When Committed Christians are Compared to ISIS

Vylo

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See, Vylo? You just compared christians to ISIS. Of course, christians came out favorably, but you compared, and that is what was evil.
I can compare us Atheists too, with the communist purges. We hold the high score when it comes to pure number genocide (but Gengis Khan beats everyone when it comes to % of world population).

Too much religious vehemence, even if it is against religion, is dangerous. It creates more woe than its worth. Lead by example, and people will follow. That seems to be the example most Christians, Atheists, and many other religious beliefs follow today.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Is it not the "at least I'm only shoplifting" schtick?

Not at all...

It's simply pointing degrees and levels of terrorism.

Typically what happens in conversations is this.
Someone from the right wing will bring up Islamic terrorism, and as a rebuttal, someone from the left wing will bring up groups like the Army of God.

Now, if the point of bringing it up is to say that "Christianity has the potential to produce terrorism too", then it's a completely valid rebuttal.
However, if the point is to try to make the claim that "Christian terrorism is just as big of a problem in the world today as Islamic terrorism", then it's an illogical rebuttal.

While it's a fact that the Army of God is a terrorist organization that has spilled blood and blown stuff up in the name of their cause, nobody is fleeing the US to get away from them, so clearly they're not sparking the same kind of fear in people as ISIS is. If you're willing to uproot your family and move to another country out of fear...that means you're pretty darn afraid. Thus far, anti-abortion extremists haven't sparked that kind of fear in people.

Now, if 20,000 of them started roaming the country and creating mass havoc, then they'd be right in the same category as ISIS.
 
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nomadictheist

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In all fairness, you guys did just shoot up a Planned Parenthood several weeks ago, and have a history of blowing up abortion clinics, and assassinating doctors. Those are all terrorist acts. ISIS is a terrorist group. Surely you see the connection.
evidence please? I don't believe any church or other Christian organization claims to sanction the act of one individual who, so far as we know, doesn't even adhere to the faith...

I have noticed this hatred of the educated among Christians lately.
I haven't. I've just noticed an unwillingness to blindly accept that everything that scientists extrapolate about the past is accurate. A far cry from hatred.

We must stand up and utterly destroy the infede... Too much. That's too much.

So perhaps you would like to explain how repaying evil with good, loving those who hate you, and speaking the truth is "destroying the infidel"?

The biggest difference between Christianity and Islam...

A Christian who lives out the teachings of the Christian faith will not harm anybody, including their enemies. They will disagree with them. They will attempt to tell them about Jesus. But they will never kill non-converters. They won't beat up on or persecute non-believers. They will attempt to show love to all people, even those who hate and harm them. While they won't participate in anything contrary to the gospel, they will not attempt to make the laws of their faith into the laws of the land.

An Islamist who lives out the teachings of the Muslim faith will make it their aim to seize control of whatever country they live in. Once in control, they will make Islam a required religion, and kill the "infidels" or anybody who refuses to convert. They will enact muslim laws as the laws of the country. There will be no freedom for anybody to choose their own belief system. And, again, they will execute those who refuse to comply.

So, to sum it up, in Christianity, it's a good thing to live according to the teachings of the faith - of Jesus, the prophets, and the apostles. In Islam, it's a bad thing to live according to the teachings of the faith.

And, just for redundancy, "Christians" who shoot up their enemies, execute or declare a "holy war" against their enemies, or otherwise seek to kill or harm their enemies are living contrary to the teachings of their faith. Therefore, they cannot be called "Christians" in practice. Islamists who shoot up their enemies, execute or declare a "holy war" against their enemies, or otherwise seek to kill or harm their enemies are living according to the teachings of their faith. Therefore, they can be called true Islamists in practice.
 
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nomadictheist

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So, in conclusion Army of God = good; ISIS = bad.

kanye.png


Kanye Says:
"Yo, Army of God, I'm really happy for you, I'ma let you finish, but ISIS is one of the evilest terrorist groups of all time! One of the evilest of all time! Army of God is baby evil and all, but ISIS does more beheadings by coffee break than Army of God does all day! That's cold evil. Army of God is just little bitty evil. That's why Christians are good, and Muslims are bad!"

Army of God is not a Christian organization. They simply take a name that doesn't belong to them.

