HannibalFlavius
Well-Known Member
I don't think Ebed is going to let you talk about me that way, I'm his whipping boy, not yours.
Meh, Ok, I guess there is enough of Hannibal to share.
Welcome Sister.
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Who Is the Woman in Revelation 12
- Thread starter Just The Facts
- Start date
I don't think Ebed is going to let you talk about me that way, I'm his whipping boy, not yours.
Meh, Ok, I guess there is enough of Hannibal to share.
Welcome Sister.
Sure you can. It's not secret at all...this is the first promise of Christ!
Well sister...we have a tremendous problem here....because that which Daniel was told to seal up...was unsealed by Christ!
Daniel was not asking the Lord at all about Genesis 3:15 in Daniel 12! Daniel is trying to understand everything he was shown in Daniel 11:1- 12:4.
God would not allow Daniel to understand it.
How do we know this? Because Jesus unseals this in Revelation 5 sister! This is what's happening at Revelation 5:9, 10:
9 And they *sang a new song, saying, Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.
10 You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth.
That's the picture sister!
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No offence was meant, just trying to establish what Jesus Christ's main teaching was, with regards to the Kingdom.
Matthew 9:35
New International Version (NIV)
The Workers Are Few
35 Jesus went through all the towns and villages, teaching in their synagogues, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom and healing every disease and sickness.
He was also giving a fore-gleam of what the Kingdom was going to do during it's rulership.
Luke 4:43
New International Version (NIV)
43 But he said, “I must proclaim the good news of the kingdom of God to the other towns also, because that is why I was sent.”
This what the Kingdom is going to bring about.
Revelation 21:3-4
New International Version (NIV)
3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
Positive stuff, which is a real hope of Everlasting Life in the future is it not?
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Not the whole picture, as things that were prophesied would not be revealed until the end times, which there would be an appointed time for all things to be revealed, which is now happening in front of your very eyes, but as you know we have to keep on the watch.
The light get's brighter as that day draws nearer.
Are you keeping on the watch my Brother.
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You must understand "the end" is the end of the Jewish age as God's covenant people.
Look at Daniel 12:1
“Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued.
Daniel's people were the Jews sister. Their "age" ended when Christ brought in the New Covenant by His blood. The Jews ceased to be God's covenant people.
Jesus made this very clear when He instituted the New Covenant! He then sent the apostles out to preach to ALL NATIONS.
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HannibalFlavius
Well-Known Member
י מֵחֲמַס אָחִיךָ יַעֲקֹב, תְּכַסְּךָ בוּשָׁה; וְנִכְרַתָּ, לְעוֹלָם. יא בְּיוֹם עֲמָדְךָ מִנֶּגֶד, בְּיוֹם שְׁבוֹת זָרִים חֵילוֹ; וְנָכְרִים בָּאוּ שְׁעָרָו, וְעַל-יְרוּשָׁלִַם יַדּוּ גוֹרָל--גַּם-אַתָּה, כְּאַחַד מֵהֶם. יב וְאַל-תֵּרֶא בְיוֹם-אָחִיךָ, בְּיוֹם נָכְרוֹ, וְאַל-תִּשְׂמַח לִבְנֵי-יְהוּדָה, בְּיוֹם אָבְדָם; וְאַל-תַּגְדֵּל פִּיךָ, בְּיוֹם צָרָה. יג אַל-תָּבוֹא בְשַׁעַר-עַמִּי בְּיוֹם אֵידָם, אַל-תֵּרֶא גַם-אַתָּה בְּרָעָתוֹ בְּיוֹם אֵידוֹ; וְאַל-תִּשְׁלַחְנָה בְחֵילוֹ, בְּיוֹם אֵידוֹ. יד וְאַל-תַּעֲמֹד, עַל-הַפֶּרֶק, לְהַכְרִית, אֶת-פְּלִיטָיו; וְאַל-תַּסְגֵּר שְׂרִידָיו, בְּיוֹם צָרָה. טו כִּי-קָרוֹב יוֹם-יְהוָה, עַל-כָּל-הַגּוֹיִם: כַּאֲשֶׁר עָשִׂיתָ יֵעָשֶׂה לָּךְ, גְּמֻלְךָ יָשׁוּב בְּרֹאשֶׁךָ.
