(Re: Do some things that *Clement says require that Revelation was written down in the time of Nero?)
No, for Clement of Alexandria saying that the teaching "of the apostles, embracing the ministry of Paul, ends with Nero" (The Stromata, or Miscellanies 7:17:4) does not require that the apostle John saw his Revelation vision in the time of Nero. For Clement could have rightly considered Revelation to be a subsequent teaching directly from the Lord Jesus Christ Himself (Revelation 1:1, Revelation 22:16), for whom John was simply an amanuensis (Revelation 1:11,19).
Also, when Clement says: "...the Apostle John. For when, on the tyrant's death, he returned to Ephesus from the isle of Patmos" (Salvation of the Rich Man, 42:1), Clement could have been referring to the death of Domitian.
Nero was not the only person referred to as "the tyrant" in early Christian writings. For example, "The Encyclical Epistle of the Church at Smyrna Concerning the Martyrdom of the Holy Polycarp" refers to "the tyrant" (chapter 2c) in connection with the martyrdom of Polycarp circa 155 AD, some 100 years after the time of Nero.
Domitian was clearly a tyrant, for "The Martyrdom of Ignatius" refers to "the many persecutions under Domitian" which Ignatius "the disciple of John the apostle" had escaped (chapter 1). So the apostle John could have returned to Ephesus from Patmos after the death of Domitian.
Also, nothing which Clement of Alexandria says regarding the apostle John subsequent to John's return to Ephesus from Patmos requires that John was not an old man. An old man could say: "let a horse be brought me, and let some one be my guide on the way" (Salvation of the Rich Man, 42:3b). And after John is subsequently captured by some brigands and no doubt forced to dismount, Clement refers to John "forgetting his age" in trying to pursue their chief, and quotes John as saying: "Why, my son, dost thou flee from me, thy father, unarmed, old? Son, pity me" (Salvation of the Rich Man, 42:3c). Then Clement again refers to John as "the old man" (Salvation of the Rich Man, 42:4).
--
*Revelation 1:3 / *Rev. 1:3 -
(Re: *Keeping/*Obeying Revelation)
The original Greek word (tereo: G5083) translated as "keep" in Revelation 1:3 can be used in the sense of obeying commandments (John 14:15), but almost all of Revelation does not consist of commandments but of prophecies of future events (Revelation 1:1,3, Revelation 22:7), which are not things to be obeyed. For example, how would Christians obey the prophecy regarding the strange locust-like beings (Revelation 9:3-11)? Instead, tereo/keep in Revelation 1:3 and Revelation 22:7 is used in the sense of holding onto something precious (John 12:7, John 2:10b, John 17:11-12,15, Ephesians 4:3) instead of casting it away as worthless. Christians are to keep/hold onto all of the book of Revelation as being the precious truth from Jesus Christ to the Church (Revelation 1:1, Revelation 22:16), just as Christians are to keep/hold onto Christian faith itself (2 Timothy 4:7b) even during the worst time for the Church during the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).
--
*Revelation 1:4 / *Rev. 1:4 -
(Seven Spirits)
See Revelation 4:5 below.
--
*Revelation 1:5b / *Rev. 1:5b -
(Re: OSAS?)
See Hebrews 10:26 above.
--
*Revelation 1:6 / *Rev. 1:6 -
Whereas Christians are kings and priests now (Revelation 1:6; 1 Peter 2:9) and are in the Kingdom of God's spiritual aspect now (Romans 14:17), they are not yet in the Kingdom of God's physical aspect (Luke 22:30, Matthew 19:28) which will be on the earth during the future Millennium (of Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29).
(See also paragraphs 3-5 of Acts 1:6 above)
--
*Revelation 1:7 / *Rev. 1:7 -
This will not happen until after the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:11-21). Revelation 1:7 means that Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming will not be invisible, secret or local, but will be obvious to everyone at the same time (Matthew 24:26-31, Revelation 19:11-21).
Everyone will literally see with their own eyes Jesus Christ's Second Coming in literal clouds (Revelation 1:7, Matthew 24:30), just as Jesus' apostles literally saw His ascension into a literal cloud at the end of His first coming (Acts 1:9-11).
(See Acts 1:11 above)
~
(They also which pierced him)
Revelation 1:7, like Matthew 26:64 and Mark 14:62... (See "does not mean" under Matthew 26:64 above)
~
(Earth)
In Revelation 1:7, as in Matthew 24:30, the original Greek word (ge: G1093) translated as "earth" can refer to the planet (Revelation 14:7, Revelation 21:1, Matthew 6:10, Matthew 28:18).