If they were a Christian organization, they wouldn't sanction violence against other people. They wouldn't advocate breaking the law of the land (unless the law of the land explicitly forbade telling people about Jesus or assembling for religious purposes). And they certainly wouldn't advocate breaking the law of God.

Where Islam terrorist organizations are actually following the Islamic faith, "Christian" terrorist organizations are rejecting the Christian faith. Therefore, they are not true Christian organizations.
 
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SnowyMacie

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evidence please? I don't believe any church or other Christian organization claims to sanction the act of one individual who, so far as we know, doesn't even adhere to the faith...


I haven't. I've just noticed an unwillingness to blindly accept that everything that scientists extrapolate about the past is accurate. A far cry from hatred.



So perhaps you would like to explain how repaying evil with good, loving those who hate you, and speaking the truth is "destroying the infidel"?

The biggest difference between Christianity and Islam...

A Christian who lives out the teachings of the Christian faith will not harm anybody, including their enemies. They will disagree with them. They will attempt to tell them about Jesus. But they will never kill non-converters. They won't beat up on or persecute non-believers. They will attempt to show love to all people, even those who hate and harm them. While they won't participate in anything contrary to the gospel, they will not attempt to make the laws of their faith into the laws of the land.

An Islamist who lives out the teachings of the Muslim faith will make it their aim to seize control of whatever country they live in. Once in control, they will make Islam a required religion, and kill the "infidels" or anybody who refuses to convert. They will enact muslim laws as the laws of the country. There will be no freedom for anybody to choose their own belief system. And, again, they will execute those who refuse to comply.

So, to sum it up, in Christianity, it's a good thing to live according to the teachings of the faith - of Jesus, the prophets, and the apostles. In Islam, it's a bad thing to live according to the teachings of the faith.

And, just for redundancy, "Christians" who shoot up their enemies, execute or declare a "holy war" against their enemies, or otherwise seek to kill or harm their enemies are living contrary to the teachings of their faith. Therefore, they cannot be called "Christians" in practice. Islamists who shoot up their enemies, execute or declare a "holy war" against their enemies, or otherwise seek to kill or harm their enemies are living according to the teachings of their faith. Therefore, they can be called true Islamists in practice.

Army of God is not a Christian organization. They simply take a name that doesn't belong to them.

If they were a Christian organization, they wouldn't sanction violence against other people. They wouldn't advocate breaking the law of the land (unless the law of the land explicitly forbade telling people about Jesus or assembling for religious purposes). And they certainly wouldn't advocate breaking the law of God.

Where Islam terrorist organizations are actually following the Islamic faith, "Christian" terrorist organizations are rejecting the Christian faith. Therefore, they are not true Christian organizations.


Regardless of whether or not they are true Christian organizations doesn't change the fact there are terrorists and terrorist organizations that commit their act in the name of Christianity. However, it's vital to note Christian terrorist organizations are as Christian as ISIS or Al-Quada is Muslim.
 
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JGG

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Not at all...

It's simply pointing degrees and levels of terrorism.

Typically what happens in conversations is this.
Someone from the right wing will bring up Islamic terrorism, and as a rebuttal, someone from the left wing will bring up groups like the Army of God.

Now, if the point of bringing it up is to say that "Christianity has the potential to produce terrorism too", then it's a completely valid rebuttal.
However, if the point is to try to make the claim that "Christian terrorism is just as big of a problem in the world today as Islamic terrorism", then it's an illogical rebuttal.

While it's a fact that the Army of God is a terrorist organization that has spilled blood and blown stuff up in the name of their cause, nobody is fleeing the US to get away from them, so clearly they're not sparking the same kind of fear in people as ISIS is. If you're willing to uproot your family and move to another country out of fear...that means you're pretty darn afraid. Thus far, anti-abortion extremists haven't sparked that kind of fear in people.

Now, if 20,000 of them started roaming the country and creating mass havoc, then they'd be right in the same category as ISIS.

I don't want to bring Kanye back down here, but you are indeed saying "At least we're not at the same level as their terrorists". You're trying to bring Christians to the moral high ground because your terrorists don't make people as afraid.
 