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Hi Ebed
Quote
Where? Psalm 89:37 is not saying the moon is a symbol or a sign at all! Whereas Revelation 12:1 tells us this was a SIGN that appeared in heaven, which matches to Joseph's dream. You're making the moon a symbol but Psalm 89:37 is NOT saying that. It's saying as sure as we know the moon is establised from creation His promise to David will be...so there's a huge difference.
End Quote
Ps:89:34: My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. 35: Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David. 36: His seed shall endure forever, and his throne as the sun before me. 37: It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven.
Ebed it is not saying anything about the moon being there from creation. The verse says that the Moon will FOEREVER be a witness to everyone about the Promise.
IT (the Promise) shall be established Forever AS the moon AS a faithful WITNESS to the IT (the promise).
You are ignoring the fact that the woman in Rev 12 IS STANDING on the moon and she is CLOTHED in the Sun. Jesus the only one who reveals does not say this for no reason, just because!!!!!. He says it because this is something the Churches will understand it is being taught to them by the Saints.
Israel did not stand on Sarah or Rachael nor was it ever clothed in Jacob.
Here is what the Churches were being taught. Here is what they are taught they are standing on.
Gal:3:22: But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Eph:1:13: In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Ti:1:2: In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
Heb:4:1: Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
Heb:6:12: That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
The Churches are being taught that they are standing on the Promise (which is a house built on solid ground) God made and that they get the promise through faith.
Mt:7:24: Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mt:7:25: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
The Woman in Rev 12 is wearing the Sun.............
Ps:84:11: For the LORD God is a sun and shield: the LORD will give grace and glory: no good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly.
Here is Paul teaching the exact same thing to the Churches. That they must wear the Sun as a Sheild
Eph:6:11: Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph:6:13: Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Not only is Paul teaching to the Churches he is teaching it in Direct Reference to the Time of the End which as we know that is what Revelation is all about, the evil day.
Quote
That's wrong Just The Facts. I'm on firm footing because the only point I made to you from Jeremiah is God does typify Israel as a woman prophetically. That is now clear.
Next the woman is called Mystery Bablyon mother of Harlots. You last saw that woman going into the wilderness in Revelation 12:14...the next time you see her, she's riding a scarlet beast, and she has that name on her forehead. What did Jeremiah say in Jeremiah 3:3?: 3 Therefore the showers have been withheld, And there has been no spring rain. Yet you had a harlots forehead; You refused to be ashamed.
My case is made!
End Quote
Your case is not made MY CASE is made. You are saying the woman is the Physical Nation and People. I am saying it is the Spiritual Identity / Church / Faith of the Nation
She is NOT called the Mother of Harlots at all. You are adding that to the verse she is called a Harlot. The no rain is a direct reference to the curse of Lev 26:.
Once again you TOTALLY IGNORE the verse I pointed out WHERE GOD HIMSELF calls the People and the Land HIM AND HE. Not HER and SHE.
So Please allow me to point it out again in larger txt you seemed to have missed it
13: For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.
In this Verse above and below from Jeremiah 2 God calls the physical Nation that is the land and the People HE not She
Jer:2:14: Is Israel a servant? is he a homeborn slave? why is he spoiled?
and just so there is no mistake that these verses speak of the physical nation I give you the next verse.
15: The young lions roared upon him, and yelled, and they made his land waste: his cities are burned without inhabitant.
The fact the people and the land are him is everywhere as you pointed out in Exodus.
Ex 4:22 Then you shall say to Pharaoh, Thus says the Lord, Israel is My son, My firstborn.
The People are a HIM a SON a HE
Quote
You can't make your own rules Just The Facts...you have to pay attention to what's going on! In Jeremiah 2 God is making a different point because He's looking at the history of Israel to make His case through Jeremiah... so now WHY DO YOU USE ONLY JEREMIAH 2:14 AND NOT LOOK AT JEREMIAH 2:20?:
20 For long ago I broke your yoke And tore off your bonds; But you said, I will not serve! For on every high hill And under every green tree You have lain down as a harlot
End Quote
You're ability to call the kettle black is astounding Ebed. It is not me that is ignoring the Fact that God is calling the People and the Land HE in Jeremiah 2. It is not me making his own rules, that is you doing that.
