Who Is the Woman in Revelation 12

Just The Facts

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Who is the Woman in Rev 12:

Some say it is Israel, some say it is Mary. Who does Scripture say this woman really is. We need to look at what is said about her.

1: And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

She is clothed in the Sun and stands on the Moon and has a crown of 12 stars.

2: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

She is about to give Birth

5: And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

She bears a Man Child who will rule the world and who is caught up to God’s Throne.

I think everyone agrees that the Man-child is Jesus. So it is easy to see why so many say the woman is Mary. Others say no Israel brought forth Jesus not Mary.

First we need to see who scripture says brought forth Jesus so that we trust the Word of God not the doctrines of men.

Matt:1:20: But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.

This verse says it is the Holy Spirit that brings forth Jesus. What else does God’s Word tell us.

Lk:1:35: And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Once Again it is the Holy Spirit that brings forth Jesus.

So we See that Scripture tells us it is the Holy Spirit that brings forth Jesus not Mary and not the Nation of Judea.

So does this mean the Holy Spirit is a WOMAN??????????? That is a very Gnostic view of the Holy Spirit. I do not believe that is what is being said. We need to remember this is all metaphoric we need to look at who Scripture says a woman in prophetic scripture is.

Isa:23:12: And he said, Thou shalt no more rejoice, O thou oppressed virgin, daughter of Zidon: arise, pass over to Chittim; there also shalt thou have no rest. 13: Behold the land of the Chaldeans; this people was not, till the Assyrian founded it for them that dwell in the wilderness: they set up the towers thereof, they raised up the palaces thereof; and he brought it to ruin. 14: Howl, ye ships of Tarshish: for your strength is laid waste 15: And it shall come to pass in that day, that Tyre shall be forgotten seventy years, according to the days of one king: after the end of seventy years shall Tyre sing as an harlot. 16: Take an harp, go about the city, thou harlot that hast been forgotten; make sweet melody, sing many songs, that thou mayest be remembered. 17: And it shall come to pass after the end of seventy years, that the LORD will visit Tyre, and she shall turn to her hire, and shall commit fornication with all the kingdoms of the world upon the face of the earth.

Above we see the religion of Tyre called a virgin of the Kingdom.

Jer: 46:11: Go up into Gilead, and take balm, O virgin, the daughter of Egypt: in vain shalt thou use many medicines; for thou shalt not be cured.

Once again the religion of Egypt is referred to as a Virgin a woman.

Isa:47:1: Come down, and sit in the dust, O virgin daughter of Babylon, sit on the ground: there is no throne, O daughter of the Chaldeans: for thou shalt no more be called tender and delicate. 2: Take the millstones, and grind meal: uncover thy locks, make bare the leg, uncover the thigh, pass over the rivers. 3: Thy nakedness shall be uncovered, yea, thy shame shall be seen: I will take vengeance, and I will not meet thee as a man. 4: As for our redeemer, the LORD of hosts is his name, the Holy One of Israel. 5: Sit thou silent, and get thee into darkness, O daughter of the Chaldeans: for thou shalt no more be called, The lady of kingdoms.

Again we see the religion of Babylon referred to as a virgin a woman. We know it is the Spirituality of Babylon it is talking about the city is only the seat of the false religious belief.

12: Stand now with thine enchantments, and with the multitude of thy sorceries, wherein thou hast laboured from thy youth;

The word sorceries really means prophecy that was the whole purpose of the sorceries to obtain prophecy.

13: Thou art wearied in the multitude of thy counsels. Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators,

Jer:18:13: Therefore thus saith the LORD; Ask ye now among the heathen, who hath heard such things: the virgin of Israel hath done a very horrible thing.

Jer:31:4: Again I will build thee, and thou shalt be built, O virgin of Israel: thou shalt again be adorned with thy tabrets, and shalt go forth in the dances of them that make merry.

Here we see the faith of Judea called the Virgin of Israel.

So what evil thing did the Virgin of Judah/Israel do?????

Jer:7:30: For the children of Judah have done evil in my sight, saith the LORD: they have set their abominations in the house which is called by my name, to pollute it.

So here we see that the evil done by the Virgin of Judea is false worship. She played the harlot

It is clear that in prophetic scripture a Woman is used to describe a religion, in modern terms a Church. It is important to understand that in ancient times religions were all based around a city and a temple. So the Virgin of Babylon is the religion of Babylon the virgin of Jerusalem/ Israel is the religion of Israel all based in a city where people would come to worship.

So lets look at the symbolism of this woman

1: And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

So lets go through these symbols one by one what is meant by clothed with the sun.

Ps:84:11: For the LORD God is a sun and shield: the LORD will give grace and glory: no good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly.

