Why are Mormons so afraid of others.

[joneysd]

I was in Idaho Falls, ID a couple months ago. The church I was in had many ex Mormon people, several gave testimonies how their family and friends shunned them when they left and joined a different denomination. One lady came up to me and said, "Try to get a job here if you aren't a Mormon." I don't know the validity of her comment, but if it is true that is a shame. I was told Idaho Falls is seventy percent Mormon, and I can believe it because there is a Mormon church on every other corner, they also have a beautiful temple right by the falls.

Dr. King had a dream, and it is coming true. I would hope that one day all Christians could join hands and realize we are all different parts of the body of Christ.

The emotions raised over political and religious beliefs do more to separate people than any other subjects, I just don't believe Christ would wish that for his followers.

excellent post....

 

[RevelationTestament]

I was in Idaho Falls, ID a couple months ago. The church I was in had many ex Mormon people, several gave testimonies how their family and friends shunned them when they left and joined a different denomination. One lady came up to me and said, "Try to get a job here if you aren't a Mormon." I don't know the validity of her comment, but if it is true that is a shame. I was told Idaho Falls is seventy percent Mormon, and I can believe it because there is a Mormon church on every other corner, they also have a beautiful temple right by the falls.

I believe there is a fear among families that once a family member has left the church, that they will try to feed anti-LDS ideas to other family members, so they may feel like their relationship has been damaged. I think you have admitted the same is true in reverse. Other Christians shun members of their families that join the LDS church.
However, as a matter of Church policy, there is no "shunning" as a general rule. As, I have stated, it is actually the opposite. We seem to be asked to continue visiting the person and just see how they are doing at least. Sometimes they ask not to be visited anymore, and to my knowledge this is respected too.

 

[joneysd]

I believe there is a fear among families that once a family member has left the church, that they will try to feed anti-LDS ideas to other family members, so they may feel like their relationship has been damaged. I think you have admitted the same is true in reverse. Other Christians shun members of their families that join the LDS church.
However, as a matter of Church policy, there is no "shunning" as a general rule. As, I have stated, it is actually the opposite. We seem to be asked to continue visiting the person and just see how they are doing at least. Sometimes they ask not to be visited anymore, and to my knowledge this is respected too.

what rubbish , no one would shun anyone for joining the lds, they might laugh and point a lot but certainly not shun...

shunning is practiced but i guess we are back to the "this is not doctrine or rules" again....

 

[RBPerry]

I believe there is a fear among families that once a family member has left the church, that they will try to feed anti-LDS ideas to other family members, so they may feel like their relationship has been damaged.

This is a very good point, and one I was once guilty of. Many years ago I began to focus on apologetic s, I just had to get everyone in my theological camp, what I did was push more people away than draw them to Christ. That was a very hard lesson to learn.

Now I will only discuss theological differences privately and only if asked. Some will say I have compromised, and there may be some truth to that. I now have many friends from various denominations including two Jehovah's Witness folks that come by and visit regularly. Do we agree, of course not, but we have learned to love and respect one another.
We did come to agree that we are different parts of the same body of Christ.

I have a dear friend that is a professor and incredibly intelligent, but he is an agnostic. He made a comment to me some time back. He said, "When you Theist can come to agreement on your theology, I might be prone to listen." How could I argue his challenge?

I gave him the book "New evidence that demands a verdict." He did read it, and continued with the same challenge.

Are we bringing the lost in, or scaring them off?

 

[joneysd]

This is a very good point, and one I was once guilty of. Many years ago I began to focus on apologetic s, I just had to get everyone in my theological camp, what I did was push more people away than draw them to Christ. That was a very hard lesson to learn.

Now I will only discuss theological differences privately and only if asked. Some will say I have compromised, and there may be some truth to that. I now have many friends from various denominations including two Jehovah's Witness folks that come by and visit regularly. Do we agree, of course not, but we have learned to love and respect one another.
We did come to agree that we are different parts of the same body of Christ.

I have a dear friend that is a professor and incredibly intelligent, but he is an agnostic. He made a comment to me some time back. He said, "When you Theist can come to agreement on your theology, I might be prone to listen." How could I argue his challenge?

I gave him the book "New evidence that demands a verdict." He did read it, and continued with the same challenge.

Are we bringing the lost in, or scaring them off?

some groups have made a business out of poking at the bible to try and highlight what they perceive to be problems as it furthers their cause of being the only group who has got it right the lds and the jw's are among the worse for this...

 

[RBPerry]

some groups have made a business out of poking at the bible to try and highlight what they perceive to be problems as it furthers their cause of being the only group who has got it right the lds and the jw's are among the worse for this...

