Why Hillary Clinton Doesn’t Deserve the Black Vote

pakicetus

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2015
1,510
1,878
✟89,017.00
Country
Faroe Islands
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
The issue goes well beyond why the black community continues to support Hillary Clinton. The question is why the black community continues to support a party which has proven conclusively its only concern is to perpetuate a victim class and keep blacks in perpetuity right where they are.
Are you willing to listen to black people who prefer the Democratic Party (like me)? We have some extremely good reasons beyond "wanting free stuff" (which is by far the most common reason Republicans think we vote Democrat). I see a lot of Republicans who want to tell us why our Democratic leanings are unwise (and there's nothing wrong with that), but very few Republicans who actually want to listen to us to discern what they might be missing.

Incidentally, the Democratic Party has the same problem with poor Southern whites. I've seen Democrats assume (for no good reason) that poor Southern whites tend to vote Republican because they're racist or stupid, which is presumptuous.
 
Upvote 0

mark46

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 29, 2010
20,066
4,740
✟839,713.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
Sanders is ALSO a democrat, soooooooo..........again just what has HRC done to deserve the black vote?
Bernie Sanders is NOT a Democrat. He may be a democratic socialist, but he is a registered Independent.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JustOneWay
Upvote 0

mark46

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 29, 2010
20,066
4,740
✟839,713.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
http://www.thenation.com/article/hillary-clinton-does-not-deserve-black-peoples-votes/

.............Black voters have been remarkably loyal to the Clintons for more than 25 years. It’s true that we eventually lined up behind Barack Obama in 2008, but it’s a measure of the Clinton allure that Hillary led Obama among black voters until he started winning caucuses and primaries. Now Hillary is running again. This time she’s facing a democratic socialist who promises a political revolution that will bring universal healthcare, a living wage, an end to rampant Wall Street greed, and the dismantling of the vast prison state—many of the same goals that Martin Luther King Jr. championed at the end of his life. Even so, black folks are sticking with the Clinton brand.

What have the Clintons done to earn such devotion? Did they take extreme political risks to defend the rights of African Americans? Did they courageously stand up to right-wing demagoguery about black communities? Did they help usher in a new era of hope and prosperity for neighborhoods devastated by deindustrialization, globalization, and the disappearance of work?

No. Quite the opposite.

* * *

When Bill Clinton ran for president in 1992, urban black communities across America were suffering from economic collapse. Hundreds of thousands of manufacturing jobs had vanished as factories moved overseas in search of cheaper labor, a new plantation. Globalization and deindustrialization affected workers of all colors but hit African Americans particularly hard. Unemployment rates among young black men had quadrupled as the rate of industrial employment plummeted. Crime rates spiked in inner-city communities that had been dependent on factory jobs, while hopelessness, despair, and crack addiction swept neighborhoods that had once been solidly working-class. Millions of black folks—many of whom had fled Jim Crow segregation in the South with the hope of obtaining decent work in Northern factories—were suddenly trapped in racially segregated, jobless ghettos. ....................................
 
Upvote 0
Aug 29, 2005
33,645
10,917
✟183,770.00
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Private
Are you willing to listen to black people who prefer the Democratic Party (like me)? We have some extremely good reasons beyond "wanting free stuff" (which is by far the most common reason Republicans think we vote Democrat). I see a lot of Republicans who want to tell us why our Democratic leanings are unwise (and there's nothing wrong with that), but very few Republicans who actually want to listen to us to discern what they might be missing.

Incidentally, the Democratic Party has the same problem with poor Southern whites. I've seen Democrats assume (for no good reason) that poor Southern whites tend to vote Republican because they're racist or stupid, which is presumptuous.
I don't think that some understand that when they accuse the democrats of exploiting blacks, usually to keep them on the plantation, that they really are insulting blacks by saying they are either misinformed, ignorant or too weak to stand up to the exploitation.
 
Upvote 0

Widlast

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2016
837
653
63
Eastern USA
✟35,523.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Are you willing to listen to black people who prefer the Democratic Party (like me)? We have some extremely good reasons beyond "wanting free stuff" (which is by far the most common reason Republicans think we vote Democrat). I see a lot of Republicans who want to tell us why our Democratic leanings are unwise (and there's nothing wrong with that), but very few Republicans who actually want to listen to us to discern what they might be missing.

