Zimmerman's biggest mistake.

[bhsmte]

Are you suggesting that Martin chose the first person he found who pulled their car over to watch his movements, lured him into an ally to pummel him simply because that is what a thug does?

I doubt that is the case, but it is possible. It is basically the same argument people are making about Zimmerman, that he profiled Martin. Except, Zimmerman's background gives no clue (at all) of racism. So, why not the other way around as an alternative? If their is a civil case, Martin's background will become open season, as will Zimmerman's, to give clues as to who would be more likely to use violence and or profile.

 

[lordbt]

In hindsight yes, but unfortunately, none of us can act in the moment, with that benefit.

If Zimmerman felt Martin was going to attack him, I don't think he gets out of his car, because he lost him. Also, it is pretty clear, Martin's biggest mistake was using violence.

And of all the mistakes made that night, that was the biggest.

 

[bhsmte]

Are you suggesting that Martin chose the first person he found who pulled their car over to watch his movements, lured him into an ally to pummel him simply because that is what a thug does?

It didn't have to be that he chose the first person, no. Zimmerman observed him because Martin looked suspicious and Martin came towards Zimmerman to check him out. It is feasible that he saw that Zimmerman could be white and he said; "I'll teach this guy a lesson".

Certainly, it is just as feasible if not more so, than what people are claiming about Zimmerman.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Are you suggesting that Martin chose the first person he found who pulled their car over to watch his movements, lured him into an ally to pummel him simply because that is what a thug does?

When Rachael Jeantel strongly suggested that Zimmerman was a 'rapist' Trayvon's thoughts went from cracka, a person of authority that he felt no reason to run from (as pleaded by Jeantel) to (at Jeantel's equally strong suggestion) rapist.

Having accepted this suggestion Trayvon did run, around the corner and out of sight of Zimmerman. It is clear that he secluded himself and observed Zimmerman walking (not chasing) around the same corner several minute later (looking for an address to relay to the police). It was at this point that Trayvon 'profiled' Zimmerman as a sexual predator; 'rapist', as per Jeantel's suggestion.

Zimmerman is a bit overweight, not imposing physically, slightly effeminate in appearance and movement (or at least not traditionally 'masculine'), and creepy looking (that night at least). Also not a person to be feared as would be a true 'cracka'.

Whether or not Jeantel also intimated a threat to Trayvon's 'little brother' by the 'rapist' Zimmerman is uncertain, but Trayvon may have included this in any imagined threat to himself, or may have considered it the primary threat.

Seeing that Zimmerman posed no realistic physical threat to himself Trayvon revealed himself to Zimmerman and after a brief exchange violently assaulted him.

 

[KWCrazy]

It has been argued ad nauseum that he did not chase anyone.

Goodness, I thought you had a fondness for facts. I guess I was wrong.

AMEN!!!!

So many people are basing their posts on straight up lies it doesn't even seem worth responding. The fact is, what Martin did was an unprovoked felonious assault. Even if Zimmerman was following him, that is NOT grounds to sucker punch the man and try to beat him to death. Martin acted like a wild animal, and Zimmerman acted in self defense. End of story. The only way race played a factor was the lying race baiters in the media trying to make it into a race crime, which it never was, and who stirred public opinion be deliberately showing Martin as a 12 year old child.

The fact is, if someone attacked me like Zimmerman was attacked, they'd be where Martin is. People have the right to not be attacked by wild animals or people who act like them.

If Martin had simply gone inside instead of doubling back to attack a man who was only doing his job and watching out for his neighbors, nothing would have happened to him. He attacked an armed man. He paid for his criminal act.

 

[Protocol11]

His biggest mistake...




Getting out of bed that morning

 

[Bedford]

When Rachael Jeantel strongly suggested that Zimmerman was a 'rapist' Trayvon's thoughts went from cracka, a person of authority that he felt no reason to run from (as pleaded by Jeantel) to (at Jeantel's equally strong suggestion) rapist.

Why would Martin assume that a stranger in an unmarked vehicle following and watching him is a person of authority? This is Zimmerman's mistake #2. He should have rolled down his car window and identified himself as a person of authority.

Having accepted this suggestion Trayvon did run, around the corner and out of sight of Zimmerman. It is clear that he secluded himself and observed Zimmerman walking (not chasing) around the same corner several minute later (looking for an address to relay to the police). It was at this point that Trayvon 'profiled' Zimmerman as a sexual predator; 'rapist', as per Jeantel's suggestion.

Listening to the audio, it is clear that the moment Zimmerman said Martin was running, Zimmerman immediately exited his vehicle and proceeded to chase Martin. He stopped with the fast pace pursuit after he was told that he did not need to follow,and started walking and looking for Martin. What do you do when a stranger is following you in the dark?

Zimmerman is a bit overweight, not imposing physically, slightly effeminate in appearance and movement (or at least not traditionally 'masculine'), and creepy looking (that night at least). Also not a person to be feared as would be a true 'cracka'.

This makes absolutely no sense.

Whether or not Jeantel also intimated a threat to Trayvon's 'little brother' by the 'rapist' Zimmerman is uncertain, but Trayvon may have included this in any imagined threat to himself, or may have considered it the primary threat.

Seeing that Zimmerman posed no realistic physical threat to himself Trayvon revealed himself to Zimmerman and after a brief exchange violently assaulted him.

Speculate and imagine all you want about Martin's frame of mind as to why you BELIEVE Martin was the aggressor, when the only fact relevant is that Zimmerman was following and looking for Martin. Most teenagers would try to run and hide from strangers following them in the dark, and I suspect many of those kids fear the worst.

Zimmerman had the power to control the situation, and time after time he failed. Zimmerman had an obligation, as watch Captain, to do the right thing. He blew it.