Get a Baptist and a Pentecostal group together and see what happens. Slinging mud at any on group isn't right. Speaking of the Bible, have you read the Nag Hammabi letters, have you explored the Gnostic thinking. Until we can agree that there is a tremendous amount that we don't know for sure we will never come together as a body of believers.

We also need to think outside the Bible box, not re-write it, miss interpret it, but realize that God is still speaking to his people, problem is most aren't listening.

 

[joneysd]

Get a Baptist and a Pentecostal group together and see what happens. Slinging mud at any on group isn't right. Speaking of the Bible, have you read the Nag Hammabi letters, have you explored the Gnostic thinking. Until we can agree that there is a tremendous amount that we don't know for sure we will never come together as a body of believers.

We also need to think outside the Bible box, not re-write it, miss interpret it, but realize that God is still speaking to his people, problem is most aren't listening.

i've been to both churches for extended periods, they disagree in some doctrinal points but both will tell you Jesus is Lord and salvation is through him....

 

[Moodshadow]

I sure found out who my real friends were when I left the LDS church. People I thought were among my closest friends suddenly became icebergs and/or AWOL. It broke my heart at first, but gradually it sank in that people who behave this way were never real friends in the first place, because real friendship is unconditional. Other LDS friends have remained loyal, and I love them with all my heart and always will. And on the other side of the fence, there have been some "Christian" friends, once they learned that I had been LDS for many years - and particularly when they heard that I still have many LDS friends - who were so shocked and appalled that they grew instantly cool. Others have put their arms around me and love me unconditionally, period. It's pretty much like every other aspect of life: ignorance begets fear, and fear is really what makes people behave like that. Very sad.

 

[RevelationTestament]

I sure found out who my real friends were when I left the LDS church. People I thought were among my closest friends suddenly became icebergs and/or AWOL. It broke my heart at first, but gradually it sank in that people who behave this way were never real friends in the first place, because real friendship is unconditional. Other LDS friends have remained loyal, and I love them with all my heart and always will. And on the other side of the fence, there have been some "Christian" friends, once they learned that I had been LDS for many years - and particularly when they heard that I still have many LDS friends - who were so shocked and appalled that they grew instantly cool. Others have put their arms around me and love me unconditionally, period. It's pretty much like every other aspect of life: ignorance begets fear, and fear is really what makes people behave like that. Very sad.

you at least speak from your true experience vs:

what rubbish , no one would shun anyone for joining the lds, they might laugh and point a lot but certainly not shun...

I have had old friends who once they learned I was in the LDS church, wouldn't answer the phone.
One did recently call me tho after 13 yrs.

 

[joneysd]

you at least speak from your true experience vs:



I have had old friends who once they learned I was in the LDS church, wouldn't answer the phone.
One did recently call me tho after 13 yrs.

did they laugh and point...

 

[RevelationTestament]

This is a very good point, and one I was once guilty of. Many years ago I began to focus on apologetic s, I just had to get everyone in my theological camp, what I did was push more people away than draw them to Christ. That was a very hard lesson to learn.

Now I will only discuss theological differences privately and only if asked. Some will say I have compromised, and there may be some truth to that. I now have many friends from various denominations including two Jehovah's Witness folks that come by and visit regularly. Do we agree, of course not, but we have learned to love and respect one another.
We did come to agree that we are different parts of the same body of Christ.

I have a dear friend that is a professor and incredibly intelligent, but he is an agnostic. He made a comment to me some time back. He said, "When you Theist can come to agreement on your theology, I might be prone to listen." How could I argue his challenge?

I gave him the book "New evidence that demands a verdict." He did read it, and continued with the same challenge.

Are we bringing the lost in, or scaring them off?

Religion is of course one of those subjects generally not brought up in "polite" conversation - the other is of course politics. I believe it exactly because we see religious issues and political issues differently, and the conversation can quickly grow cold or even divisive. Of course on a site devoted to religion, visitors are looking to discuss religious issues, hence here I don't fell I am invading people's "space."
As long as some is willing to discuss my faith, I am more than happy to share it, but I don't make a point to bring it up out in public.

 

[RevelationTestament]

did they laugh and point...

Not as far as I know. Apparently that is just you.

 

[BigDaddy4]

What is your "first hand knowledge?" I have first hand knowledge. I went inactive. I was not shunned. I later was invited to church. Same for other members of my family. The shunning thing is ridiculous. Maybe some SLC elites do this type of thing, but it certainly is not a general practice of the church. In fact I and others in my ward have been specifically told to go see how people who have stopped coming or left the church are doing.
Now if it appears someone takes an active interest in attacking the church, they might get shunned, but I'm sure that is true of basically every church or group to a certain extent.

My wife's family is mostly Mormon. She left and sent in her letter to get her name off your rolls. Family was not pleased with her or me. Another relative of hers saw the light of Christ outside the lds church and left as well. Family gatherings have been frosty at times.