Incidentally, the Democratic Party has the same problem with poor Southern whites. I've seen Democrats assume (for no good reason) that poor Southern whites tend to vote Republican because they're racist or stupid, which is presumptuous.

All the "poor Southern Whites" I've known (and that's quite a few) are die hard Democrats. Republican notions don't sell well in areas without banking and heavy industry as influences. To be a conservative Republican implies you have something you'd like to conserve. The poor (black or white) tend to have little to nothing and want to have someone tell them they'll be taken care of (even if it is all lies).
 
Upvote 0

Sistrin

We are such stuff as dreams are made on...
Site Supporter
Jun 9, 2012
6,488
3,399
Location Location Location
✟197,980.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Are you willing to listen to black people who prefer the Democratic Party (like me)? We have some extremely good reasons...

Fine, you have the floor.
 
Upvote 0

mark46

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 29, 2010
20,066
4,740
✟839,713.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
http://www.thenation.com/article/hillary-clinton-does-not-deserve-black-peoples-votes/

.............Black voters have been remarkably loyal to the Clintons for more than 25 years. It’s true that we eventually lined up behind Barack Obama in 2008, but it’s a measure of the Clinton allure that Hillary led Obama among black voters until he started winning caucuses and primaries. Now Hillary is running again. This time she’s facing a democratic socialist who promises a political revolution that will bring universal healthcare, a living wage, an end to rampant Wall Street greed, and the dismantling of the vast prison state—many of the same goals that Martin Luther King Jr. championed at the end of his life. Even so, black folks are sticking with the Clinton brand.

What have the Clintons done to earn such devotion? Did they take extreme political risks to defend the rights of African Americans? Did they courageously stand up to right-wing demagoguery about black communities? Did they help usher in a new era of hope and prosperity for neighborhoods devastated by deindustrialization, globalization, and the disappearance of work?

No. Quite the opposite.

* * *

When Bill Clinton ran for president in 1992, urban black communities across America were suffering from economic collapse. Hundreds of thousands of manufacturing jobs had vanished as factories moved overseas in search of cheaper labor, a new plantation. Globalization and deindustrialization affected workers of all colors but hit African Americans particularly hard. Unemployment rates among young black men had quadrupled as the rate of industrial employment plummeted. Crime rates spiked in inner-city communities that had been dependent on factory jobs, while hopelessness, despair, and crack addiction swept neighborhoods that had once been solidly working-class. Millions of black folks—many of whom had fled Jim Crow segregation in the South with the hope of obtaining decent work in Northern factories—were suddenly trapped in racially segregated, jobless ghettos. ....................................

Revisionist history is really an interesting phenomenon.

Let's be clear.

The Clinton's are the champions of African Americans. And yes, let us see what happened AFTER Bill Clinton was elected. Did he perform well? Well, African-Americans thought so. His popularity among this group remained at over 85%.

That doesn't mean that Sanders isn't a better candidate than Hillary Clinton. Sanders has other issues, the most serious being that he hasn't a clue with regard to issues of the military and foreign affairs.
 
Upvote 0

Sistrin

We are such stuff as dreams are made on...
Site Supporter
Jun 9, 2012
6,488
3,399
Location Location Location
✟197,980.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
This is what I expect to hear from a republican who really has no idea why the black community avoids the republican party....

Because they have been successfully manipulated by the American left. But not all of them:

 
Upvote 0

pakicetus

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2015
1,510
1,878
✟89,017.00
Country
Faroe Islands
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Fine, you have the floor.
Yay!

