Why the Constant Attack?

[BABerean2]

My only point is that he indeed put the rapture (even though he did not use this word) before the great tribulation, not after it.

His use of the word "tribulation" does not put it before "the great tribulation" as you are claiming, any more than the word "tribulation" in 2nd Thessalonians chapter 1 would.

2Th 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Every use of the word "tribulation" in the New Testament is not related to "the Great Tribulation".

Joh_16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
Act_14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.


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[ac28]

I can see BAB2 with a huge tumbler where he reaches in and pulls out scripture at random.

 

[MWood]

Are you not grafted in?

Grafted in, as in the Body of Christ?

 

[Hank77]

Grafted in, as in the Body of Christ?

The olive tree. The root of Jesse being Christ, the branches Jew and Gentile, in Christ, are the Body of Christ. Rom. 11.

Rom 15:12 and again, Isaiah saith, `There shall be the root of Jesse, and he who is rising to rule nations--upon him shall nations hope;'

 

[BABerean2]

I can see BAB2 with a huge tumbler where he reaches in and pulls out scripture at random.

2Co 3:6 who has made us sufficient to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.


Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

(Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.)

Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.


Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.


Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

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[ac28]

BAB2, you never stop, do you? Pound, pound, pound with this heretical covenant theology (I assume) garbage. Hebrews is one of my favorite books, but I know that it is impossible that anything written in it of a dispensation nature is truth for today. If you want my attention, post scripture from Eph, Phil, Col, 1&2 Tim, Titus, or Philemon.

(1) Israel, as a nation, in God's eyes, has not existed for 2000 years.
(2) All the covenants in any book written before Acts 28:28 are to Israel (12 tribes) and those Gentile proselytes and graftees only.
(3) Therefore, there are no covenants in those pre-Acts 28:28 books that are in effect today.

Just elementary logic.

 

[BABerean2]

BAB2, you never stop, do you? Pound, pound, pound with this heretical covenant theology (I assume) garbage.

If you are referring to Reformed Covenant Theology, then the answer would be no.

They have applied the 10 commandments to Adam before the fall and claim the New Covenant is just a "new administration" of the Old Covenant.

This is why they claim we must keep the Sabbath, even though they have moved it from Sundown Friday to Sundown Saturday, until anytime Sunday.

None of this can be found in scripture.

The New Blood Covenant of Christ is not the same as the Sinai covenant of bondage, which Paul tells us to cast out in Galatians chapter 4.


What is New Covenant Theology?
Pastor Douglas Goodin

 

[Salem]

I have noticed that the Dispensationalism sub-forum is filled with attacks and attackers, including everything from denouncing the dispensational interpretation of the scriptures to false allegations about the history of the doctrine. These have often included rules-breaking flames against both the doctrine and its alleged founders.

I do not see such attacks in the Covenant Theology sub-forum, although, as I rarely bother to read the threads there, I do not know that they never happen there.

But my question is, why this one-sided attack? Why do these people find it necessary to continually attack Dispensationalism?

What I've noticed to be the primary thrust is to try and discredit literal interpretation of eschatology, the biggest enemies of dispensational teaching the likes of Preterists, Replacement Theology teachers or such as Amillennialists. They generally object, often with much anger, to the pre-tribulation rapture, sometimes reject the rapture, entirely. Dispensational teaching also gores the ox of anti-Semites who flock to Replacement Theology, who would deny the very existence of the Jew and Israel as having legitimacy, who would deny that God is not finished with Israel, Replacement Theology quite evil in its history, its fevered acceptance by cults and thinking that is in concert with the agenda of the devil speaking loudly for itself. This view of God's progressive program simply gores the ox of ancient error entire denominations have staked their doctrines on, who will never own up to their errors. It seems there are others legalistic, who try to sully grace, who don't like the teachings of Paul, denying anything changed since the Torah, rather claiming Christ came to make better Jews, in essence, only absent the sacrifices, teaching of the church age of grace and freedom from bondage of the law goring their legalistic cult oxen. But at the heart of the matter are those who adhere to their doctrines of men, who drag around various Peanuts blankets of error.

It shouldn't be left unsaid there are cults of dispensationalists these days, who have created their own errors of finding dispensations under every rock, not simply viewing the progressive program of God on a timeline that is doctrinally neutral, rather carving up the word of God into dispensational blocks that exclude truths scripture is teaching to all. There are those which are not, at all, of traditional, conservative and limited dispensational teaching, who give dispensations a very bad name.

 

[ac28]

It's very obvious that you know absolutely nothing about dispensationalism. But you continue ranting about it and showing everyone your ignorance.

 

[BABerean2]

Pastor John Otis knows a few things about Dispensationalism.