 

[bsd31]

More accurately, it covers 'a fear of great bodily harm'. While this element is vague, I believe it is justifiably so. No one, in the moment of eminent danger has the capacity to make assessments about what might possibly be the consequences of another attacking them.

In the Martin case, being beaten with fists and having one's head forced into pavement was, I submit, a pretty good indication that this wasn't some petty schoolyard bravado. He had good cause to pull the trigger.

Good point. And honestly (other than doing nothing wrong) I believe that's why Zimmerman won the judgement. Another person can not rightfully say if you have a right or not to fear great bodily harm in a given situation. Every person is different.

 

[TheQuietRiot]

I'm guessing the person that robbed you was black. Blacks have another reason not to involve the police besides fear of unfair treatment. The police have a nasty habit of uncovering other things that blacks want to remain hidden. They don't want the police nosing around too much.

What a load of racist rubbish.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Most teenagers would try to run and hide from strangers following them in the dark, and I suspect many of those kids fear the worst.

Did you miss the part where Trayvon launched a violent attack against Zimmerman? And why would Trayvon suddenly run from a man who was sitting in a vehicle after telling his friend on the phone that he wouldn't run from someone he had identified as the police or security guard (exact meaning of cracka)?

Recall that twice Zimmerman said that something wasn't right about Trayvon. "He's on drugs or something", and, "There's something wrong with him." What was Trayvon's state of mind that led him to first run, and then viciously attack Zimmerman. Was his judgment impaired at that time? I'm guessing it was, possibly by habitual use of lean. (Trayvon's autopsy revealed liver damage associated with consumption of this stuff, which also can cause impaired thinking and behavior; paranoia and aggression.)

Also, Zimmerman stopped pursuing Trayvon when he rounded the corner and could not see Trayvon anywhere. He then continued to converse with the 911 dispatcher. Whether he was still ambling down the sidewalk isn't known. What is known is that Trayvon appeared and accosted him moments later.

 

[Swim411]

Did you miss the part where Trayvon launched a violent attack against Zimmerman?

You can't miss something that didn't happen.

He had a right to stand his ground.

 

[bsd31]

You can't miss something that didn't happen.

He had a right to stand his ground.

Only if Zimmerman had physically attacked him. Which obviously he did not.

A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

Zimmerman did not attack him. Did not lay a single finger on him. If he had then clearly Trayvon Martin would have been well within his right to "stand his ground"

Clearly the jury (and every thinking, cognizant human being on the planet) understands that Trayvon Martin could not have possibly reasonably believed that he needed to take physical measures to prevent great bodily harm, or death or the commission of a forcible felony.

 

[bhsmte]

You can't miss something that didn't happen.

He had a right to stand his ground.

Why did the 6 women on the jury think it happened?

 

[Swim411]

Why did the 6 women on the jury think it happened?

Apparently you don't know how juries work. Half the jury thought he was guilty, initially. But in AMERICA, one can believe someone is probably a killer, but that the evidence doesn't overcome the reasonable doubt requirement.

I am sorry you don't know how juries work. But this forum is not the ideal place to learn this kind of basic civics knowledge.

 

[Swim411]

Only if Zimmerman had physically attacked him. Which obviously he did not.

Unless you have the video, then this is comical. And physical does not require physical contact.

This is basic stuff that I am surprised you don't know.

 

[QuiltAngel]

Apparently you don't know how juries work. Half the jury thought he was guilty, initially. But in AMERICA, one can believe someone is probably a killer, but that the evidence doesn't overcome the reasonable doubt requirement.

I am sorry you don't know how juries work. But this forum is not the ideal place to learn this kind of basic civics knowledge.

It was split 50/50, then the jury asked for clarification on what needs to be present for manslaughter. After that, they went 100% not guilty of either murder 2 or manslaughter.

The one juror who has spoken stated that they all felt it was self defense.

 

[bhsmte]

Apparently you don't know how juries work. Half the jury thought he was guilty, initially. But in AMERICA, one can believe someone is probably a killer, but that the evidence doesn't overcome the reasonable doubt requirement.

I am sorry you don't know how juries work. But this forum is not the ideal place to learn this kind of basic civics knowledge.

Not unusual for a jury to be split as they open deliberations, even with evidence that is strong. I have sat on two juries and was the foreman in one, so I do know the way they work, quite well. I sat on one, were the evidence was overwhelming to acquit and 4 of the 12 jurors voted guilty on the initial vote. They did because they needed clarification on the evidence and the law and they all quickly recognized this after discussing the same with the other jurors and changed their vote.

In this case, they had the lessor of manslaughter to consider and the fact they didn't even convict on that, is telling.

 

[bhsmte]

It was split 50/50, then the jury asked for clarification on what needs to be present for manslaughter. After that, they went 100% not guilty of either murder 2 or manslaughter.

The one juror who has spoken stated that they all felt it was self defense.

That is what I heard from the 2 jurors as well.

 

[bhsmte]

Unless you have the video, then this is comical. And physical does not require physical contact.

This is basic stuff that I am surprised you don't know.

Your right, there is no absolute evidence that Martin struck first, but Zimmerman did drop his keys and flashlight at the spot he claims Martin punched him to start the confrontation.

This is where the jury took the prosecutions advice when they asked them to use common sense. They used it, along with the other evidence that helped them fill in the gaps with logic.

 

[USincognito]

I know liberals hate the idea. They would rather a person should just hand over their valuables to any who would demand them, submit to the physical assault or rape, or worse, and be grateful if one escapes with their life. But those days are soon coming to an end, as they should have long ago.

What liberal told you that? Was it this guy?