Okay where do I start? There are hundreds and hundreds of things I could say. Here are a few:

  • In 2011, the Republicans threatened to refuse to raise the debt limit (and then did the same thing in 2013). It's hard to describe how painfully stupid that was. As the Government Accountability Office explains, "The debt limit does not control or limit the ability of the federal government to run deficits or incur obligations. Rather, it is a limit on the ability to pay obligations already incurred." So, as the political scientist Lane Crothers explained at the time, if we ever fail to raise the debt ceiling, "lots and lots of vendors who have already provided goods and services to the government will go unpaid. Essentially, the government would be saying, 'screw you but thanks for the stuff.' Which is pretty much stealing. And doesn't really make it likely that the vendors will ever provide goods and services to the government again. [...] Interest rates will likely rise sharply. After all, in one fell swoop the US will have proved itself to be a risky investment rather than the profoundly safe one it has been for a long, long time. Higher interest rates are virtually certain to shut down the limited economic recovery: mortgage rates, car loans and new construction loans will rise, and people won’t be able to borrow."

One of their demands in return for raising the debt ceiling, signed onto by all 47 Republican senators (including the so-called "reasonable, moderate ones"), was a balanced budget amendment. At the time, we had a $1.3 trillion deficit—so in order to balance the budget, we'd need to simultaneously have colossal spending cuts and colossal tax hikes (at a time when the economy wasn't doing extremely well), which would have wrecked the entire global economy. Another problem? Almost all Republicans had signed a pledge to oppose all possible tax increases, so they couldn't approve the colossal tax hikes they were implicitly demanding! The debt ceiling debacles are the dumbest things I've heard of a group of humans doing, and I literally mean that.

  • After the Republicans won the general election in 2014, they made John Shimkus the head of the House Subcomittee on the Environment and James Inhofe the head of the Senate Environment Committee. John Shimkus believes sea level rise can't be real because "God promised the Earth would not be destroyed by a flood." James Inhofe says scientists shouldn't even discuss global warming (because he thinks Genesis 8:22 settles it), threw a snowball in the Senate to prove that global warming can't be real because it snowed in February, and wrote a book called The Greatest Hoax: How the Global Warming Conspiracy Threatens Your Future (published through WorldNetDaily Books). He thinks the whole worldwide conspiracy was perpetrated by the U.N.
So, in short, Republican politicians are dangerous and crazy, and I have no idea why anyone would ever vote for them.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ThatRobGuy

Part of the IT crowd
Site Supporter
Sep 4, 2005
24,721
14,603
Here
✟1,208,021.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Bernie Sanders is NOT a Democrat. He may be a democratic socialist, but he is a registered Independent.

Sanders learned that if you want to play ball in our two party system, you unfortunately have to get on board with one of the two established parties.

Look at the difference in the treatment of Gary Johnson

He was actually part of the televised debates with the Republicans in 2012 when he was "running as a republican"

As soon as he decided to go libertarian (to more accurately represent his positions), they stuck him out in the parking lot with Jill Stein.

The only way you can be viable as an "other" in our broken two party system is if you have the kind of juice to self fund your own campaign like Perot did back in the day.
 
Upvote 0

Sistrin

We are such stuff as dreams are made on...
Site Supporter
Jun 9, 2012
6,488
3,399
Location Location Location
✟197,980.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
There is much to go through in your response, but starting here because it actually addresses the question:

Black people are still hugely discriminated against and oppressed, while almost two thirds of Republicans think whites are more discriminated against than blacks, and 80% of Republicans don't support any changes at all to advance racial equality.

Your first link leads to another thread you started. The first link there leads to an abstract promoting the claim that times associated with waiting in line to vote were increased because those lines had black people in them; even given "only 3% of voters waited longer than an hour" to vote. There exist a plethora of factors which impact wait times to vote, only the perpetual victim mentality insist it all must be due to racism.

Your second link leads to an article featuring this chart:

imrs.php


Illustrating that on average Blacks spend more time with doctors than people of any other group cited. The wait time question is addressed with this chart:

imrs.php


Illustrating Blacks wait on average 19 minutes longer to get to the doctor. Again, there exist a plethora of reasons why this may be true. But of course the only reason we are expected to entertain is institutionalized racism.

As for the claim on infant mortality rate, what the article cited ignores is the fact the most dangerous place for a black child is in the womb. Quote:

"According to the Institute's state-by-state study of abortion rates among teens, black teenagers between 15 and 19 years old have an abortion rate of 41 per 1,000 women, more than twice the national average of 18 per 1,000. In comparison, white teenagers have an abortion rate of 10 per 1,000 women, which means that African-American teenagers are having abortions at a rate that is about four times higher than that of their white counterparts."

