Why the Constant Attack?

[MWood]

All but the first sentence of your quote above is correct.

However, your first sentence stands in direct conflict with what is plainly written in the text.

Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

The author of Hebrews says the New Covenant was in the present tense during the first century.
Therefore, it is not waiting on a future fulfillment.

Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
.

The scriptures here say the same thing that I have been saying all along. Heb.8:6 is saying that Jesus is the mediator of the Blood covenant of Mat. and this covenant has better promises than the Old Covenant. Heb. 12:24 is the same, speaking of the Blood Covenant of Mat. You are just applying these verses to the Covenant of Jer.31.

 

[BABerean2]

The scriptures here say the same thing that I have been saying all along. Heb.8:6 is saying that Jesus is the mediator of the Blood covenant of Mat. and this covenant has better promises than the Old Covenant. Heb. 12:24 is the same, speaking of the Blood Covenant of Mat. You are just applying these verses to the Covenant of Jer.31.

"You are just applying these verses to the Covenant of Jer.31."

Really...

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


Are you attempting to claim that the writer of Hebrews chapter 8 is not referring to Jeremiah chapter 31?

Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

 

[MWood]

"You are just applying these verses to the Covenant of Jer.31."

Really...

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


Are you attempting to claim that the writer of Hebrews chapter 8 is not referring to Jeremiah chapter 31?

Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Really??? Is that what I really said? Really??

 

[BABerean2]

Heb.8:6 is a covenant that will be fulfilled in the future. Heb.8:6 is the same Covenant as Jer.31. Place two bibles side by side and open one to Jer.31 and the other to Heb.8. They are ALMOST word for word.

,
I will have to say I was wrong about what you said in the past, based on what you posted above.

Please forgive me for the mistake. I am made of rotten flesh and prone to error.

However, you do seem to be saying the New Covenant it is not in effect now, since you are saying it will be fulfilled in the future.

Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Is the New Covenant now in effect, based on Hebrews 8:6?

.

 

[MWood]

,
I will have to say I was wrong about what you said in the past, based on what you posted above.

Please forgive me for the mistake. I am made of rotten flesh and prone to error.

However, you do seem to be saying the New Covenant it is not in effect now, since you are saying it will be fulfilled in the future.

Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Is the New Covenant now in effect, based on Hebrews 8:6?

.

No. Heb.8:6 is the Jer.31 Covenant. The writer of Heb. is reminding his readers of this Jer.31 Covenant. The New Covenant that we are under now is the Blood Covenant that Jesus was speaking of in Mat. Remember, when Jesus shed His Blood on the Cross, this Blood provided many things for us in this age of Grace. This Blood is the body and content of this New Covenant. To understand the complete body and content of the Blood Covenant, you need to read and understand all the epistles of Paul. Nowhere in all of the Bible will you find this info except in Pauls' writing.

 

[BABerean2]

No. Heb.8:6 is the Jer.31 Covenant. The writer of Heb. is reminding his readers of this Jer.31 Covenant. The New Covenant that we are under now is the Blood Covenant that Jesus was speaking of in Mat. Remember, when Jesus shed His Blood on the Cross, this Blood provided many things for us in this age of Grace. This Blood is the body and content of this New Covenant. To understand the complete body and content of the Blood Covenant, you need to read and understand all the epistles of Paul. Nowhere in all of the Bible will you find this info except in Pauls' writing.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.


So, are you saying Christ did not confirm the New Covenant found in the Book of Jeremiah and the Book of Hebrews?
.

 

[MWood]

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.


So, are you saying Christ did not confirm the New Covenant found in the Book of Jeremiah and the Book of Hebrews?
.

That's right.

 

[BABerean2]

That's right.

Then who is going to confirm this other New Covenant you have come up with?
.

 

[FreeinChrist]

MOD HAT

This thread had a small clean up.

As a reminder to those who are reading, this is a forum that is Christian only. Folks, if you see a post that is a violation, please just report it and do not respond. ​

 

[MWood]

Then who is going to confirm this other New Covenant you have come up with?
.

Didn't Jesus speak the words of Mat. 26:28? Is that enough confirmation for you?

 

[BABerean2]

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.


So, are you saying Christ did not confirm the New Covenant found in the Book of Jeremiah and the Book of Hebrews?

My Question for MWood...

"So, are you saying Christ did not confirm the New Covenant found in the Book of Jeremiah and the Book of Hebrews?"