Great Errors in Dispensational Eschatology: Pastor John Otis

 

[ac28]

I watched about 1/2 of that video the last time you posted it. Possibly the most inaccurate video about dispensationalists I've ever seen.

 

[Danoh]

I watched about 1/2 of that video the last time you posted it. Possibly the most inaccurate video about dispensationalists I've ever seen.

Yep; I went through that entire video, addressed its every flaw in a post on here and he ignored it all.

 

[Biblewriter]

He is so obsessed with his "mission" to destroy Dispensationalism that he will never stop, and will never yield to any amount of proof. This is typical of a mind blinded by a Satanic lie. I have seen this pattern of behavior in evolutionists, "climate change" alarmists, "gay rights" activists, and abortion defenders, along with those teaching all kinds of false doctrines.

Those who are defending the truth also sometimes make mistakes. But when an argument they make is disproved, they stop making it and try a different argument.

 

[BABerean2]

He is so obsessed with his "mission" to destroy Dispensationalism that he will never stop, and will never yield to any amount of proof. This is typical of a mind blinded by a Satanic lie. I have seen this pattern of behavior in evolutionists, "climate change" alarmists, "gay rights" activists, and abortion defenders, along with those teaching all kinds of false doctrines.

Those who are defending the truth also sometimes make mistakes. But when an argument they make is disproved, they stop making it and try a different argument.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:


Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.


Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.


Joh 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.



Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.


Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?



Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.



Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.



Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,



Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

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[Biblewriter]

Dispensationalists believe EVERY scripture. Simply posting scriptures that someone interprets to have a certain meaning is meaningless, when they are posted without comment about the imagined meanings of the scriptures posted. In this case, the poster who continues to do this assumes these scriptures mean something that they never explicitly state, while denying that other scriptures do not mean what they do explicitly state.

So who is correctly interpreting scripture, the ones who interpret some scriptures to say things they do not say, and that other scriptures do not mean what they say, or the ones who interpret all scriptures to actually mean what they say?

 

[BABerean2]

Dispensationalists believe EVERY scripture.

Really...

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

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[Job8]

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

When we harmonize both Testaments, we find that the Abrahamic Covenant has three *seeds*:

1. Christ
2. All believers (the Church)
3. The descendants of Jacob (the twelve tribes)

 

[Biblewriter]

Really...

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

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Yes, really. We believe this absolutely. In the scriptures the Holy Spirit was referring to here, the seed He meant was Christ. And NO Dispensationalist doubts this. for the scriptures plainly declare it. But the fact that THIS was a reference to the one great seed, which was Christ, does not so much as even imply that Christ was the ONLY seed the Holy Spirit was referring to in EVERY place where He mentioned "the seed" of Abraham.

This is what is wrong with your approach. You are using YOUR INTERPRETATION of the MEANINGS of a relatively small number of scriptures as an excuse to deny the EXPLICIT STATEMENTS of a very much larger number of other scriptures, which are just as inspired as the scriptures that YOU INTERPRET to mean that these other scriptures could not even possibly mean what they EXPLICITLY say.

 

[BABerean2]

Yes, really. We believe this absolutely. In the scriptures the Holy Spirit was referring to here, the seed He meant was Christ. And NO Dispensationalist doubts this. for the scriptures plainly declare it. But the fact that THIS was a reference to the one great seed, which was Christ, does not so much as even imply that Christ was the ONLY seed the Holy Spirit was referring to in EVERY place where He mentioned "the seed" of Abraham.

This is what is wrong with your approach. You are using YOUR INTERPRETATION of the MEANINGS of a relatively small number of scriptures as an excuse to deny the EXPLICIT STATEMENTS of a very much larger number of other scriptures, which are just as inspired as the scriptures that YOU INTERPRET to mean that these other scriptures could not even possibly mean what they EXPLICITLY say.

Dispensationalists claim to take the text "literally" until they come to a passage that destroys their doctrine and then they claim others are not "INTERPRETING the MEANING" correctly.


They must be assuming that others cannot read the English language.

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. (KJV)

Gal 3:16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, "And to offsprings," referring to many, but referring to one, "And to your offspring," who is Christ. (ESV)

Gal 3:16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his descendant. Scripture doesn't say, "descendants," referring to many, but "your descendant," referring to one. That descendant is Christ. (GW)



Somehow they can claim the promises made to Abraham were made to more than One Seed and also claim this is the plain meaning of the passage...

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[Biblewriter]

If the promises referred to in this scripture were the only promises made to Abraham, you would have a point. But other promises were made to Abraham, and further promises were made to Isaac and Jacob. Then later, yet more promises were made to "the children (plural) of Israel," and after that, to Ephraim and to Judah. These promises must of a certainty be kept, or the God that made them either lied or lacked the power to keep them.