--
*Revelation 1:9 / *Rev. 1:9 -
Here, "the" tribulation in the original Greek is the general tribulation which the Church has experienced from its beginning (Acts 14:22, John 16:33). There is also the still-future, unprecedented Tribulation (Matthew 24:21-22) of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 which the Church will experience just-preceding Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6). Also, the various trials which individual Christians undergo, including currently, can be referred to as plural "tribulations" (Romans 5:3, Ephesians 3:13; 2 Thessalonians 1:4).
~
Revelation 1:9-10 happened in the first century AD when the apostle John was on the island of Patmos and saw a vision of Jesus Christ.
--
*Revelation 1:10 / *Rev. 1:10 -
This means that the apostle John was in God's Holy Spirit on the first day of the week, which is now commonly called Sunday. For after the Lord Jesus Christ rose physically from the dead on the first day of the week (Mark 16:9), the early Church referred to the first day of the week as the Lord's day: "no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him" (The Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians, chapter 9. Ignatius was a contemporary of John).
So Revelation 1:10 is speaking of Sunday: the apostle John was in God's Holy Spirit on a Sunday in the first century AD when he heard behind him a great voice.
~
(Re: Will you find that in the Bible?)
No, but you will find it in the writings of Ignatius, the apostle John's contemporary in the early Church. Also, you will not find in the Bible anything which contradicts that the early Church referred to the first day of the week as the Lord's day.
(Re: *Choinix)
There are some verses in the Bible for which, in order to for us to understand them properly today, we need to recover common, extra-Biblical knowledge which people back in Bible times already had without the Bible having to give it to them.
For example, when Revelation 6:6 says: "A measure of wheat for a penny", the original Greek says a "choinix" (G5518) of wheat for a "denarion" (G1220). But the Bible does not explain how big a measure a choinix is or how much money a denarion is. For back when Revelation 6:6 was written, those who knew Greek already knew how big a measure a choinix is and how much money a denarion is. But today we need to go to extra-Biblical sources to recover the knowledge that a denarion is a day's wages and a choinix is probably about a quart (which is how the 1984 NIV translated "choinix"). So Revelation 6:6 is saying that food will be so expensive that people will have to work an entire day just to be able to buy a quart of wheat (think of a loaf of bread). But without going to extra-Biblical sources to properly understand Revelation 6:6, Christians today could read the KJV of that verse and go away with completely the wrong idea: that food will be so inexpensive that people will be able buy a loaf of bread for just a penny.
(Re: 666)
Just as the translators of the words of the Greek scriptures into English had to learn from extra-Biblical sources what those Greek words meant before they could translate them into English, so translators of Revelation 13:18 in the original Greek Textus Receptus had to learn from extra-Biblical sources that the last three Greek letters in that verse stand for three different numbers, according to the rules of gematria, and that those numbers have to be added together, again according to the rules of gematria, before the translators could properly translate those three different Greek letters into the number six hundred and sixty-six.
(See the "Wisdom" section of Revelation 13:18 below)
~
(Re: Have you "left your first love" by going outside of the Bible's own "words of eternal life"?)
Note that Revelation 2:4's and John 6:68's original Greek does not use any of the English words which you just quoted, nor do those Bible verses or any other Bible verses explain to someone who does not know Greek what the original Greek words in those verses mean.
~
(Re: What is Revelation about if not the Day of the Lord?)
Revelation is about many different things, not just the Day of the Lord. For Revelation is about things concerning seven, literal, first century AD local church congregations in seven cities in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11, Revelation chapters 2-3). And Revelation is about things which the apostle John saw in heaven (Revelation chapters 4-5), and other things which will occur on the earth during the future Tribulation (Revelation chapters 6 to 18), and other things which will occur at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming and during the subsequent Millennium (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6), and other things which will occur sometime after the future Millennium (Revelation 20:7 to 21:8). It is only Revelation chapters 19-20 which are about the Day of the Lord which will begin at the Lord Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (1 Corinthians 1:7-8; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10) and will be like a 1,000-year "day" (2 Peter 3:8).
(See also 2 Thessalonians 2:2 above)
~
(Re: Is the trumpet in Revelation 1:10 either the future Tribulation's seventh trumpet or the subsequent Second Coming trumpet?)
No, it is neither, for Revelation 1:10b simply means that the apostle John heard a literal voice behind him which sounded only "like" a trumpet. And the next verse shows that this voice was Jesus Christ's, telling John to write down what he would see and send it to seven, literal, first century AD local church congregations in seven cities in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11), which is today western Turkey.
