Originally Posted by Ben johnson
12. "Belief", means "abide in Christ and in His love". We are admonished to "keep ourselves in His love (building ourselves in faith!)", Jude1:20-21. Rebuked to be diligent that we HAVE godly fruits, that we enter Heaven, 2Pet1:5-10 (even given as bad-example a man who WAS saved, but is now IMPURE). Warned to take care regarding ourselves and our teaching, persevere that WE SAVE OURSELVES, 1Tim4:16.
The Jude 1:20-21 verses specifically say "to keep yourselves in God's love while you wait for the mercy of the Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life." The point is clear that the folks being talked to are saved and expecting eternal life. The phrase "while you wait" would not have been used if they were not already expecting it. They are being told to keep themselves in God's love - not to maintain their salvation - but because they already have it. You have so misinterpreted this verse to make it into a works doctrine which couldn't be further from the original intent of the auther. Hey - why don't you take a look at verse 22 and apply it, bro! Responsible grace does everything BUT show mercy to those who doubt. All it does it burden them with works and tells them they have to do this or that to stay saved. Take a look at verse 24 too while your at it - it clearly points out the fallicy of responisble grace when it clearly states who keeps us from falling!
And where does it say in 2 Peter 1:5-10 that the persons who do not do those things will go to hell. In fact what is the end result of those who do not do those things? Simpy this - they are ineffective (vs 8) and he has forgotten that he HAS BEEN CLEANSED from past sins (vs 9). The result is NOT damnation. Why - because these folks are saved!
In 1 Timothy 4:16 are you trying to tell us that Paul actually meant we save ourselves and others? So now we can save ourselves and others? What the heck is the point of Jesus coming to die for our sins then? Surely this is not what Paul meant - that we can save ourselves. Save ourselves from what? It specifically doesn't say from Hell. Verse 16 cannot be speaking of eternal implications - otherwise everything else that Paul wrote in his other epistles are moot points. But since you aren't even faithful enough to your eroneous doctrine of responible grace to apply Hebrews 6:4-6 correctly then of course I would expect you to automatically assume that 1 Timother 4:16 is automatically speaking with eternal implications in mind. That you, me, Paul, and Timothy all have it within ourselves to save ourseves and others from eternal damnation.
And where does it say in 2 Peter 1:5-10 that the persons who do not do those things will go to hell. In fact what is the end result of those who do not do those things? Simpy this - they are ineffective (vs 8) and he has forgotten that he HAS BEEN CLEANSED from past sins (vs 9). The result is NOT damnation. Why - because these folks are saved!
In 1 Timothy 4:16 are you trying to tell us that Paul actually meant we save ourselves and others? So now we can save ourselves and others? What the heck is the point of Jesus coming to die for our sins then? Surely this is not what Paul meant - that we can save ourselves. Save ourselves from what? It specifically doesn't say from Hell. Verse 16 cannot be speaking of eternal implications - otherwise everything else that Paul wrote in his other epistles are moot points. But since you aren't even faithful enough to your eroneous doctrine of responible grace to apply Hebrews 6:4-6 correctly then of course I would expect you to automatically assume that 1 Timother 4:16 is automatically speaking with eternal implications in mind. That you, me, Paul, and Timothy all have it within ourselves to save ourseves and others from eternal damnation.