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HannahT

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Extremists are the problem, whether they are Muslims or Christians or any other faith or no faith at all. ISIS is the extremist organization that is most in the news now but it is not the only extremist organization out there. None of these extremist organizations represent more than a tiny fraction of their respective faiths.

Those who think that Christian extremists who go after abortion clinics are somehow less culpible because they think abortion is bad are wrong. No one has any right to take such action, two wrongs do not make a right. The recent shooting in Colorado resulted in the deaths of three innocent people, none of whom worked for the clinic.

Yes, it is the extremists. I do find it rather humorous that people will tell you not to label all people in a certain faith group the same, they are not all terrorist, etc. Then turn around and do just that to another group. It can be a political party, Christians or another faith group, etc. They don't see the contradiction or possible bigotry on their own part.

It's not only the groups of people on the internet, or the groups of people that smile for the media while they say it - its also the politicians that do this. It's rather wild how hypocritical people can be today, and then respond by lol saying WELL so and so said THIS or DID that! (scratches head) As if acting the same is somehow different.

I'm just thankful we have friends from just about every background, and we don't have to present ourselves like this in order to debate things. Yes, there are aspects we disagree on but we agree on more things than not. If people would drop this group think aspect or this 'us against them' junk they might be surprised what they have in common today too. Sadly, people have lost that ability for some reason.
 
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nomadictheist

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Regardless of whether or not they are true Christian organizations doesn't change the fact there are terrorists and terrorist organizations that commit their act in the name of Christianity. However, it's vital to note Christian terrorist organizations are as Christian as ISIS or Al-Quada is Muslim.
Not true.

It is written in the Quran that the Muslim's purpose is to gain control of the countries in which they live, use that control to enact Muslim law, including making Muslim the only religion, and kill infidels - or unbelievers. This includes graphic instructions such as severing their heads and their fingertips.

It is also written in the Quran that those who refrain from fighting and seek to live at peace are not worthy of being called "believers." That it is the duty of every Muslim to participate in the fight against the infidels.

It is written in the Bible that Christians are to love their enemies and do good to those who hate them. To live peaceably with everyone as much as possible, to never repay evil for evil...

It is written in the Bible that anyone who wants honor in the Kingdom of Heaven must become a servant. That a leader in God's church must not lord it over others or seek violence with them. That humility and love are to be the marks of a true believer.

So ISIS is following the teachings of the Islam faith. This makes them true Muslim organizations.

And groups like "Army of God" are acting contrary to the teachings of the Christian faith. This makes them non-Christian organizations.
 
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Not true.

It is written in the Quran that the Muslim's purpose is to gain control of the countries in which they live, use that control to enact Muslim law, including making Muslim the only religion, and kill infidels - or unbelievers. This includes graphic instructions such as severing their heads and their fingertips.

It is also written in the Quran that those who refrain from fighting and seek to live at peace are not worthy of being called "believers." That it is the duty of every Muslim to participate in the fight against the infidels.

Exactly where are those verses in the Quran? I would like to read them in context.

It is written in the Bible that Christians are to love their enemies and do good to those who hate them. To live peaceably with everyone as much as possible, to never repay evil for evil...

It is written in the Bible that anyone who wants honor in the Kingdom of Heaven must become a servant. That a leader in God's church must not lord it over others or seek violence with them. That humility and love are to be the marks of a true believer.

And I could point to verses that say otherwise.

So ISIS is following the teachings of the Islam faith. This makes them true Muslim organizations.

So why have so many of their victims have been Muslims?

And groups like "Army of God" are acting contrary to the teachings of the Christian faith. This makes them non-Christian organizations.

They would say otherwise.
 
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Armoured

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In all fairness, you guys did just shoot up a Planned Parenthood several weeks ago, and have a history of blowing up abortion clinics, and assassinating doctors. Those are all terrorist acts. ISIS is a terrorist group. Surely you see the connection.



Those sound a bit hysterical.



Yes.



Wait, what?



I have noticed this hatred of the educated among Christians lately.



We must stand up and utterly destroy the infede... Too much. That's too much.
No True Scotsman! Tu Quoque! Shifting The Goalposts!
 
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nomadictheist

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Exactly where are those verses in the Quran? I would like to read them in context.
Quran 9 would be a good place to start (all of it)

And then Quran 17, of particular interest are verses 10-20, with verse 16 being of prominent interest (that verse allows them to pass judgment on a town that refuses to "repent" of misdeeds and destroy it).