Please don't pretend it doesn't happen, because it does.

 

[BigDaddy4]

The first vision is hardly the foundation of the LDS faith, LOL. Again you are mischaracterizing what I said. It wasn't "one confused teenager" giving the accounts. The "official" first vision Joseph wrote for the church was years after the fact - well into his thirtees. Details such as exact age and dates can become a little fuzzy for anybody. I've had some very powerful experiences, but I cannot recall my exact age at the time any more. It is not necessarily an issue of "forgetting" or "mixing up" details either. Sometimes just different details are given. As I showed with the details of Paul's conversion sometimes the details seem to even contradict one another in the various accounts. How do you explain one account stating those with Paul not hearing a voice, and another that does? That seem like a detail one would not forget...

No first vision, no religion. Therefore, it is a foundational story.

If you had claim to have been visited by God and Jesus, I'm pretty sure you would not call them just "2 personages" or confuse them with a bunch of "angels". Also pretty sure God and Jesus would not be too pleased to be confused with their created beings (personages and angels).

But hey, what do facts matter when telling a nice story??

 

[Moodshadow]

No first vision, no religion. Therefore, it is a foundational story.

If you had claim to have been visited by God and Jesus, I'm pretty sure you would not call them just "2 personages" or confuse them with a bunch of "angels". Also pretty sure God and Jesus would not be too pleased to be confused with their created beings (personages and angels).

But hey, what do facts matter when telling a nice story??

Speaking of the FV (and there have been many versions of it, not just a few), the GAs are so painfully aware of the controversy concerning it that they actually fell for Mark Hofmann's forgery of a letter in which Joseph Smith supposedly said that during the vision he was actually visited by a white salamander rather than an angel. The letter also alluded to Smith's well-known practice of money-digging, another embarrassment to the church. Believing it authentic, Gordon B. Hinckley authorized the purchase of this letter (for thousands of dollars of church money) from Hofmann in order to get it out of the public eye. So much for the priesthood power of discernment, huh?

 

[RBPerry]

Of course on a site devoted to religion, visitors are looking to discuss religious issues, hence here I don't fell I am invading people's "space."

That is true, but what if the visitors to this forum are agnostics or atheist that are searching?

Many threads will have a large number of people following the topic without commenting. What kind of impression are we making on them?

 

[BigDaddy4]

Speaking of the FV (and there have been many versions of it, not just a few), the GAs are so painfully aware of the controversy concerning it that they actually fell for Mark Hofmann's forgery of a letter in which Joseph Smith supposedly said that during the vision he was actually visited by a white salamander rather than an angel. The letter also alluded to Smith's well-known practice of money-digging, another embarrassment to the church. Believing it authentic, Gordon B. Hinckley authorized the purchase of this letter (for thousands of dollars of church money) from Hofmann in order to get it out of the public eye. So much for the priesthood power of discernment, huh?

At least 9 versions that I've seen. You'd think that the founder of a religion could get his facts straight, especially, as you point out, one allegedly having the priesthood power of discernment.

No first vision = no BoM, no D&C's, PoGP, and no religious zealots trashing Christianity. It's the start of their story, so how can it NOT be foundational??

 

[RevelationTestament]

At least 9 versions that I've seen. You'd think that the founder of a religion could get his facts straight, especially, as you point out, one allegedly having the priesthood power of discernment.

When you look at it like that, apparently Paul couldn't either. I'm sure as many times as the story gets told, the facts would be different. This is a well known phenomena in the law. Lawyers are well aware that the facts come out a little differently every time.

No first vision = no BoM, no D&C's, PoGP, and no religious zealots trashing Christianity. It's the start of their story, so how can it NOT be foundational??

This really isn't true at all. No first vision. Next visit instruction on getting the Book of Mormon. Then he gets the Book of Mormon and translates it. Then he organizes the church. See how that works? Just fine.

 

[Moodshadow]

When you look at it like that, apparently Paul couldn't either. I'm sure as many times as the story gets told, the facts would be different. This is a well known phenomena in the law. Lawyers are well aware that the facts come out a little differently every time.


This really isn't true at all. No first vision. Next visit instruction on getting the Book of Mormon. Then he gets the Book of Mormon and translates it. Then he organizes the church. See how that works? Just fine.

"No first vision. Next visit..." makes no sense whatsoever. How can there be a next if there wasn't a first? And if you believe there really was a first, which one of the many so-called first visions is it that you believe? Oh, wait, I think I know - it would be the official one that appears in the the LDS scriptures, of course - the one that has been edited and re-edited by the GAs until they got it exactly like they wanted it to appear.

 

[Ironhold]

rubbish, the mormon habit of shunning is to well shown to deny it...

it has been seen time and time again....

If it's an official practice as you claim, then surely you must have proof of it being in the church's official teachings.