"In New York, the state with the highest abortion rate in the country, the situation is even more grim, with pregnancies among black teens -- excluding miscarriages -- resulting in abortion 67 percent of the time."


Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/21/abortion-rates-black-teens_n_2925427.html

The_Question_Graph.jpg


Which side of the political spectrum champions abortion on demand? Hint, it isn't Conservative Republicans.

As for Cruz's comments concerning Obama being an apologist for radical Islam, he is exactly correct. He is also correct concerning Obama being the most radical President we have ever had. But what is your point in citing Cruz's comments? That it is impossible for Cruz, or anyone else, to have policy differences with the President? Or that any such policy difference is actually racism?

Please.

More later.
 
Upvote 0

mark46

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 29, 2010
20,066
4,740
✟839,713.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
All the "poor Southern Whites" I've known (and that's quite a few) are die hard Democrats.

For many years, it was generally true that poor Southern whites were yellow dog Democrats. That changed on the day the Civil Rights Act was passed, as President Johnson's senate buddies said would happened. From that day forward, poor Southern white have voted Republican by large percentages.
 
Upvote 0

myownmynativeland

Active Member
Jan 10, 2016
298
76
72
USA
✟8,565.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Simply amazing not a single Hillbot who can give a concrete example of just what Her Shrillness hasdone to earn even a single black vote.....beyond 'Vote for me and nothing will change for the better but if you let those awful repubs in nothing will change either'.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

myownmynativeland

Active Member
Jan 10, 2016
298
76
72
USA
✟8,565.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Yes I did. Bill Clinton admitted that his policies made things worse, and Hillary has distanced herself from those days.

I prefer to discuss what the Clinton's want to do today, not what Bill did twenty years ago.

Which brings me back to the real issue of what do the republicans have to offer? Tough love and a prayer....
sooooo, Bubba admits he made things worse for black people. Big Deal!!!! Has he passed on to them the Wealth he has gathered as the instrument of their pain? The hundreds of millions the Clinton's have stashed could help a lot of poor folks.
 
Upvote 0

mark46

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 29, 2010
20,066
4,740
✟839,713.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
Simply amazing not a single Hillbot who can give a concrete example of just what Her Shrillness hasdone to earn even a single black vote.....beyond 'Vote for me and nothing will change for the better but if you let those awful repubs in nothing will change either'.

I understand. You are interested in what statements Hillary has made in the past few months to earn black votes.

Hillary Clinton has a life of service as an advocate for issues that have concerned black voters.
 
Upvote 0

pakicetus

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2015
1,510
1,878
✟89,017.00
Country
Faroe Islands
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Your first link leads to another thread you started. The first link there leads to an abstract promoting the claim that times associated with waiting in line to vote were increased because those lines had black people in them; even given "only 3% of voters waited longer than an hour" to vote. There exist a plethora of factors which impact wait times to vote, only the perpetual victim mentality insist it all must be due to racism.
I don't think it must all be due to racism (I should've made that clear in the thread). I don't care about intentions so much as the reality that exists for black people. And the reality is that for whatever reason, blacks have to wait longer to vote. And honestly, it's a little suspicious to me that everything is worse for black people, and Republicans still try to explain all of it away as if racism isn't the most useful explanation most of the time. I'd say the same thing about hospital wait times.