It is not until Revelation 11:15, long after Revelation 1:10, that the apostle John sees an angel sound the seventh trumpet during the Tribulation. Also, in Revelation 11:15 the seventh angel is not speaking but literally sounding a trumpet which had been given to him years earlier, after Jesus Christ had opened the Tribulation's seventh seal (Revelation 8:1-2).
The literal, Second Coming trumpet (1 Thessalonians 4:15-16; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,52) will not be blown until immediately after the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31).
(See also the "last trump" section of 1 Thessalonians 4:16 above, and see the "Chronological" section of Revelation chapters 6 to 22 (Overview) below)
--
*Revelation 1:11 / *Rev. 1:11 -
(Re: Did the apostle Paul visit and mention in his epistles every church in Revelation 1:11 which existed in his time, meaning that some of them did not exist in his time?)
Note that nothing requires that, for Colossians 2:1 means that the apostle Paul had not visited every church in the world which existed in his time. And Colossians 2:1 could mean that Paul had not even visited the churches in Colosse and Laodicea even though he wrote letters to both (Colossians 4:16). Also, the letter which Paul wrote to the church in Laodicea (Colossians 4:16) did not survive to make it into the New Testament. So Paul could have written other letters to all seven of the church congregations in Revelation 1:11, but only the letter to one of them could have survived to make it into the New Testament as the book/epistle of Ephesians.
(Compare also 1 Corinthians 5:9 above)
--
*Revelation 1:12b / *Rev. 1:12b -
(*Candlesticks)
Revelation 1:12's seven candlesticks which Jesus Christ was standing among at the time of the apostle John (Revelation 1:13) represented seven, literal, first century AD local church congregations in seven cities in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:20b, Revelation 1:11b), which is today western Turkey.
There is no connection between these seven candlesticks and the imagery much later of the two candlesticks of the two individual-man witnesses who will prophesy during the latter half of the future Tribulation (Revelation 11:3-12), just as, for example, there is no connection of (actual) identity between the lamb imagery in Revelation 5:6 and the lamb imagery in Revelation 13:11.
That is, just because a symbol represents one thing in one verse in the Bible does not mean that it has to represent that same thing in every other verse in the Bible. For example, while a lion represents Satan in 1 Peter 5:8, a lion represents Jesus Christ in Revelation 5:5.
(See also the "Candlesticks" section of Revelation 1:20 below, and see Revelation 11:3 below)
--
*Revelation 1:14–18 / *Rev. 1:14 -
(Re: Means that Jesus is not in the flesh?)
See section 3 of 1 John 3:2-3 above.
--
*Revelation 1:16 / *Rev. 1:16 -
(Stars)
See Revelation 1:20 below.
~
(Sword)
See Revelation 19:15 below.
--
*Revelation 1:19 / *Rev. 1:19 -
The "things which shall be hereafter" (Revelation 1:19) include all of the "things which must be hereafter" (Revelation 4:1b), that is, all of the still-future events of Revelation chapters 6 to 22.
--
*Revelation 1:20 / *Rev. 1:20 -
(Stars / angels)
The "angels" of the seven, literal, first century AD local church congregations in seven cities in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:20, Revelation 1:11) could have been seven human messengers sent by those churches to the apostle John on the island of Patmos (Revelation 1:9). For in Revelation 1:20 the original Greek word (aggelos: G0032) translated as "angels" can refer to human "messengers" (Luke 7:24).
~
(Re: Were not there ten churches in Roman "Asia", so that the seven churches have to be symbolic?)
In what cities were the other three churches in Roman "Asia"?
Also, the seven churches can be literally seven because they can be the only churches in Roman "Asia" (which is today western Turkey) which sent messengers to the apostle John on the island of Patmos, which was just off the coast of Roman "Asia".
Also, any symbolic uses of "seven" in the Bible do not require that all uses of "seven" in the Bible are symbolic. For example, just as the seven deacons in Acts 6:3-6 were literally seven people, so the seven churches in Revelation 1:11 were literally seven churches.
(See the section above)
~
(Candlesticks / churches)
The very last part of Revelation 1:20 does not require a "the" in the original Greek before "seven churches" for it to be referring to the same seven churches just mentioned earlier in Revelation 1:20 and Revelation 1:11, just as, for example, Revelation 1:13 does not require a "the" in the original Greek before "Son of man" for it to be referring to the Son of man (John 13:31).
~
(Mystery)
The mystery of Revelation 1:20 relates only to some things which the apostle John had just seen, and the mystery is explained by Jesus Christ Himself to the entire Church through John's writing it down. There are no "need-to-know" restrictions on anything written down in Revelation, for it is an unsealed book (Revelation 22:10), open for any Christian to read (or to hear read) and so be blessed (Revelation 1:3).