So does this mean the woman is wearing God/sun. Is there another verse to back this is there other verses that tell us to wear God?

Eph:6:11: Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

Eph:6:13: Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

It is clear that in Eph: Paul is directly referencing Ps:84. So this woman / church (IE: religious belief) is wearing God as Armour and a shield.

What about the moon this woman is standing on. What does this mean What is this woman standing on?

Ps: 82:36: His seed shall endure forever, and his throne as the sun before me. 37: It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven.

Here we see God says the Promise will forever be shown as the symbol of the Moon.

Put this all together and what do you get?

You get a Religion/Church clothed in the Armour of God and Standing on the Promise of Salvation.

The Woman is the True Church / Faith /Religion of God. That is who brought forth the male Child. As she promised to the prophets and delivered through the power of the Holy Spirit.

All Power, Glory and Honour to the Father
 
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ebedmelech

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I hold the woman to be Israel and the basis is the dream of Joseph's dream which is Genesis 37:9-11
9 Now he had still another dream, and related it to his brothers, and said, “Lo, I have had still another dream; and behold, the sun and the moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me.”
10 He related it to his father and to his brothers; and his father rebuked him and said to him, “What is this dream that you have had? Shall I and your mother and your brothers actually come to bow ourselves down before you to the ground?”
11 His brothers were jealous of him, but his father kept the saying in mind.


So from that dream Joseph and his brothers are the 12 stars, Jacob is the sun, and Rachel is the moon...that's why I hold the woman to be the Israel.

Christ is the manchild! He is about to be born and Satan is trying to kill Him in Revelation 12:3, 4. That refers to Heord's attempt tho kill Jesus in Matthew 2:16-18.

Revelation 12:5, 6 is a snapshot of Jesus to His ascension! He is "caught up to God". :thumbsup: :amen:
 
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dfw69

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The woman cloth with the sun moon and 12 stars is Israel according to Joseph dream

The setting is future

The manchild is 144000 children of Israel

The dragon is satan

The manchild is saved by being raptured alive

The woman then goes though her travail

She flees to Petra

And those that did not escape ...a remnant .. He makes war with them though the beast and false prophet
 
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dfw69

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I hold the woman to be Israel and the basis is the dream of Joseph's dream which is Genesis 37:9-11
9 Now he had still another dream, and related it to his brothers, and said, “Lo, I have had still another dream; and behold, the sun and the moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me.”
10 He related it to his father and to his brothers; and his father rebuked him and said to him, “What is this dream that you have had? Shall I and your mother and your brothers actually come to bow ourselves down before you to the ground?”
11 His brothers were jealous of him, but his father kept the saying in mind.


So from that dream Joseph and his brothers are the 12 stars, Jacob is the sun, and Rachel is the moon...that's why I hold the woman to be the Israel.

We agree ... I did not think it was possible :)

Christ is the manchild! He is about to be born and Satan is trying to kill Him in Revelation 12:3, 4. That refers to Heord's attempt tho kill Jesus in Matthew 2:16-18.

Revelation 12:5, 6 is a snapshot of Jesus to His ascension! He is "caught up to God". :thumbsup: :amen:

The setting is future... So it's not Jesus.. he was not caught up (saved).....Jesus died and ascended by his own power... The manchild is 144000 tribes of Israel
 
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Just The Facts

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Hi Ebed

Well I congratulate you for basing your belief on Scripture and not the reasoning of men. It is so tiring to see people posting their belief or doctrine without an verses to back it.

I understand what you are saying. I have two problems with it though.

1. A woman in prophetic Scripture is ALWAYS a religious belief.
2. Israel did not bring forth Jesus we are repeatedly told the Holy Spirit did this.

I would agree that the woman is the true Religion of God and that Israel is the seat of that religion and God's Witness as stated in Isaiah. That Christians are not a separate church and that the Woman does not represent the Christian Church it represents the Virgin of Israel which we are grafted into.

When you see how the dragon chases the Woman /true Church of Israel (IE the Followers of Moses and Jesus) into the wilderness she is hidden from the devil during the whole Invasion and destruction of Jerusalem.

please note this point

15: And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

Here the Devil uses a flood to destroy the seat of the Virgin of Israel IE Jerusalem hoping to destroy the woman with it.

This is a direct reference to Daniel 9:

[26] And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off, and shall have nothing; and the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war; desolations are decreed.

Having failed to kill the woman in the flood the Devil rises the beast of rev 13 to persecute the Virgin of Israel IE the True Church of God.

Hope that helps explain what I believe Scripture is showing us.
 
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dfw69

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Hi Ebed

Well I congratulate you for basing your belief on Scripture and not the reasoning of men. It is so tiring to see people posting their belief or doctrine without an verses to back it.