Also, a lot of the things I listed are simply racism. For example, blacks get 50% fewer callbacks than whites even with identical resumes, and get shown 20% fewer homes even with identical qualifications.
As for the claim on infant mortality rate, what the article cited ignores is the fact the most dangerous place for a black child is in the womb. ... Which side of the political spectrum champions abortion on demand? Hint, it isn't Conservative Republicans.
It would be great if there were fewer abortions. But there's more than one way to prevent abortion. You can make it harder to get (usually by making it extremely uncomfortable and humiliating for the woman), or you can make it less desirable. Women don't abort because they're monsters; they do it because they're desperate and scared. Don't you think they would be less likely to abort if they could be confident their child would live a decent life, and they could afford to raise it? If, for example, America guaranteed every family paid maternity leave, or pre-K education, or healthcare, or paid vacation, or paid sick leave, or tuition-free access to higher education, like many other countries? If we spent more on children in addition to all that—by at least a little, if not 70% more than we do now, like Canada, or twice as much, like Japan, or three times as much, like Germany and Israel, or six times as much, like the U.K. and Ireland and Denmark? But no Republican politician will consider any of those options, because they're "socialism" (not that a lot of so-called "far-left" Democrats will support most of them either). In fact, I see so many Republicans venting about the idea of "paying for other people's children" (often black or ghetto children specifically), as if children are just an expense and greed matters more than their lives.
As for Cruz's comments concerning Obama being an apologist for radical Islam, he is exactly correct.
Really? When did he defend Islamic terrorists like Cruz claimed? I haven't heard everything Obama's ever said, but I would be shocked if he defended terrorists. It's awful and absurd, but Republicans say awful and absurd things about Obama all the time (after all, he's a secret Muslim from Kenya who's trying to destroy America!), so it doesn't even seem remarkable anymore.
He is also correct concerning Obama being the most radical President we have ever had.
Kind of like being the tallest midget. Obama would be right-wing in almost any other first world democracy. But actually, I don't think he's our most radical President: What about Theodore Roosevelt? Among many other things, he supported single-payer healthcare, introduced federally regulated railroad prices, favored the creation of a welfare system to let single mothers stay home and raise their children, and called wealthy families criminals, including his own family. Here's a good description of his progressivism (written by a genuine historian who didn't mind associating himself with the crackpot Heritage Foundation). He sounded a lot like Bernie Sanders, and even Bernie wouldn't say some of these things in a million years:

  • "All very big business, even though honestly conducted, is fraught with such potentiality of menace that there should be thoroughgoing governmental control over it."

  • "We favor the union of all the existing agencies of the Federal Government dealing with the public health into a single national health service."

  • "The citizens of the United States must effectively control the mighty commercial forces which they have themselves called into being, so as to secure among other things good wages for the wage-workers and reasonable prices for the consumers."

  • "I mean not merely that I stand for fair play under the present rules of the games, but that I stand for having those rules changed so as to work for a more substantial equality of opportunity and of reward for equally good service."

  • "No man can be a good citizen unless he has a wage more than sufficient to cover the bare cost of living, and hours of labor short enough so that after his day's work is done he will have time and energy to bear his share in the management of the community, to help in carrying the general load."

  • "A corporation which derives its power from the state should pay the state a just percentage of its earnings in return for the privileges it enjoys."

  • "Every man who fights fearlessly and effectively against special privilege in any form is to that extent a progressive. Every man who, directly or indirectly, upholds privilege and favors the special interests, whether he acts from evil motives or merely because he is puzzle-headed or dull of mental vision or lacking in social sympathy, or whether he simply lacks interest in the subject, is a reactionary."
But what is your point in citing Cruz's comments? That it is impossible for Cruz, or anyone else, to have policy differences with the President? Or that any such policy difference is actually racism?
No. I don't know any evidence that Cruz is a racist. I cited his comments to show that he has no perspective on politics and doesn't know the difference between a moderate liberal and a radical socialist/Communist. He's blowing a fuse over a President who's really pretty right-wing by world standards and would be considered very right-wing in some extremely successful countries like Germany and Denmark.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: stamperben
Upvote 0

Sistrin

We are such stuff as dreams are made on...
Site Supporter
Jun 9, 2012
6,488
3,399
Location Location Location
✟197,980.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I don't think it must all be due to racism (I should've made that clear in the thread). I don't care about intentions so much as the reality that exists for black people. And the reality is that for whatever reason, blacks have to wait longer to vote.

The text of the Fifteenth Amendment:

Section 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.

Section 2. The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

The guarantee is the right to vote, not how long one may have to wait in line to vote. This particular issue is non-starter, a red herring, and isn't worth a research study used to confirm bias.

And honestly, it's a little suspicious to me that everything is worse for black people...

After seven years of the current administration everything is worse for everybody. Except those very rich Obama demonized not only during the 2008 campaign but ever since. Which would include Hillary Clinton, by the way.

...and Republicans still try to explain all of it away as if racism isn't the most useful explanation most of the time. I'd say the same thing about hospital wait times.