Then to top it all off the verse you use TOTALLY PROVES what I am saying it is a SHE, a HER, A Virgin, A harlot, a Harlot, whenever it has to do with the Spiritual WORSHIP / Faith / Church of the Nation.
Find me ONE SINGLE verse where it is Female and not about the Spiritual Worship of Nation. You will not find it I know because I have looked.
God calls the Land and people him or He or Son over and over.
God ONLY refers to Israel as a She when it has to do with the Spiritual Identity / Church / Religion / Worship of the Nation.
Your inability to admit this does not serve you well, it leaves you lacking in understanding. This handicaps you when you get to Rev 12:
It is obvious we have both said all we are going to say on this. I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Peace to you my Brother in Christ.
Quote
Where? Psalm 89:37 is not saying the moon is a symbol or a sign at all! Whereas Revelation 12:1 tells us this was a SIGN that appeared in heaven, which matches to Joseph's dream. You're making the moon a symbol but Psalm 89:37 is NOT saying that. It's saying as sure as we know the moon is establised from creation His promise to David will be...so there's a huge difference.
End Quote
Ps:89:34: My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. 35: Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David. 36: His seed shall endure forever, and his throne as the sun before me. 37: It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven.
Ebed it is not saying anything about the moon being there from creation. The verse says that the Moon will FOEREVER be a witness to everyone about the Promise.
IT (the Promise) shall be established Forever AS the moon AS a faithful WITNESS to the IT (the promise).
You are ignoring the fact that the woman in Rev 12 IS STANDING on the moon and she is CLOTHED in the Sun. Jesus the only one who reveals does not say this for no reason, just because!!!!!. He says it because this is something the Churches will understand it is being taught to them by the Saints.
Israel did not stand on Sarah or Rachael nor was it ever clothed in Jacob.
Here is what the Churches were being taught. Here is what they are taught they are standing on.
Gal:3:22: But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Eph:1:13: In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Ti:1:2: In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
Heb:4:1: Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
Heb:6:12: That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
The Churches are being taught that they are standing on the Promise (which is a house built on solid ground) God made and that they get the promise through faith.
Mt:7:24: Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mt:7:25: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
The Woman in Rev 12 is wearing the Sun.............
Ps:84:11: For the LORD God is a sun and shield: the LORD will give grace and glory: no good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly.
Here is Paul teaching the exact same thing to the Churches. That they must wear the Sun as a Sheild
Eph:6:11: Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph:6:13: Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Not only is Paul teaching to the Churches he is teaching it in Direct Reference to the Time of the End which as we know that is what Revelation is all about, the evil day.
Quote
That's wrong Just The Facts. I'm on firm footing because the only point I made to you from Jeremiah is God does typify Israel as a woman prophetically. That is now clear.
Next the woman is called Mystery Bablyon mother of Harlots. You last saw that woman going into the wilderness in Revelation 12:14...the next time you see her, she's riding a scarlet beast, and she has that name on her forehead. What did Jeremiah say in Jeremiah 3:3?: 3 Therefore the showers have been withheld, And there has been no spring rain. Yet you had a harlots forehead; You refused to be ashamed.
My case is made!
End Quote
Your case is not made MY CASE is made. You are saying the woman is the Physical Nation and People. I am saying it is the Spiritual Identity / Church / Faith of the Nation
She is NOT called the Mother of Harlots at all. You are adding that to the verse she is called a Harlot. The no rain is a direct reference to the curse of Lev 26:.
Once again you TOTALLY IGNORE the verse I pointed out WHERE GOD HIMSELF calls the People and the Land HIM AND HE. Not HER and SHE.
So Please allow me to point it out again in larger txt you seemed to have missed it
13: For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.