(See also the "Literal" section of Revelation chapters 6 to 22 (Overview) below)
--
*Revelation chapters 2-3 / *Rev. chs. 2-3 -
The seven letters to seven churches in Revelation chapters 2-3 were sent to seven, literal, first century AD local church congregations in seven cities in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11), which is today western Turkey.
Similarly, the letters of the New Testament books of Romans, 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 Thessalonians and 2 Thessalonians were sent to literal, first century AD local church congregations in seven places in the Roman empire.
And just as nothing requires that this latter set of letters addresses "seven church ages", so nothing requires (as is sometimes claimed) that the former set does.
Also, the entire Bible is profitable for Christians (2 Timothy 3:16), so they can learn lessons for their own lives today by reading all of these letters.
~
(Re: Do not the chapters have a chiastic structure, so that they must be symbolic?)
How has it been shown that something with a chiastic structure must be symbolic?
For example, what would require a sentence like: "To go forth I dare not, yet I fear to sit still", with the chiastic structure of action-thought-thought-action, would have to refer to something symbolic?
~
(Re: Are not the first and last churches in the most danger, the second and second-to-last churches praised, and the middling churches middling?)
How has that been shown?
For example, how is the first church addressed in Revelation chapters 2-3, the church in Ephesus (Revelation 2:1-6), necessarily in any more danger spiritually than the fifth church addressed, in Sardis (Revelation 3:1-3)?
Also, the second church and the second-to-last church addressed are not the only ones praised. For example, the first church addressed is praised in Revelation 2:2-3,6.
~
(Re: Are Revelation chapters 2-3 just John's musings to some ancient Jews?)
No, for the author of the book of Revelation (also called the Apocalypse) is God the Father, who gave it to Jesus Christ to give to the Church through an angel and the apostle John (Revelation 1:1-2, Revelation 22:16).
The person in authority who is addressing the seven churches of Revelation 1:11, in the letters of Revelation chapters 2-3, is Jesus Christ Himself, not the apostle John. And in everything which John says to the churches in Revelation 1, he always refers to God the Father and/or to Jesus Christ and/or to the Holy Spirit (Revelation 1:4-7,9-10), never to his own authority as an apostle. For this is not his book. He is simply its amanuensis (Revelation 1:19,2).
In each of the seven cities mentioned by name in Revelation 1:11b, a New Covenant church (ekklesia) existed at the time that the book of Revelation was written down in 95 AD (Irenaeus, Against Heresies 5:30:3c). That is why Revelation 1:11 refers to "the seven churches" (ekklesia) and why each of the seven letters in Revelation chapters 2-3 is addressed to "the church" (ekklesia) in one of those seven cities (Revelation 2:1,8,12,18, Revelation 3:1,7,14), which word (ekklesia) would apply to any New Covenant congregation regardless of whether those churches contained Jewish Christians (cf. 1 Thessalonians 2:14, Galatians 1:22, Acts 9:31) or Gentile Christians (cf. Romans 16:4) or any mixture thereof (cf. Acts 6:1, Acts 11:20-26). For there are no Christians outside of the Church (1 Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 4:4-5, Ephesians 1:22-23).
Revelation chapters 1-3 do not say or require that the seven, first century AD local church congregations in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11) consisted entirely of Jewish Christians instead of a mixture of both Jewish and Gentile Christians. For the passage about the "one new man" in Ephesians 2:15b is addressed to Gentile Christians in Ephesus (Ephesians 2:11), and Ephesus was one of the seven, first century AD local church congregations in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11).
(See also Ephesians 2:12 above, and the "enmity" section of Ephesians 2:15 above)
--
*Revelation 2:2 / *Rev. 2:2 -
The false apostles in Ephesus (Revelation 2:1-2) were the "wolves" which Paul the true apostle had foretold the Christians of Ephesus about (Acts 20:17,29-30). Paul was martyred for Jesus Christ in Rome about 62 AD, whereas Jesus had the letter of Revelation 2:1-8 sent to the Christians of Ephesus about 95 AD. For Revelation was written down toward the end of Domitian's reign (Irenaeus, Against Heresies 5:30:3c).
--
*Revelation 2:5 / *Rev. 2:5 -
(Re: Jesus coming)
See Revelation 3:3 below.
--
*Revelation 2:6 / *Rev. 2:6 -
(Nicolaitans)
See Revelation 2:15 below.