Racism isn't the most useful explanation most of the time. Sure, you can find racist within each and every group of people. Recall that Larry Elder once stated quite firmly, and backed his claim up, that in America black people are far more racist than white people. I was in Baltimore last summer only two weeks following the riots. I was singled out by a group of black people on the street not because I was white, but because they thought I was wearing a shirt sporting Puerto-Rican colors. Actually I was wearing a Captain America shirt, but until they figured that out you would have thought I was wearing a shirt which read "death to all black people." When I got back to my hotel I asked the Concierge, who happened to be a black man, about what happened. His answer was short and quick. "Black people hate Puerto-ricans."

Now I take that with a grain of salt, as I do not believe all black people hate Puerto-ricans or anyone else for that matter. But I relay the story to illustrate my point. If you want to talk about racist and racism, you can find it anywhere in any group. There is no monopoly to be found in the Republican party and any such claim is nothing but a lie.

As for hospital wait times, discussions concerning health care around the web routinely include reference to the fact low income families, and note I said low income families and not minorities, tend to use the emergency room as their source of primary care. ER's tend to work off of a triage system, the most in need are prioritized. Call me callous, but I hardly see an average wait of 19 minutes longer than someone else as indicative of societal collapse, let alone institutionalized racism.

Also, a lot of the things I listed are simply racism. For example, blacks get 50% fewer callbacks than whites even with identical resumes, and get shown 20% fewer homes even with identical qualifications.

From the first article sourced, quote:

"Data limitations make it difficult to empirically test these views. Since researchers possess far less data than employers do. White and African-American workers that appear similar to researchers may look very different to employers. So any racial difference in labor market outcomes could just as easily be attributed to differences that are observable to employers but unobservable to researchers."

From later in the report, quote:

"The experiment was carried out between July 2001 and January 2002 in Boston and between July 2001 and May 2002 in Chicago. Over that period, we surveyed all employment ads in the Sunday editions of The Boston Globe and The Chicago Tribune in the sales, administrative support, and clerical and customer services sections."

Anyone who has ever done serious job hunting knows the last place you go to look for a job is the want adds. Quote:

"Finally, and this is an issue pervasive in both our study and the pair-matching audit studies, newspaper ads represent only one channel for job search. As is well known from previous work, social networks are another common means through which people find jobs and one that clearly cannot be studied here. This omission could qualitatively affect our results if African-Americans use social networks more or if employers who rely more on networks differentiate less by race."

In addition I couldn't find listed in the report the race of the human resource personal who would have seen these fabricated resumes. The researchers themselves admitted their study also did not address the percentage of any group which actually were actually hired for the job in question.

It would be great if there were fewer abortions. But there's more than one way to prevent abortion. You can make it harder to get (usually by making it extremely uncomfortable and humiliating for the woman), or you can make it less desirable. Women don't abort because they're monsters; they do it because they're desperate and scared.

The majority are done out of convenience.

The vast majority (in excess of 90%) of abortions are sought for personal reasons:

topbul2d.gif
21% feel that they do not have the financial resources to bring up a child.
topbul2d.gif
21% feel that they are not ready for the responsibility of raising a child.
topbul2d.gif
16% feel that their life would be changed too much. She might have a plan for her future (education, developing a career, etc.) that does not allow for having a child at the present time. She might be looking after an elderly parent and does not have sufficient time or energy to commit to a baby.
topbul2d.gif
12% feel that her relationship with her partner is in difficulty.
topbul2d.gif
11% feel that they are too young, and not sufficiently mature to become a mother.
topbul2d.gif
In 8% of the cases, her children are grown and she does not want to start another family, or she has all the children that she wants.


Source: http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_why.htm

These figures are based on research conducted by the Guttmacher Institute, and can be found here:

http://www.guttmacher.org/sections/abortion.php

In addition, from BET dot com, quote:

"A recent study about national abortion rates and African-American female teens has stirred a huge debate.

According to the Guttmacher Institute, abortion rates among Black women are much higher than we thought: They are four times the rate of white women. The report found that on average, 41 in 1,000 pregnancies among Black women (ages 15-19) are terminated compared to 10 among white women and 20 among Latinas.