There are many other verses and passages, but these serve as a good starting point.

And I could point to verses that say otherwise.
To Christians? I doubt it. You would, no doubt, point to the Old Testament where God commanded the Israelites to drive out the nations from their land (this was during that historical dispensation). But you will find no such commandments in the teachings of Jesus for His disciples.

So why have so many of their victims have been Muslins?

Because the Quran also says that Muslims who refuse to live according to the teachings of Islam are to be executed.

They would say otherwise.

That doesn't matter. I could say I'm a dragonfly; that doesn't make it true.

Calling yourself a Christian doesn't make you a Christian. It is believing in Jesus, the Messiah and living according to the teachings of Jesus, the Messiah that makes you a Christian.
 
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Armoured

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Not true.

It is written in the Quran that the Muslim's purpose is to gain control of the countries in which they live, use that control to enact Muslim law, including making Muslim the only religion, and kill infidels - or unbelievers. This includes graphic instructions such as severing their heads and their fingertips.

It is also written in the Quran that those who refrain from fighting and seek to live at peace are not worthy of being called "believers." That it is the duty of every Muslim to participate in the fight against the infidels.

It is written in the Bible that Christians are to love their enemies and do good to those who hate them. To live peaceably with everyone as much as possible, to never repay evil for evil...

It is written in the Bible that anyone who wants honor in the Kingdom of Heaven must become a servant. That a leader in God's church must not lord it over others or seek violence with them. That humility and love are to be the marks of a true believer.

So ISIS is following the teachings of the Islam faith. This makes them true Muslim organizations.

And groups like "Army of God" are acting contrary to the teachings of the Christian faith. This makes them non-Christian organizations.
And you've read the Koran, have you?
 
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Armoured

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Quran 9 would be a good place to start (all of it)

And then Quran 17, of particular interest are verses 10-20, with verse 16 being of prominent interest (that verse allows them to pass judgment on a town that refuses to "repent" of misdeeds and destroy it).

There are many other verses and passages, but these serve as a good starting point.


To Christians? I doubt it. You would, no doubt, point to the Old Testament where God commanded the Israelites to drive out the nations from their land (this was during that historical dispensation). But you will find no such commandments in the teachings of Jesus for His disciples.



Because the Quran also says that Muslims who refuse to live according to the teachings of Islam are to be executed.



That doesn't matter. I could say I'm a dragonfly; that doesn't make it true.

Calling yourself a Christian doesn't make you a Christian. It is believing in Jesus, the Messiah and living according to the teachings of Jesus, the Messiah that makes you a Christian.
And I suppose the questionable sounding bits of the Bible are different because... reasons.
 
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And I suppose the questionable sounding bits of the Bible are different because... reasons.

Much of the bible is plain history, good and bad. It is not always
telling people what to do, but what real people did. Other parts,
such as the wars in Israel, are specific judgments on the tribes
living there.
 
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Armoured

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Much of the bible is plain history, good and bad. It is not always
telling people what to do, but what real people did. Other parts,
such as the wars in Israel, are specific judgments on the tribes
living there.
Uh-huh. Convenient.
 
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nomadictheist

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And you've read the Koran, have you?
Much of the Quran, yes. I tend to prefer to verify what I can for myself rather than blindly accepting what other people tell me. I know this may come as a shock to you, but it's quite possible that people may not be entirely honest about what their religion says, especially if it's not agreeable to others.
 
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nomadictheist

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And I suppose the questionable sounding bits of the Bible are different because... reasons.
Point me to the questionable sounding instructions to Christians (disciples of Jesus, under the new covenant) and I will answer. Otherwise, I must assume that you're talking about the nation of Israel and their dealings with their enemies.

So far, for all the people who make this statement, not a one of them has been able to point me to any...
 
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Armoured

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Much of the Quran, yes. I tend to prefer to verify what I can for myself rather than blindly accepting what other people tell me. I know this may come as a shock to you, but it's quite possible that people may not be entirely honest about what their religion says, especially if it's not agreeable to others.
Ah, so when WE explain away the questionable bits of our religion, that's OK, but when THEY do it, they're lying. Gotcha.
 
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