-
Next entry / Prior / Table of Contents
Dec 26, 2018
No, for Clement of Alexandria saying that the teaching "of the apostles, embracing the ministry of Paul, ends with Nero" (The Stromata, or Miscellanies 7:17:4) does not require that the apostle John saw his Revelation vision in the time of Nero. For Clement could have rightly considered Revelation to be a subsequent teaching directly from the Lord Jesus Christ Himself (Revelation 1:1, Revelation 22:16), for whom John was simply an amanuensis (Revelation 1:11,19).
Also, when Clement says: "...the Apostle John. For when, on the tyrant's death, he returned to Ephesus from the isle of Patmos" (Salvation of the Rich Man, 42:1), Clement could have been referring to the death of Domitian.
Nero was not the only person referred to as "the tyrant" in early Christian writings. For example, "The Encyclical Epistle of the Church at Smyrna Concerning the Martyrdom of the Holy Polycarp" refers to "the tyrant" (chapter 2c) in connection with the martyrdom of Polycarp circa 155 AD, some 100 years after the time of Nero.
Domitian was clearly a tyrant, for "The Martyrdom of Ignatius" refers to "the many persecutions under Domitian" which Ignatius "the disciple of John the apostle" had escaped (chapter 1). So the apostle John could have returned to Ephesus from Patmos after the death of Domitian.
Also, nothing which Clement of Alexandria says regarding the apostle John subsequent to John's return to Ephesus from Patmos requires that John was not an old man. An old man could say: "let a horse be brought me, and let some one be my guide on the way" (Salvation of the Rich Man, 42:3b). And after John is subsequently captured by some brigands and no doubt forced to dismount, Clement refers to John "forgetting his age" in trying to pursue their chief, and quotes John as saying: "Why, my son, dost thou flee from me, thy father, unarmed, old? Son, pity me" (Salvation of the Rich Man, 42:3c). Then Clement again refers to John as "the old man" (Salvation of the Rich Man, 42:4).
--
*Revelation 1:3 / *Rev. 1:3 -
(Re: *Keeping/*Obeying Revelation)
The original Greek word (tereo: G5083) translated as "keep" in Revelation 1:3 can be used in the sense of obeying commandments (John 14:15), but almost all of Revelation does not consist of commandments but of prophecies of future events (Revelation 1:1,3, Revelation 22:7), which are not things to be obeyed. For example, how would Christians obey the prophecy regarding the strange locust-like beings (Revelation 9:3-11)? Instead, tereo/keep in Revelation 1:3 and Revelation 22:7 is used in the sense of holding onto something precious (John 12:7, John 2:10b, John 17:11-12,15, Ephesians 4:3) instead of casting it away as worthless. Christians are to keep/hold onto all of the book of Revelation as being the precious truth from Jesus Christ to the Church (Revelation 1:1, Revelation 22:16), just as Christians are to keep/hold onto Christian faith itself (2 Timothy 4:7b) even during the worst time for the Church during the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).
--
*Revelation 1:4 / *Rev. 1:4 -
(Seven Spirits)
See Revelation 4:5 below.
--
*Revelation 1:5b / *Rev. 1:5b -
(Re: OSAS?)
See Hebrews 10:26 above.
--
*Revelation 1:6 / *Rev. 1:6 -
Whereas Christians are kings and priests now (Revelation 1:6; 1 Peter 2:9) and are in the Kingdom of God's spiritual aspect now (Romans 14:17), they are not yet in the Kingdom of God's physical aspect (Luke 22:30, Matthew 19:28) which will be on the earth during the future Millennium (of Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29).
(See also paragraphs 3-5 of Acts 1:6 above)
--
*Revelation 1:7 / *Rev. 1:7 -
This will not happen until after the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:11-21). Revelation 1:7 means that Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming will not be invisible, secret or local, but will be obvious to everyone at the same time (Matthew 24:26-31, Revelation 19:11-21).
Everyone will literally see with their own eyes Jesus Christ's Second Coming in literal clouds (Revelation 1:7, Matthew 24:30), just as Jesus' apostles literally saw His ascension into a literal cloud at the end of His first coming (Acts 1:9-11).
(See Acts 1:11 above)
~
(They also which pierced him)
Revelation 1:7, like Matthew 26:64 and Mark 14:62... (See "does not mean" under Matthew 26:64 above)
~
(Earth)
In Revelation 1:7, as in Matthew 24:30, the original Greek word (ge: G1093) translated as "earth" can refer to the planet (Revelation 14:7, Revelation 21:1, Matthew 6:10, Matthew 28:18).