I understand what you are saying. I have two problems with it though.

1. A woman in prophetic Scripture is ALWAYS a religious belief.
2. Israel did not bring forth Jesus we are repeatedly told the Holy Spirit did this.

I would agree that the woman is the true Religion of God and that Israel is the seat of that religion and God's Witness as stated in Isaiah. That Christians are not a separate church and that the Woman does not represent the Christian Church it represents the Virgin of Israel which we are grafted into.

Hope that helps explain what I believe Scripture is showing us.


Is reasoning wrong?... Like we can't use are brains...:)
 
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ebedmelech

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Hi Ebed

Well I congratulate you for basing your belief on Scripture and not the reasoning of men. It is so tiring to see people posting their belief or doctrine without an verses to back it.

I understand what you are saying. I have two problems with it though.

1. A woman in prophetic Scripture is ALWAYS a religious belief.
2. Israel did not bring forth Jesus we are repeatedly told the Holy Spirit did this.

I would agree that the woman is the true Religion of God and that Israel is the seat of that religion and God's Witness as stated in Isaiah. That Christians are not a separate church and that the Woman does not represent the Christian Church it represents the Virgin of Israel which we are grafted into.

Hope that helps explain what I believe Scripture is showing us.
I have to disagree. That is exactly what God says of Israel and Judah through Jeremiah 3 and Ezekiel 16.

Israel and Judah are typified as unfaithful wives (women). In Hosea Israel is who God married and Hosea is told to marry a harlot, which God goes on to typify Israel as a harlot wife.
 
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ebedmelech

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Hi Ebed

Who does Scripture tell us brought forth Jesus?
The woman...who is Israel Revelation 12:2:
2 and she was with child; and she *cried out, being in labor and in pain to give birth.
This is Israel...as Matthew 2:18 confirms as Herod sought to kill Jesus by killing the babies of Israel from 2 years old and under.

This is why Matthew 2:18 which is calling it the fulfillment of Jeremiah 31:15:
18 “A voice was heard in Ramah, Weeping and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children; And she refused to be comforted, Because they were no more.”

Once again Israel is the woman, which is Rachel.
 
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Just The Facts

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Hi Ebed

You have used scripture talking about the slaughter of the first born. You are using those verses out of context they do not deal with who brought forth the male child.

Please answer the Question who does scripture say brought forth Jesus? Is it Mary or Israel or is it the Holy Spirit?
 
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ebedmelech

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We agree ... I did not think it was possible :)



The setting is future... So it's not Jesus.. he was not caught up (saved).....Jesus died and ascended by his own power... The manchild is 144000 tribes of Israel
Really? Let's look at Acts 1:9
9 And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.
Now...I would think anyone can see being "caught up" and being "lifted up" are the same thing!

Just as Paul says we will be "caught up" to meet Christ when he comes.

Look at what Revelation 12;5 says of this Child (who can be none other than Jesus):
5 And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne.
Jesus ascended to take His seat at the right hand of the Father...Psalm 110!!!
 
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ebedmelech

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Hi Ebed

You have used scripture talking about the slaughter of the first born. You are using those verses out of context they do not deal with who brought forth the male child.

Please answer the Question who does scripture say brought forth Jesus? Is it Mary or Israel or is it the Holy Spirit?
I did not do that...what I did was point out the dragon attempting to kill the Child is Herod, moved to do so by Satan. Why did Herod do this? Because he was trying to kill Jesus...it's right there in the passage.

So again "Rachel weeping for her children"...is Rachel (the mother of Israel), and the children are being killed in an attempt to kill Jesus, which is why God tells Joseph in Matthew 2:13:
13 Now when they had gone, behold, an angel of the Lord *appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, “Get up! Take the Child and His mother and flee to Egypt, and remain there until I tell you; for Herod is going to search for the Child to destroy Him.”

So now, I ask you what Child are they trying to destroy?
 
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dfw69

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Really? Let's look at Acts 1:9
9 And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.
Now...I would think anyone can see being "caught up" and being "lifted up" are the same thing!

Just as Paul says we will be "caught up" to meet Christ when he comes.

Look at what Revelation 12;5 says of this Child (who can be none other than Jesus):
5 And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne.
Jesus ascended to take His seat at the right hand of the Father...Psalm 110!!!

Positive the manchild will also rule with a rod of iron with Christ
The manchild is also caught up
And seen in heaven
The setting is future
Jesus did not fulfill rev 12
Rev 12 takes place after the churches
Yep
 
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ebedmelech

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Positive the manchild will also rule with a rod of iron with Christ
The manchild is also caught up
And seen in heaven
The setting is future
Jesus did not fulfill rev 12
Rev 12 takes place after the churches
Yep
No it doesn't. What Revelation 12 does Identify Israel historically to show that the Messiah did come through Israel.