Other findings included:

—The highest abortion rates among Black teens occur in Texas (78 per 1,000), New York (76 per 1,000), Delaware (51 per 1,000), Michigan (45 per 1,000), Ohio (35 per 1,000) and Rhode Island (30 per 1,000).

—While Black women account for 13 percent of the female population, they accounted for 30 percent of all abortions. In 2008, 75,960 Black teens 15-19 had abortions, compared to 65,972 among white teens and 41,465 among Hispanic teens.

—Thirty-three percent of women obtaining abortions lacked health insurance, 30 percent had private health insurance, Medicaid covered 31 percent and 5 percent had some other type of health insurance."


Source: http://www.bet.com/news/health/2013/04/01/commentary-why-are-black-abortion-rates-so-high.html

Don't you think they would be less likely to abort if they could be confident their child would live a decent life, and they could afford to raise it?

That is a valid question. It is also a valid question to wonder if women should make that decision before they get pregnant and not after.

If, for example, America guaranteed every family paid maternity leave, or pre-K education, or healthcare, or paid vacation, or paid sick leave, or tuition-free access to higher education, like many other countries?

Healthcare? But you are correct, Obamacare is a dismal failure because that is exactly what is was designed to be. As for the rest of your list, Sanders for President! Who cares we are 20 Trillion dollars in debt, just burn the rich.

Really? When did he defend Islamic terrorists like Cruz claimed? I haven't heard everything Obama's ever said, but I would be shocked if he defended terrorists.

As I stated in another thread, the American left at large and in particular those within the Obama administration to include Obama himself, always act surprised in response to every incident of Islamic atrocity. Their response is always the same, blame anyone and everyone except the Islamist who actually committed the act. Rape rampage in Germany? The fault of German woman, and they have to change their dress. Slaughter of Christmas Party attendees? Hey, there was a Planned Parenthood office just three miles away, must have been Christians. Children gunned down at school by Al-Qaida operatives? Gun control, yep, we need more gun control. ISIS tossing gays from rooftops? Well, that one we will ignore. But just you wait until the next Christian baker refuses to bake a cake.

The programmed response of the American left to Islamic extremist violence is, again, both dangerous and delusional. Seriously, consider these words by our President, quote:

"I don't quibble with labels. I think we all recognize that this is a particular problem that has roots in Muslim communities," Obama said in an interview with CNN's Fareed Zakaria. "But I think we do ourselves a disservice in this fight if we are not taking into account the fact that the overwhelming majority of Muslims reject this ideology."

"The truth of the matter is that they can do harm. But we have the capacity to control how we respond in ways that do not undercut what's the essence of who we are. That means that we don't torture, for example, and thereby undermine our values and credibility around the world," Obama said. "It means that we don't approach this with a strategy of sending out occupying armies and playing whack-a-mole wherever a terrorist group appears because that drains our economic strength and it puts enormous burdens on our military."

Source: http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/01/politics/obama-radical-islam-terrorism-war/index.html

Language such as this is interpreted by Islamic terrorist groups as appeasement, and ultimately capitulation. Citing torture on the part of the US when Islamist take joy in devising the most heinous methods to kill their victims and then post the video on Youtube?

And actions always speak louder than words:

DHS Employee: The Obama Administration Ordered Us To 'Scrub' Intelligence Of Muslims With Terror Ties

Twenty-three-year old Nigerian Muslim Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab intended to detonate Northwest Airlines Flight 253, but the explosives in his underwear malfunctioned and brave passengers subdued him until he could be arrested. The graphic and traumatic defeat they planned for the United States failed, that time.

Following the attempted attack, President Obama threw the intelligence community under the bus for its failure to “connect the dots.” He said, “this was not a failure to collect intelligence, it was a failure to integrate and understand the intelligence that we already had.”

Most Americans were unaware of the enormous damage to morale at the Department of Homeland Security, where I worked, his condemnation caused. His words infuriated many of us because we knew his administration had been engaged in a bureaucratic effort to destroy the raw material—the actual intelligence we had collected for years, and erase those dots. The dots constitute the intelligence needed to keep Americans safe, and the Obama administration was ordering they be wiped away.