--
*Revelation 1:9 / *Rev. 1:9 -
Here, "the" tribulation in the original Greek is the general tribulation which the Church has experienced from its beginning (Acts 14:22, John 16:33). There is also the still-future, unprecedented Tribulation (Matthew 24:21-22) of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 which the Church will experience just-preceding Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6). Also, the various trials which individual Christians undergo, including currently, can be referred to as plural "tribulations" (Romans 5:3, Ephesians 3:13; 2 Thessalonians 1:4).
~
Revelation 1:9-10 happened in the first century AD when the apostle John was on the island of Patmos and saw a vision of Jesus Christ.
--
*Revelation 1:10 / *Rev. 1:10 -
This means that the apostle John was in God's Holy Spirit on the first day of the week, which is now commonly called Sunday. For after the Lord Jesus Christ rose physically from the dead on the first day of the week (Mark 16:9), the early Church referred to the first day of the week as the Lord's day: "no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him" (The Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians, chapter 9. Ignatius was a contemporary of John).
So Revelation 1:10 is speaking of Sunday: the apostle John was in God's Holy Spirit on a Sunday in the first century AD when he heard behind him a great voice.
~
(Re: Will you find that in the Bible?)
No, but you will find it in the writings of Ignatius, the apostle John's contemporary in the early Church. Also, you will not find in the Bible anything which contradicts that the early Church referred to the first day of the week as the Lord's day.
(Re: *Choinix)
There are some verses in the Bible for which, in order to for us to understand them properly today, we need to recover common, extra-Biblical knowledge which people back in Bible times already had without the Bible having to give it to them.
For example, when Revelation 6:6 says: "A measure of wheat for a penny", the original Greek says a "choinix" (G5518) of wheat for a "denarion" (G1220). But the Bible does not explain how big a measure a choinix is or how much money a denarion is. For back when Revelation 6:6 was written, those who knew Greek already knew how big a measure a choinix is and how much money a denarion is. But today we need to go to extra-Biblical sources to recover the knowledge that a denarion is a day's wages and a choinix is probably about a quart (which is how the 1984 NIV translated "choinix"). So Revelation 6:6 is saying that food will be so expensive that people will have to work an entire day just to be able to buy a quart of wheat (think of a loaf of bread). But without going to extra-Biblical sources to properly understand Revelation 6:6, Christians today could read the KJV of that verse and go away with completely the wrong idea: that food will be so inexpensive that people will be able buy a loaf of bread for just a penny.
(Re: 666)
Just as the translators of the words of the Greek scriptures into English had to learn from extra-Biblical sources what those Greek words meant before they could translate them into English, so translators of Revelation 13:18 in the original Greek Textus Receptus had to learn from extra-Biblical sources that the last three Greek letters in that verse stand for three different numbers, according to the rules of gematria, and that those numbers have to be added together, again according to the rules of gematria, before the translators could properly translate those three different Greek letters into the number six hundred and sixty-six.
(See the "Wisdom" section of Revelation 13:18 below)
~
(Re: Have you "left your first love" by going outside of the Bible's own "words of eternal life"?)
Note that Revelation 2:4's and John 6:68's original Greek does not use any of the English words which you just quoted, nor do those Bible verses or any other Bible verses explain to someone who does not know Greek what the original Greek words in those verses mean.
~
(Re: What is Revelation about if not the Day of the Lord?)
Revelation is about many different things, not just the Day of the Lord. For Revelation is about things concerning seven, literal, first century AD local church congregations in seven cities in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11, Revelation chapters 2-3). And Revelation is about things which the apostle John saw in heaven (Revelation chapters 4-5), and other things which will occur on the earth during the future Tribulation (Revelation chapters 6 to 18), and other things which will occur at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming and during the subsequent Millennium (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6), and other things which will occur sometime after the future Millennium (Revelation 20:7 to 21:8). It is only Revelation chapters 19-20 which are about the Day of the Lord which will begin at the Lord Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (1 Corinthians 1:7-8; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10) and will be like a 1,000-year "day" (2 Peter 3:8).
(See also 2 Thessalonians 2:2 above)
~
(Re: Is the trumpet in Revelation 1:10 either the future Tribulation's seventh trumpet or the subsequent Second Coming trumpet?)
No, it is neither, for Revelation 1:10b simply means that the apostle John heard a literal voice behind him which sounded only "like" a trumpet. And the next verse shows that this voice was Jesus Christ's, telling John to write down what he would see and send it to seven, literal, first century AD local church congregations in seven cities in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11), which is today western Turkey.
