Update note: I understand that many of the questions below can apply to people who do not practice the occult or even to ourselves but the purpose of these questions is to try and see if there is an underlying agenda of a person or persons to undermine the credibility of the bible, the church or those of the faith. I think these are hard questions. In fact, I know they are hard questions and we probably don't want to think about them or they make us uncomfortable. But we need to be aware. We have to keep watch over ourselves, our doctrine and our churches. There are spiritual consequences with associating with unbelievers. This led to the destruction of Israel and the holy temple. It is the first thing we are warned not to do in Psalms. We can't be "nice" for the sake of appearances or let things slide that are of the occult. This must be removed from us for it seeks to destroy us.
I think the true catholic Church must face the fact that there are (and I believe will continue to be until Christ's coming) false sheep and false shepherds in the flock. We are warned of this by Paul.
"I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves will arise men speaking twisted things, to draw away the disciples after them. Therefore be alert..." (Acts 20:29-31 ESV)
In keeping with Paul's command to be alert I am bringing to your attention this website I found [(Please note: After reviewing more of the materials on this site I do not agree with everything that they have to say and do not want to appear to be endorsing all of their viewpoints so I am deleting the reference to their website - however, I still agree with the warning they provide as discussed following)]. The authors discuss their concern for the infiltration of churches by Luciferians and Satanists. I do not bring this to your attention to stir up suspicion and distrust but to wake you up to the truth. Satan does not play fair and he will not spare. There are those in some of our churches who are actively trying to sabotage the church and are sending curses and spells on the people of the church and in particular the church leadership. The church leadership may then, under the influence of these spells, be led into false doctrine or teachings without their knowledge. Some pastors are even false shepherds. How do we address this? Well per Matthew 7:16 you will know them by their fruits, and so here are some questions to consider...
1) What topics of conversation do the people in your church speak about?
Do they slander other churches and their pastors or practitioners? Now, it is one thing to discuss false teachings in a manner that is meant to educate but with discernment you should be able to tell the difference between edification or slander.
Do they gossip about people inside and outside of the church? This only serves to sow division in the church.
Do they lie about themselves or others? I think we are all guilty of this but does it appear to be something systematic and without any type of repentance? Are they targeting specific people (in particular the pastor or church elders)? Why are they targeting these people?
Do they target or try to twist specific doctrines? Do they elevate one doctrine over the expense of another? Do they use the Bible as a means of gaining (be it power, prestige or money) instead of submitting to it with humility?
Do they believe in the power of numerology? Do they feel there is particular importance to saying a prayer a certain number of times? Are they focused on repetition in their prayers (this is different from lecto divina or contemplation)? What I mean is, do they think there is something important about saying a prayer 3 times, 7 times, 10 times, etc.?
2) What activities outside of church do they participate in?
Are any of them practitioners of yoga, the new age, reiki healing, meditation or the like?
Do they consult horoscopes, palm readers, diviners?
Do they practice self-hypnosis or consult hypnotists?
Do they use visualization techniques to try and "manifest" realities?
Do they carry anything with them for good luck or do they attach importance to certain objects? What about in their homes? Do they have any idols?
Do they believe in luck? Luck does not exist and is counter to the reality that God is in control of all things. I pray you banish this concept from your thoughts and words. All is from God, he determines the lot.
Do they celebrate pagan holidays like Halloween? Yes, this is pagan and wrong.
If so then they may be under the influence of the spirits associated with these practices and slaves to them (Romans 6:13) because many, if not most, of these practices are connected with the occult.
In a gentle way we must bring to their attention that many of these things have connections with the occult and can bring their souls into bondage. If they will not listen, then we must be firm and not associate with such people. Lines of division must be made. If they are doing these things then we should not even eat with such people nor give them any greeting. If this sounds hard to do it very well may be; however, those we associate with are those we approve of. Per John, if you give them a greeting or let them in your homes then you approve of their occult practices (2 John 1:10).
There appears to be lost in these days the biblical notion of "accord" or "consent" and its consequences. Accord and consent is part and parcel of fellowship and communion. It is a most important concept. I think because in the world legal system we ascribe much less guilt or perhaps no guilt with agreeing with the wrong actions of another we do not pay it the due importance it merits. Intent is not a crime (I believe for the most part anyways) in the U.S. legal system but it is in the courts of God. So is approval and endorsement of the actions of others. In a way you are casting a vote approving of their actions.
Please consider the questions raised here. It may be that some in your church are misinformed (I suspect this will be many cases) but some might be intentionally trying to sabotage the church. As to how to proceed in terms of who you should speak to and whether or not you should leave your church I pray the Holy Spirit guides you. But we are not to associate with such people or give them any greeting.
