Who Made This Statement re Joseph Smith?

[fatboys]

Insulting another persons religion is exactly what you just did.

I did not insult what he believes. I could not care less what either of you believe. If you have more truth to your version of the gospel please present it. But it has to be more than what I have because why would I go from more knowledge to less. But don't tell me I'm wrong and going to hell for it.

 

[fatboys]

That's a difference without a distinction.

I have studied church history for 35 years and been apologetics for about 20. I know that Joseph Smith was called to do a great work in our day and the more I learn the more it strengthens my faith in a restoration. There is nothing like it. So when you mock and belittle Joseph Smiths character it is wrong. It does not bother me because you are ill informed.

 

[Hammster]

Yes.

Then you'll agree with me that Mormonism is a false religion and all Mormons should repent and believe the true gospel.

 

[smaneck]

That's a difference without a distinction.

Oh, there is a big distinction. If you say, "I think you are wrong" you aren't setting yourself up as the arbitrator of right and wrong.

 

[smaneck]

Then you'll agree with me that Mormonism is a false religion and all Mormons should repent and believe the true gospel.

Where do you think this kind of one-up manship gets you? Do you think it makes people ore willing to hear the Gospel. Do you think they will perceive it as 'good news'?

 

[seekingsolace]

I have studied church history for 35 years and been apologetics for about 20. I know that Joseph Smith was called to do a great work in our day and the more I learn the more it strengthens my faith in a restoration. There is nothing like it. So when you mock and belittle Joseph Smiths character it is wrong. It does not bother me because you are ill informed.

This is upsetting.

 

[Ironhold]

Where do you think this kind of one-up manship gets you? Do you think it makes people ore willing to hear the Gospel. Do you think they will perceive it as 'good news'?

This is what I've been trying to tell people about: if all you do is go negative, then you'll lose potential followers as well.

 

[seekingsolace]

This is what I've been trying to tell people about: if all you do is go negative, then you'll lose potential followers as well.

Yes, it's better to clean the outside of the cup.

 

[mmksparbud]

Trying to get to the truth of things can be daunting. Rocks have to overturned and whatever lies underneath exposed. Smith and Young claim that what they teach is truth and that it means salvation or damnation to accept or reject them. How can something with that kind of lofty claim not be examined minutely?? They have made the claim their revelations are Gods truth--why are those who examine these works regarded as condemning when, by their own words, it's imperative to know these things?? And it is very difficult to get to the bottom of things when some say they don't teach the things that the BOM clearly states. So either, the truth is not there, or the LDS are rejecting their own prophet's sayings but still trying to maintain their authenticity at the same time! These threads are for those who want to understand what to make of Mormon believes. Anyone who is bored can not follow, pretty simple. I have my reasons for wanting to know about this. And I have questions and I'll probably have more of them. Every faith gets scrutinized by others, that's the way it's supposed to be. We are not to just accept everything that gets thrown at us.
(1Jn 4:1) Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
You can't make that decision without a lot of digging to find out.

 

[Ironhold]

Yes, it's better to clean the outside of the cup.

No, we're saying "make sure you wash the entire thing".

 

[drstevej]

I have studied church history for 35 years and been apologetics for about 20. I know that Joseph Smith was called to do a great work in our day and the more I learn the more it strengthens my faith in a restoration.

I have studied church history for 40 years (ThM and PhD) and been apologetics for about 35. I know that Joseph Smith was a false prophet and the more I learn the more it confirms it is Smith made chicanery.

 

[drstevej]

Then you'll agree with me that Mormonism is a false religion and all Mormons should repent and believe the true gospel.

Indeed.

 

[Ironhold]

The more I see what passes for "Christian love" as displayed by critics of the church, the more I want to remain a member of the LDS faith.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

The more I see what passes for "Christian love" as displayed by critics of the church, the more I want to remain a member of the LDS faith.

And the more I see Mormons retreat into blaming their "victimhood" at the hands of Christians or others, the more I am convinced that it is just misdirection to avoid having to have a conversation of any substance.

Why play games? Mormons think that we Christians are wrong and we believe that they are wrong. This is no secret to either side. So what makes it so "offensive" or "belittling" for one side to say it about the other? When a Mormon tells me I'm wrong, I obviously will strongly disagree but I don't feel he is "belittling" me just by disagreeing. I know he has his honest beliefs and they differ from mine so to him my beliefs must be wrong. It doesn't belittle me for someone to tell me he disagrees, nor should someone feel belittled or mocked for being told what they believe is wrong.

There is a whole lot of time being wasted in this thread just by arguing over what is "belittling" or not, and it's mostly for nothing.

 

[drstevej]

Galatians 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

 

[smaneck]

I have my reasons for wanting to know about this. And I have questions and I'll probably have more of them. Every faith gets scrutinized by others, that's the way it's supposed to be.

Are you asking your questions because you want answers or have you in fact already made up your mind?

Scrutinizing a faith is finr and I would be doing so myself if there weren't so many wolves around ready to pounce on them.

 

[smaneck]

I have studied church history for 40 years (ThM and PhD) and been apologetics for about 35. I know that Joseph Smith was a false prophet and the more I learn the more it confirms it is Smith made chicanery.

Then you are not here to "better understand and learn about different religions" which is the purpose of the CWR forum.

I have a PhD as well and one of my fields was church history, but my mentor Heiko Oberman would never have acted the way you are.

 

[Hammster]

Where do you think this kind of one-up manship gets you? Do you think it makes people ore willing to hear the Gospel. Do you think they will perceive it as 'good news'?

It's not one-upmanship. It just points out the "you can't tell me I'm wrong" fallacy.

 

[drstevej]

I learn more about Mormonism here. I had lots of Dutch mentors as well (e.g. Cornelius Van Til).
Your turn.

 

[smaneck]

And the more I see Mormons retreat into blaming their "victimhood" at the hands of Christians or others, the more I am convinced that it is just misdirection to avoid having to have a conversation of any substance.

Why play games? Mormons think that we Christians are wrong and we believe that they are wrong. This is no secret to either side. So what makes it so "offensive" or "belittling" for one side to say it about the other? When a Mormon tells me I'm wrong, I obviously will strongly disagree but I don't feel he is "belittling" me just by disagreeing. I know he has his honest beliefs and they differ from mine so to him my beliefs must be wrong. It doesn't belittle me for someone to tell me he disagrees, nor should someone feel belittled or mocked for being told what they believe is wrong.

There is a whole lot of time being wasted in this thread just by arguing over what is "belittling" or not, and it's mostly for nothing.

Hey, it is not the Mormons who have been complaining about the 'belittling' here. It is those of us who don't claim to be either Mormons or Christians. We are not talking about disagreements here, we are talking about people trying to dredge up dirt on another religion. That isn't the purpose of the CWR forum. It seems to me that when these thread were brought over to this forum, there was an obligation to abide by the rules of this forum. Whatever you guys want to do over in your theology forum (whether orthodox or unorthodox) is your own business. The stated purpose of this forum is
"to come together to better understand and learn about different religions.
CWR is also a place where Christians and non-Christians can socialize with one another and develop friendships based on mutual respect."

How in the world can the kinds of attacks taking place against Mormons further that end? And if you are not interested in furthering that end, what are you doing here?