It is not until Revelation 11:15, long after Revelation 1:10, that the apostle John sees an angel sound the seventh trumpet during the Tribulation. Also, in Revelation 11:15 the seventh angel is not speaking but literally sounding a trumpet which had been given to him years earlier, after Jesus Christ had opened the Tribulation's seventh seal (Revelation 8:1-2).
The literal, Second Coming trumpet (1 Thessalonians 4:15-16; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,52) will not be blown until immediately after the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31).
(See also the "last trump" section of 1 Thessalonians 4:16 above, and see the "Chronological" section of Revelation chapters 6 to 22 (Overview) below)
--
*Revelation 1:11 / *Rev. 1:11 -
(Re: Did the apostle Paul visit and mention in his epistles every church in Revelation 1:11 which existed in his time, meaning that some of them did not exist in his time?)
Note that nothing requires that, for Colossians 2:1 means that the apostle Paul had not visited every church in the world which existed in his time. And Colossians 2:1 could mean that Paul had not even visited the churches in Colosse and Laodicea even though he wrote letters to both (Colossians 4:16). Also, the letter which Paul wrote to the church in Laodicea (Colossians 4:16) did not survive to make it into the New Testament. So Paul could have written other letters to all seven of the church congregations in Revelation 1:11, but only the letter to one of them could have survived to make it into the New Testament as the book/epistle of Ephesians.
(Compare also 1 Corinthians 5:9 above)
--
*Revelation 1:12b / *Rev. 1:12b -
(*Candlesticks)
Revelation 1:12's seven candlesticks which Jesus Christ was standing among at the time of the apostle John (Revelation 1:13) represented seven, literal, first century AD local church congregations in seven cities in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:20b, Revelation 1:11b), which is today western Turkey.
There is no connection between these seven candlesticks and the imagery much later of the two candlesticks of the two individual-man witnesses who will prophesy during the latter half of the future Tribulation (Revelation 11:3-12), just as, for example, there is no connection of (actual) identity between the lamb imagery in Revelation 5:6 and the lamb imagery in Revelation 13:11.
That is, just because a symbol represents one thing in one verse in the Bible does not mean that it has to represent that same thing in every other verse in the Bible. For example, while a lion represents Satan in 1 Peter 5:8, a lion represents Jesus Christ in Revelation 5:5.
(See also the "Candlesticks" section of Revelation 1:20 below, and see Revelation 11:3 below)
--
*Revelation 1:14–18 / *Rev. 1:14 -
(Re: Means that Jesus is not in the flesh?)
See section 3 of 1 John 3:2-3 above.
--
*Revelation 1:16 / *Rev. 1:16 -
(Stars)
See Revelation 1:20 below.
~
(Sword)
See Revelation 19:15 below.
--
*Revelation 1:19 / *Rev. 1:19 -
The "things which shall be hereafter" (Revelation 1:19) include all of the "things which must be hereafter" (Revelation 4:1b), that is, all of the still-future events of Revelation chapters 6 to 22.
--
*Revelation 1:20 / *Rev. 1:20 -
(Stars / angels)
The "angels" of the seven, literal, first century AD local church congregations in seven cities in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:20, Revelation 1:11) could have been seven human messengers sent by those churches to the apostle John on the island of Patmos (Revelation 1:9). For in Revelation 1:20 the original Greek word (aggelos: G0032) translated as "angels" can refer to human "messengers" (Luke 7:24).
~
(Re: Were not there ten churches in Roman "Asia", so that the seven churches have to be symbolic?)
In what cities were the other three churches in Roman "Asia"?
Also, the seven churches can be literally seven because they can be the only churches in Roman "Asia" (which is today western Turkey) which sent messengers to the apostle John on the island of Patmos, which was just off the coast of Roman "Asia".
Also, any symbolic uses of "seven" in the Bible do not require that all uses of "seven" in the Bible are symbolic. For example, just as the seven deacons in Acts 6:3-6 were literally seven people, so the seven churches in Revelation 1:11 were literally seven churches.
(See the section above)
~
(Candlesticks / churches)
The very last part of Revelation 1:20 does not require a "the" in the original Greek before "seven churches" for it to be referring to the same seven churches just mentioned earlier in Revelation 1:20 and Revelation 1:11, just as, for example, Revelation 1:13 does not require a "the" in the original Greek before "Son of man" for it to be referring to the Son of man (John 13:31).
~
(Mystery)
The mystery of Revelation 1:20 relates only to some things which the apostle John had just seen, and the mystery is explained by Jesus Christ Himself to the entire Church through John's writing it down. There are no "need-to-know" restrictions on anything written down in Revelation, for it is an unsealed book (Revelation 22:10), open for any Christian to read (or to hear read) and so be blessed (Revelation 1:3).