Source: http://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattve...lligence-of-muslims-with-terror-ties-n2116446

SHUT UP, BECAUSE THE CRUSADES

"This week, President Obama spoke at the National Prayer Breakfast, where he proceeded to inform an audience of Christians that they ought not judge radical Muslims currently engaged in beheading journalists, defenestrating gays, crucifying children, and engaging in mass rape of women. Why, pray tell, should Christians remain silent? Because, Obama informed them with Ivy League pride, "Unless we get on our high horse and think that this is unique to some other place, remember that during the Crusades and Inquisition, people committed terrible deeds in the name of Christ. In our home country, slavery and Jim Crow all too often was justified in the name of Christ. So it is not unique to one group or one religion."

At some point in our collective history, our ancestors engaged in tribal warfare and cannibalized their fallen enemies. So shut up about the Nazis, you hypocrites."


Source: http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/251103/shut-because-crusades-ben-shapiro

Kind of like being the tallest midget. Obama would be right-wing in almost any other first world democracy.

This is America, and the definition of liberal/progressive is based on our standards, not those of some other European country.

But actually, I don't think he's our most radical President: What about Theodore Roosevelt?

Neither Roosevelt nor Hoover nor FDR enjoyed cult status. Obama does, and a cult figure has far more power than just a leader elected to that position.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Widlast
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

pakicetus

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2015
1,510
1,878
✟89,017.00
Country
Faroe Islands
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
The guarantee is the right to vote, not how long one may have to wait in line to vote. This particular issue is non-starter, a red herring, and isn't worth a research study used to confirm bias.
You know, seeing Republicans say things like that all the time is one of the biggest reasons they have a reputation for being racist. You can't justify or trivialize the fact that it's harder for blacks to vote and claim to support equality or even democracy. Seriously, you say something like that and still wonder why most blacks don't vote Republican?
After seven years of the current administration everything is worse for everybody.
I haven't noticed that. I pointed out earlier in this thread that almost everything is better. Teenage pregnancy is at an all-time low. Violent crime is at a 40-year-low, and it's more than halved in the last 20 years. Abortion is at a 30-year low. Life expectancy is at an all-time high. The rate of uninsured people has fallen from 18% to 12%, even though it was rapidly increasing before Obamacare went into effect. The unemployment rate is below five percent. Education levels are at record highs. "Everything is worse"? I don't think so.
If you want to talk about racist and racism, you can find it anywhere in any group. There is no monopoly to be found in the Republican party and any such claim is nothing but a lie.
You're absolutely right that racism is everywhere. What most black people have been saying is, how can it be omnipresent and not result in blacks having worse opportunities and unequal rights? Black people are only 13% of the population, one seventh the number of whites, so don't you think racism of whites against blacks would lead to much larger effects than racism of blacks against whites?

To see Republicans come up with this ever-expanding patchwork of explanations for why we keep measuring race-based inequality when it's not supposed to exist, it makes me think you guys are in denial. Yeah it's possible one or two studies that measure race-based inequality in housing or employment or voting or education are really measuring some elusive x factor, but how can that be true for all of them? It's just not realistic. At some point we have to say, "Well, it certainly seems like blacks are being treated unequally according to a huge number of diverse studies, so they probably are."
That is a valid question. It is also a valid question to wonder if women should make that decision before they get pregnant and not after.
Looks like you're changing the subject. Are we actually concerned with preventing abortion and unwanted pregnancies or are we concerned with judging women who've made mistakes?
As I stated in another thread, the American left at large and in particular those within the Obama administration to include Obama himself, always act surprised in response to every incident of Islamic atrocity. Their response is always the same, blame anyone and everyone except the Islamist who actually committed the act.
Understanding that factors like the availability of guns make it easier to commit atrocities isn't the same as defending the people who commit them. It's also not defending terrorists to point out that not all Muslims are responsible for terrorists acts, or to point out that Christians have done horrible things too. Your problem with Obama seems to be that he doesn't have a completely one-dimensional view of reality: "Terrorists Muslims, Muslims terrorists, me hate Muslims." Can you find an example of Obama actually defending terrorists or militant Islamists? 'Cause I can find a few examples of him killing them.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0