If you think as you read after Revelation you find in Revelation 12:7-12 you can see this happening when Christ conquers Satan at the cross.

Read it and think about it.
 
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dfw69

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No it doesn't. What Revelation 12 does Identify Israel historically to show that the Messiah did come through Israel.

If you think as you read after Revelation you find in Revelation 12:7-12 you can see this happening when Christ conquers Satan at the cross.

Read it and think about it.

You implying I'm not thinking as I read.. Is not cool.. Bro
 
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Just The Facts

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Hi Ebed

I am not denying they are trying to Kill Jesus. I said you are using the verse out of context.

I asked a very simple question which you are avoiding like the plague. I assume because you well know a county can not bring forth a baby.

So once again who does scripture say brought forth Jesus. Try to answer the question and not avoid answering it by trying to change the subject.

Maybe I am not clear enough

18: Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit.

So who does scripture say brought forth Jesus?
 
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coraline

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Hi Ebed

I am not denying they are trying to Kill Jesus. I said you are using the verse out of context.

I asked a very simple question which you are avoiding like the plague. I assume because you well know a county can not bring forth a baby.

So once again who does scripture say brought forth Jesus. Try to answer the question and not avoid answering it by trying to change the subject.

Maybe I am not clear enough

18: Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit.

So who does scripture say brought forth Jesus?

God can bring forth ANYTHING!

The woman was Israel. "Salvation is of the Jews"

Israel was God's "wife" in the OT readings (under the law times)
 
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ebedmelech

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Hi Ebed

I am not denying they are trying to Kill Jesus. I said you are using the verse out of context.

I asked a very simple question which you are avoiding like the plague. I assume because you well know a county can not bring forth a baby.
No. I didn't avoid anything. You have to get "out of the box" and realize a country is made of people...in this case that country/people is Israel from who Messiah comes. As when God send prophets to speak to Israel (a people).

So you see there's no avoiding of anything, except for you to expand on what a country consists of...which again is people.
So once again who does scripture say brought forth Jesus. Try to answer the question and not avoid answering it by trying to change the subject.

Maybe I am not clear enough

18: Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit.

So who does scripture say brought forth Jesus?
You're clear enough but you have to allow the scriptures to speak as they will. Now...you said a country cannot bring forth a child but why is it that God calls Israel "Jacob"? Because a nation of people came from the descendants of the man Jacob.

In the same way you must allow for God to say a nation brings forth a child. For instance Isaiah 41;14
14 “Do not fear, you worm Jacob, you men of Israel; I will help you,” declares the Lord, “and your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel.

If you're going to be that narrow, how can Jesus be the "Holy one of Israel", which naturally means he came forth from Israel...as in the genealogy of Jesus...who in the genealogy is not of Israel.

You must go where scripture goes and the "Holy One of Israel" comes OUT OF ISRAEL...therefore a nation can very well bring forth a child.
 
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Just The Facts

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Hi Ebed

Wow you are dancing. Does or does it not say the Holy Spirit brought forth Jesus.

It is not that I am using a narrow understanding. What I am doing is not putting any of my own understanding on what is being said. I am only trusting what Scripture says in a very direct straight forward way.

That is the difference between the Word of God and the Doctrine of Men.

The Leaders of Jesus' day could not understand why Jesus said they were not following Torah. He said they had added their own meaning to it. They could not see the difference between the plain words of God and their interpretation of God's word. In their eyes their "understanding" was what God "Meant"

Try this, do not accept anything other then what is printed in plain language.... does the plainly written verses agree with your belief or contradict your belief?




Hi Coraline

Please post verses so I can show you how you have been taught to see these verses out of Context.

I am not denying that these verses exist but I think if you go and read everything on each side of the verse you will see it is always said in a spiritual sense.

IE: Israel worship of the One True God makes her a good Virgin a good woman and when she worships other Gods she is a harlot. When the term wife or virgin is used it is always about the religion/worship not the land or the people.

Jer:18:13: Therefore thus saith the LORD; Ask ye now among the heathen, who hath heard such things: the virgin of Israel hath done a very horrible thing.

Who is the Virgin of Israel it can't be Israel because it is of Israel. It is the Church/ Faith / represented by the City IE: Jerusalem and the worship in the Temple.

Jer:7:30: For the children of Judah have done evil in my sight, saith the LORD: they have set their abominations in the house which is called by my name, to pollute it.

Notice the Children/people are not called the wife. and What the Virgin did is to worship another god by placing its image in the Temple. It is always about the worship/religion/faith. ALWAYS
 
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