(See also the "Literal" section of Revelation chapters 6 to 22 (Overview) below)
--
*Revelation chapters 2-3 / *Rev. chs. 2-3 -
The seven letters to seven churches in Revelation chapters 2-3 were sent to seven, literal, first century AD local church congregations in seven cities in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11), which is today western Turkey.
Similarly, the letters of the New Testament books of Romans, 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 Thessalonians and 2 Thessalonians were sent to literal, first century AD local church congregations in seven places in the Roman empire.
And just as nothing requires that this latter set of letters addresses "seven church ages", so nothing requires (as is sometimes claimed) that the former set does.
Also, the entire Bible is profitable for Christians (2 Timothy 3:16), so they can learn lessons for their own lives today by reading all of these letters.
~
(Re: Do not the chapters have a chiastic structure, so that they must be symbolic?)
How has it been shown that something with a chiastic structure must be symbolic?
For example, what would require a sentence like: "To go forth I dare not, yet I fear to sit still", with the chiastic structure of action-thought-thought-action, would have to refer to something symbolic?
~
(Re: Are not the first and last churches in the most danger, the second and second-to-last churches praised, and the middling churches middling?)
How has that been shown?
For example, how is the first church addressed in Revelation chapters 2-3, the church in Ephesus (Revelation 2:1-6), necessarily in any more danger spiritually than the fifth church addressed, in Sardis (Revelation 3:1-3)?
Also, the second church and the second-to-last church addressed are not the only ones praised. For example, the first church addressed is praised in Revelation 2:2-3,6.
~
(Re: Are Revelation chapters 2-3 just John's musings to some ancient Jews?)
No, for the author of the book of Revelation (also called the Apocalypse) is God the Father, who gave it to Jesus Christ to give to the Church through an angel and the apostle John (Revelation 1:1-2, Revelation 22:16).
The person in authority who is addressing the seven churches of Revelation 1:11, in the letters of Revelation chapters 2-3, is Jesus Christ Himself, not the apostle John. And in everything which John says to the churches in Revelation 1, he always refers to God the Father and/or to Jesus Christ and/or to the Holy Spirit (Revelation 1:4-7,9-10), never to his own authority as an apostle. For this is not his book. He is simply its amanuensis (Revelation 1:19,2).
In each of the seven cities mentioned by name in Revelation 1:11b, a New Covenant church (ekklesia) existed at the time that the book of Revelation was written down in 95 AD (Irenaeus, Against Heresies 5:30:3c). That is why Revelation 1:11 refers to "the seven churches" (ekklesia) and why each of the seven letters in Revelation chapters 2-3 is addressed to "the church" (ekklesia) in one of those seven cities (Revelation 2:1,8,12,18, Revelation 3:1,7,14), which word (ekklesia) would apply to any New Covenant congregation regardless of whether those churches contained Jewish Christians (cf. 1 Thessalonians 2:14, Galatians 1:22, Acts 9:31) or Gentile Christians (cf. Romans 16:4) or any mixture thereof (cf. Acts 6:1, Acts 11:20-26). For there are no Christians outside of the Church (1 Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 4:4-5, Ephesians 1:22-23).
Revelation chapters 1-3 do not say or require that the seven, first century AD local church congregations in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11) consisted entirely of Jewish Christians instead of a mixture of both Jewish and Gentile Christians. For the passage about the "one new man" in Ephesians 2:15b is addressed to Gentile Christians in Ephesus (Ephesians 2:11), and Ephesus was one of the seven, first century AD local church congregations in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11).
(See also Ephesians 2:12 above, and the "enmity" section of Ephesians 2:15 above)
--
*Revelation 2:2 / *Rev. 2:2 -
The false apostles in Ephesus (Revelation 2:1-2) were the "wolves" which Paul the true apostle had foretold the Christians of Ephesus about (Acts 20:17,29-30). Paul was martyred for Jesus Christ in Rome about 62 AD, whereas Jesus had the letter of Revelation 2:1-8 sent to the Christians of Ephesus about 95 AD. For Revelation was written down toward the end of Domitian's reign (Irenaeus, Against Heresies 5:30:3c).
--
*Revelation 2:5 / *Rev. 2:5 -
(Re: Jesus coming)
See Revelation 3:3 below.
--
*Revelation 2:6 / *Rev. 2:6 -
(Nicolaitans)
See Revelation 2:15 below.
-
Next entry / Prior / Table of Contents
Dec 26, 2018
