When Committed Christians are Compared to ISIS

[nomadictheist]

Ah, so when WE explain away the questionable bits of our religion, that's OK, but when THEY do it, they're lying. Gotcha.

I would again invite you to point me to the "questionable bits" about the new covenant under the blood of Christ.

(Again, I would remind you that this doesn't concern the treatment of the Israelites in the war. This is explained by the circumstances surrounding it and are very clear and explicit instructions absolutely and clearly limited to that time. No such limitations exist in the text of the Quran).

 

[dgiharris]

ISIS are the new Nazis, and everyone on all sides of whatever fence has used a good ol' Nazi comparison to really make a point.

Bush, Obama, etc are compared to Nazis and communism and "whatever" all the time.

Such comparisons serve to hit an emotional nerve. Once I've gotten you all riled up, then I don't need data, logic, or facts, I can lead you around by the nose by stroking your emotional nerve centers.

Such techniques have long been known to work on the sheeple.

 

[Armoured]

I would again invite you to point me to the "questionable bits" about the new covenant under the blood of Christ.

(Again, I would remind you that this doesn't concern the treatment of the Israelites in the war. This is explained by the circumstances surrounding it and are very clear and explicit instructions absolutely and clearly limited to that time. No such limitations exist in the text of the Quran).

Convenient.

 

[nomadictheist]

Convenient.

Maybe not convenient for you or Islamists, but it is the truth. I've taken the time to do research. To read entire passages of the Quran and other documents. Not because I wanted "convenience." Because I wanted to know the truth. The truth is what matters to me - the truth of what the Bible says, the truth of what the Quran says, and the truth about God and eternal life. It may not always be "convenient," but God has shown us the truth. And the truth about the Quran can be read in its pages.

 

[Armoured]

And the truth about the Quran can be read in its pages.

As opposed to the Bible, obviously.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I don't want to bring Kanye back down here, but you are indeed saying "At least we're not at the same level as their terrorists". You're trying to bring Christians to the moral high ground because your terrorists don't make people as afraid.

Well, there's no "we're" about it, I'm an atheist so I'm not a member of any religious organization, extremist or otherwise.

But, once again I'll reiterate, I'm not trying to give anyone the perceived moral high ground, just simply pointing out the realities that exist that explain why Islamic terrorism is scaring people more than Christian terrorism.

I think it's a bit disingenuous for people to act as if they can't understand why ISIS is scarier (or viewed as "worse") than Army of God.

 

[nomadictheist]

As opposed to the Bible, obviously.

No. Not as opposed to the bible. But you're clearly all about ignoring everything an opposing viewpoint says and dismissing it.

The truth that God has given us is contained in the Bible.

Any time you're ready to say anything intelligent about this matter I'm ready to listen

 

[Armoured]

No. Not as opposed to the bible. But you're clearly all about ignoring everything an opposing viewpoint says and dismissing it.

The truth that God has given us is contained in the Bible.

Any time you're ready to say anything intelligent about this matter I'm ready to listen

As long as it excuses the blatant double standard of Christians who condemn the Koran while making excuses for the Bible. Yes, I've played this game before.

 

[SnowyMacie]

Not true.

It is written in the Quran that the Muslim's purpose is to gain control of the countries in which they live, use that control to enact Muslim law, including making Muslim the only religion, and kill infidels - or unbelievers. This includes graphic instructions such as severing their heads and their fingertips.

It is also written in the Quran that those who refrain from fighting and seek to live at peace are not worthy of being called "believers." That it is the duty of every Muslim to participate in the fight against the infidels.

It is written in the Bible that Christians are to love their enemies and do good to those who hate them. To live peaceably with everyone as much as possible, to never repay evil for evil...

It is written in the Bible that anyone who wants honor in the Kingdom of Heaven must become a servant. That a leader in God's church must not lord it over others or seek violence with them. That humility and love are to be the marks of a true believer.

So ISIS is following the teachings of the Islam faith. This makes them true Muslim organizations.

And groups like "Army of God" are acting contrary to the teachings of the Christian faith. This makes them non-Christian organizations.

1) The word "Infidel" in the Qu'ran refers to idolaters, oppressors, terrorists, etc., not all non-Muslims. That is what mainstream Islamic scholarship teaches.