Lord Jesus Christ, I pray that you flush out all that is not of you within us and within our churches. Please expose the works of darkness in our churches and the false shepherds and sheep, the wolves among the lambs. Bless us with keen discernment that we may be able to identify them and guide us in the correct course of action to deal with them. Amen.
I think the true catholic Church must face the fact that there are (and I believe will continue to be until Christ's coming) false sheep and false shepherds in the flock. We are warned of this by Paul.
"I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves will arise men speaking twisted things, to draw away the disciples after them. Therefore be alert..." (Acts 20:29-31 ESV)
In keeping with Paul's command to be alert I am bringing to your attention this website I found [(Please note: After reviewing more of the materials on this site I do not agree with everything that they have to say and do not want to appear to be endorsing all of their viewpoints so I am deleting the reference to their website - however, I still agree with the warning they provide as discussed following)]. The authors discuss their concern for the infiltration of churches by Luciferians and Satanists. I do not bring this to your attention to stir up suspicion and distrust but to wake you up to the truth. Satan does not play fair and he will not spare. There are those in some of our churches who are actively trying to sabotage the church and are sending curses and spells on the people of the church and in particular the church leadership. The church leadership may then, under the influence of these spells, be led into false doctrine or teachings without their knowledge. Some pastors are even false shepherds. How do we address this? Well per Matthew 7:16 you will know them by their fruits, and so here are some questions to consider...
1) What topics of conversation do the people in your church speak about?
Do they slander other churches and their pastors or practitioners? Now, it is one thing to discuss false teachings in a manner that is meant to educate but with discernment you should be able to tell the difference between edification or slander.
Do they gossip about people inside and outside of the church? This only serves to sow division in the church.
Do they lie about themselves or others? I think we are all guilty of this but does it appear to be something systematic and without any type of repentance? Are they targeting specific people (in particular the pastor or church elders)? Why are they targeting these people?
Do they target or try to twist specific doctrines? Do they elevate one doctrine over the expense of another? Do they use the Bible as a means of gaining (be it power, prestige or money) instead of submitting to it with humility?
Do they believe in the power of numerology? Do they feel there is particular importance to saying a prayer a certain number of times? Are they focused on repetition in their prayers (this is different from lecto divina or contemplation)? What I mean is, do they think there is something important about saying a prayer 3 times, 7 times, 10 times, etc.?
2) What activities outside of church do they participate in?
Are any of them practitioners of yoga, the new age, reiki healing, meditation or the like?
Do they consult horoscopes, palm readers, diviners?
Do they practice self-hypnosis or consult hypnotists?
Do they use visualization techniques to try and "manifest" realities?
Do they carry anything with them for good luck or do they attach importance to certain objects? What about in their homes? Do they have any idols?
Do they believe in luck? Luck does not exist and is counter to the reality that God is in control of all things. I pray you banish this concept from your thoughts and words. All is from God, he determines the lot.
Do they celebrate pagan holidays like Halloween? Yes, this is pagan and wrong.
If so then they may be under the influence of the spirits associated with these practices and slaves to them (Romans 6:13) because many, if not most, of these practices are connected with the occult.
In a gentle way we must bring to their attention that many of these things have connections with the occult and can bring their souls into bondage. If they will not listen, then we must be firm and not associate with such people. Lines of division must be made. If they are doing these things then we should not even eat with such people nor give them any greeting. If this sounds hard to do it very well may be; however, those we associate with are those we approve of. Per John, if you give them a greeting or let them in your homes then you approve of their occult practices (2 John 1:10).
There appears to be lost in these days the biblical notion of "accord" or "consent" and its consequences. Accord and consent is part and parcel of fellowship and communion. It is a most important concept. I think because in the world legal system we ascribe much less guilt or perhaps no guilt with agreeing with the wrong actions of another we do not pay it the due importance it merits. Intent is not a crime (I believe for the most part anyways) in the U.S. legal system but it is in the courts of God. So is approval and endorsement of the actions of others. In a way you are casting a vote approving of their actions.
Please consider the questions raised here. It may be that some in your church are misinformed (I suspect this will be many cases) but some might be intentionally trying to sabotage the church. As to how to proceed in terms of who you should speak to and whether or not you should leave your church I pray the Holy Spirit guides you. But we are not to associate with such people or give them any greeting.
Lord Jesus Christ, I pray that you flush out all that is not of you within us and within our churches. Please expose the works of darkness in our churches and the false shepherds and sheep, the wolves among the lambs. Bless us with keen discernment that we may be able to identify them and guide us in the correct course of action to deal with them. Amen.