In this Verse above and below from Jeremiah 2 God calls the physical Nation that is the land and the People HE not She
Jer:2:14: Is Israel a servant? is he a homeborn slave? why is he spoiled?
and just so there is no mistake that these verses speak of the physical nation I give you the next verse.
15: The young lions roared upon him, and yelled, and they made his land waste: his cities are burned without inhabitant.
The fact the people and the land are him is everywhere as you pointed out in Exodus.
Ex 4:22 Then you shall say to Pharaoh, Thus says the Lord, Israel is My son, My firstborn.
The People are a HIM a SON a HE
Quote
You can't make your own rules Just The Facts...you have to pay attention to what's going on! In Jeremiah 2 God is making a different point because He's looking at the history of Israel to make His case through Jeremiah... so now WHY DO YOU USE ONLY JEREMIAH 2:14 AND NOT LOOK AT JEREMIAH 2:20?:
20 For long ago I broke your yoke And tore off your bonds; But you said, I will not serve! For on every high hill And under every green tree You have lain down as a harlot
End Quote
You're ability to call the kettle black is astounding Ebed. It is not me that is ignoring the Fact that God is calling the People and the Land HE in Jeremiah 2. It is not me making his own rules, that is you doing that.
Then to top it all off the verse you use TOTALLY PROVES what I am saying it is a SHE, a HER, A Virgin, A harlot, a Harlot, whenever it has to do with the Spiritual WORSHIP / Faith / Church of the Nation.
Find me ONE SINGLE verse where it is Female and not about the Spiritual Worship of Nation. You will not find it I know because I have looked.
God calls the Land and people him or He or Son over and over.
God ONLY refers to Israel as a She when it has to do with the Spiritual Identity / Church / Religion / Worship of the Nation.
Your inability to admit this does not serve you well, it leaves you lacking in understanding. This handicaps you when you get to Rev 12:
It is obvious we have both said all we are going to say on this. I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Peace to you my Brother in Christ.
Last edited:
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That's fine Just The Facts...because just as you think I'm wrong...I think you're confusing the facts on this one....and it's your inability to see what;s going on in Rev 12.
One thing's for sure in Genesis 37 all of the symbols except the woman are there...you can't say that for Psalm 89 can you?
Doesn't Jacob Identify himself as the sun...and Rachel as the moon, and Joseph and his 11 brothers as the 12 stars?
I agree...we need to drop this.
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Hi Ebed
It was nice to discuss this with you without the negative exchanges that often happen on the forums. Peace to you my Brother in Christ
It was nice to discuss this with you without the negative exchanges that often happen on the forums. Peace to you my Brother in Christ
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iamlamad
Lamad
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Does ANY of that tell you what the intent of the Author is in this chapter?
I know what His intent was, because He spoke words to me and told me.
"Chapter 12 was Me introducing John to the dragon and in particular, what the dragon would be doing during the 2nd half of the week. I also chose to show John what the dragon did when I was born. The first five verses were a history lesson to John."
OF COURSE these verse were a history lesson for John, for they describe how Satan as the dragon, using King Herod, tried to murder Jesus as in infant.
Verse 6 tells us WHEN the words of Jesus in Matthew 24 will come to pass:
15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:Verse 6 shows them fleeing. Therefore the abomination Jesus spoke of has happened, perhaps a few seconds before verse 6.
Verses 7-9 are where Satan is cast down from the heavens. WHY HERE? It is because Adam's 6000 year lease on earth has EXPIRED. The Kingdoms of the earth have been transferred to Our Lord. WHY transferred? Because the 6000 year lease has expired, and that was the ONLY thing Satan had a legal hold on. The moment the 7th trumpet sounded, the mystery was finished: the 6000 years were ended, and the kingdoms of the world were transferred. Michael has been waiting to hear that 7th trumpet for eons. The moment he hears it, he goes straight after Satan to cast him down.
Verse 10-17 what happens here when Satan is cast down.
You can believe what ever you choose to believe here, but I will believe our LORD. No, I really cannot see ANY feasts here. This chapter is not about feasts. It is about the dragon. He also told me to count how many times the dragon was mentioned, including pronouns. I counted 32.
Lamad
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