2) The "chapter" (I forgot what their actually called) in the Qu'ran that has the infamous verse about killing infidels doesn't actually say that, and also written when early Muslims were facibg severe persecution in Medina.

3) Almost every verse in the Qu'ran about violence, when taken in context, is only talking about self-defense. Offensive violence is not any way promoted in the Qu'ran.

There is nothing rational about liberals. Liberalism is not a political
ideal, but a theology. Like many theologies, if you insult their god,
they will attack in whatever way they are disposed. That can be
words or violence.

Who is their deity? Like the ancient Romans, they have a pantheon:
Government, nature, man; pretty much anything in opposition to God.

What does this liberalism have to do with this conversation at all?

 

[nomadictheist]

As long as it excuses the blatant double standard of Christians who condemn the Koran while making excuses for the Bible. Yes, I've played this game before.

I'm not using double standards. You have yet to show any. You just claim they're there without evidence.

Tell me, how much of the Quran have you read?

 

[Smidlee]

I'm not using double standards. You have yet to show any. You just claim they're there without evidence.

Tell me, how much of the Quran have you read?

Here is an atheist view on history between the Muslims vs Christians. (I read other sources making some of the same points) I wonder which parts do those who defends Islam disagree with in this video.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

As long as it excuses the blatant double standard of Christians who condemn the Koran while making excuses for the Bible. Yes, I've played this game before.

Well, there are some key differences pertaining to the books that are worth noting...

While both stories (and as an Atheist, I feel they're just stories) contain large amount of violence and things that I would find morally reprehensible, the key difference is the protagonists (or Heroes) of each story. Those being Jesus and Mohammad.

Sam Harris addresses a bit of that on his interview with Cenk (and it's something I've been saying for a while now). ...and it's worth noting that Sam Harris is far-left liberal atheist so he's not arguing his point based on any sort of Christian/Republican/Right-wing bias.
His interview starts at the 2 minute mark:

The Jesus character of the story is someone I'd probably hang out with in real life...Mohammad, not so much.

 

[Smidlee]

Well, there are some key differences pertaining to the books that are worth noting...

While both stories (and as an Atheist, I feel they're just stories) contain large amount of violence and things that I would find morally reprehensible, the key difference is the protagonists (or Heroes) of each story. Those being Jesus and Mohammad.

Sam Harris addresses a bit of that on his interview with Cenk (and it's something I've been saying for a while now). ...and it's worth noting that Sam Harris is far-left liberal atheist so he's not arguing his point based on any sort of Christian/Republican/Right-wing bias.
His interview starts at the 2 minute mark:

The Jesus character of the story is someone I'd probably hang out with in real life...Mohammad, not so much.

Sam Harris said the OT is worst because Samuel told Saul to finally destroy the Amalekites? Have you read the OT at all to know who the Amalekites were?
Read what Samuel said to Agag the king of Amalekites in Samuel 15:33 "And Samuel said " As thy sword hath made women childless, so shall thy mother be childless among women." God told Moses he would eventually put the end of Amalekites.
Amalekites were close to what ISIS is today.

 

[pat34lee]

Uh-huh. Convenient.

Surprising attitude for one calling themself Catholic or Christian.

 

[FanthatSpark]

A gate of hell has no peace Matthew 16:18 and "sows" no peace. A person "thinks" they are Christian in their bombastic (pun intended) activity that causes harm to another. Ignored are these verses Luke 9:54-56 , 1 John 4:1. Any person that adopts a mankind (Gate of hell) ideology that stems from darkness like hate then the bible as a whole is hypocritical to any Christian that follows a gate of hell, even self. When one listens to the point of belief in another human a few verses pop up immediately , Proverbs 3:5 , John 5:39-40 , Matthew 22:37-39 , <-- there is order to that in first love hierarchy yet it is ignored in a persons loved ones come first so it changes the verses around we love gates of hell firstly, even self. These people, follow social custom and this verse is ignored Matthew 6:24 . Its not just "money" its any master from society (gate of hell) to self when these drive one to harm another and they claim Christ in their action. This leads non believers or scripturally immature people and Sunday pew sitters in battles of judgment not of ???


Peace.

Thanks for letting me teach to myself in my own brokenness.

 

[pat34lee]

What does this liberalism have to do with this conversation at all?

You would have to read the post to which I was responding.
http://www.christianforums.com/thre...s-are-compared-to-isis.7924064/#post-69019988