Reply from MWood...

"That's right."

My Question...

"Then who is going to confirm this other New Covenant you have come up with?"

Reply from MWood...

Didn't Jesus speak the words of Mat. 26:28? Is that enough confirmation for you?

....................................................

I am having a tough time following this line of logic on two separate New Covenants.

Who is the mediator of the Covenant found in Hebrews 8:6, if it is not Christ?

.

 

[ac28]

The New Covenant is for all of Israel (12 tribes) only, is future, and is totally involved in Israel being much more easily able to keep the law, which will be written in their hearts. Jeremiah 31:31-34

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

 

[BABerean2]

The New Covenant is for all of Israel (12 tribes) only, is future, and is totally involved in Israel being much more able to keep the law. Jeremiah 31:31-34

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

The writer of the Book of Hebrews does not agree with you.

Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. (Present tense in the first century.)

Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.




Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

.

 

[MWood]

The writer of the Book of Hebrews does not agree with you.

Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. (Present tense in the first century.)

Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.




Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

.

Can't you see that Heb.10-12 is the exact same wording as Jer.31? We are not under this Covenant. Are we not always having to remind our neighbors and our brothers to know the Lord? If this New Covenant was written in our minds and on our hearts we wouldn't have to remind anyone to know the Lord. For they would all know Him. The Covenant that we are under now is the Blood Covenant that Jesus was speaking of in Mat.26.

The Covenant of Jer.31 and Heb.6 specifically states that this Covenant is to Israel and Judah. No one else. Just Israel and Judah.

 

[BABerean2]

The Covenant of Jer.31 and Heb.6 specifically states that this Covenant is to Israel and Judah. No one else. Just Israel and Judah.

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:


The words of Peter on the day of Pentecost do not agree with you...

Who were the first people who became members of the New Covenant ?


Act 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
(Note the reference to “men of Judea” and “house of Israel” and compare to Jer. 31:33.)

Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

About 3,000 Israelites from Judea and the House of Israel accepted the New Blood Covenant from Jeremiah chapter 31, on the Day of Pentecost.

.

 

[ac28]

BAB2,

I've read many of your posts and, never, not once, have I ever been able to figure out what point you're trying to make. So:

What point are you trying to make? Some detail would help.

I am an Acts 28:28 Dispensationalist. If someone were to ask what you are, how would you answer? Please don't say a Bible believer, because we all fit in that category.

 

[MWood]

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:


The words of Peter on the day of Pentecost do not agree with you...

Who were the first people who became members of the New Covenant ?


Act 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
(Note the reference to “men of Judea” and “house of Israel” and compare to Jer. 31:33.)

Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

About 3,000 Israelites from Judea and the House of Israel accepted the New Blood Covenant from Jeremiah chapter 31, on the Day of Pentecost.

.

Never mind BA. Like the young'uns say.....what ever.

 

[BABerean2]

BAB2,

I've read many of your posts and, never, not once, have I ever been able to figure out what point you're trying to make. So:

What point are you trying to make? Some detail would help.

I am an Acts 28:28 Dispensationalist. If someone were to ask what you are, how would you answer? Please don't say a Bible believer, because we all fit in that category.

Genesis of Dispensational Theology

 

[Job8]

Can't you see that Heb.10-12 is the exact same wording as Jer.31? We are not under this Covenant.

I believe we need to tread carefully here. At the Last Supper, the Lord specifically said "this is my blood of the New Testament (Covenant), which is shed for many for the remission of sins" (Mt 26:28). The day Christ died and shed His blood, the New Covenant came into effect. But some of the prophecies pertaining to the New Covenant are yet to be fulfilled in redeemed and restored Israel. At present the Church is under the New Covenant, and Gentiles are definitely included.

 

[MWood]

I believe we need to tread carefully here. At the Last Supper, the Lord specifically said "this is my blood of the New Testament (Covenant), which is shed for many for the remission of sins" (Mt 26:28). The day Christ died and shed His blood, the New Covenant came into effect. But some of the prophecies pertaining to the New Covenant are yet to be fulfilled in redeemed and restored Israel. At present the Church is under the New Covenant, and Gentiles are definitely included.

The Covenant that Jesus was speaking of at The Last Supper is the New Covenant of His Blood. This Covenant is not the Covenant of Jer.31 or the Covenant of Heb.6. Both Jer.31 and Heb.6 are the same Covenant, and will be given to Israel and Judah at the 1000 year reign.