace,
Mark

Looking forward to it

 

[Je5u5luvzu]

The theme is Creationism, what does it mean, where does it come from and where is it going? I'm tired of talking to evolutionists about this, I want to hear from creationists.

I think it is a great idea to have a place to give our thoughts and to learn more about Creationism. I, too, am tired of hearing evolutionist's argument, but do not get me wrong, I think it is important to persuade others to find alternatives to purely scientific philosophy. I think if we put enough effort into understanding these scientific explanations we can better communicate creationism to them.

 

[FallingWaters]

First of all I'd like to say this is a wonderful idea!

Creationist, like myself, who have a limited knowledge of the scientific terminology and logic behind many evolutionary ideas need a place they can go to get honest biblically based answers without getting into an argument.

Amen, Brother!

 

[FallingWaters]

Excuse me for commenting here, but, a six-day creation is fundamental to the YEC position. Next comes Noah's Ark and the worldwide flood. Third is the chronological order of generational descent from the time of Adam and Eve leaving very little leeway for an earth older than 10,000 years. At least this is the scenario and timetable outlined in "The Genesis Flood" by Morris and Whitcomb, and commonly held by leading creationists at ICR and AIG.

How many posters here stand alone on that platform?

I am a student of ICR and AIG materials, and agree with all you have just stated.

 

[A4C]

A great Idea Mark
My suggestion is that core beliefs (7 day creation , world wide flood etc.) be clearly outlined and some sort of "agreement" takes place so that there is no compromise on these issues.

 

[FallingWaters]

Of course OEC will be welcome. The issue is not whether or not the earth is 3 billion years old but whether or not life was creation 6-10 thousand years ago.

Grace and peace,
Mark

You mean they're not going to argue with YECs? Because I thought having a place of agreement instaed of having to argue was the main purpose.

 

[mark kennedy]

You mean they're not going to argue with YECs? Because I thought having a place of agreement instaed of having to argue was the main purpose.

The idea was to pool resources and positive proof for Creationism. I was most interested in posts like they have in the Quiet Thread in the Creation/evolution forum. You could post more technical discussions and the resources you have posted a hundred times before.

I suggested it to Erwin but never heard anything back from him. I think the idea could be a big help for creationists if it was done right.

 

[BrandonGray]

i like the idea a lot- a lot of evolutionists I know at my school made their own type of club where they tried to prove the creationists wrong. It hasn't worked and can't (because you can't disprove the truth) but they have gained a lot of knowlege and know what their talking about.

 

[mark kennedy]

I decided that aside from a sticky with creationist resources there wouldn't be much a Creationist Club could do on CF. I have a blog I'm working on and I was thinking there might be a way for Creationists to network. I'm going to take some of the posts I have gotten here and try to develop something for my blog. I'll bump the thread and let everyone know how it's going.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[mark kennedy]

You mean they're not going to argue with YECs? Because I thought having a place of agreement instaed of having to argue was the main purpose.

No, of of course I'm not going to argue with YECs or OECs for that matter, I don't see a dimes worth of difference. Adam and Eve specially created 6-10 thousand years ago, the father and mother of the entire human family is the only doctrinal issue for me.