What is the purpose of Jesus in the Islam?

[SanFrank]

The main theological differences we have with Islam and Judaism is our belief in the Trinity, the Divinity of Christ, the atoning sacrifice of Christ on the Cross, and his resurrection. Catholicism recognizes these differences but does not demonize Islam and Judaism on account of these differences. Instead, Catholicism recognizes that--while we have differences--all three religions worship the God of Abraham.

With all respect, you ignored the topic that was being developed in prior posts.

If that was too tough, lets try something else.


The qur'an never distinguishes the race of peoples that are afflicted by 'allah's' judgement. Other than the 'people of the book' and 'jews' which refer categorically to the believers of a religion, no mention is made of their race either. I noticed that the mention of any lineage stops at moses, abraham, isaac and ishmael.


This is incredibly distinct from the Bible. In both the OT and NT, the race (or clan or certain offspring) is referred to by name when judged. For example, muhammad's own forefathers are oftentimes mentioned. By name, the children of ishmael such as Nebaioth, Kedar, Dumah and the descendants of Esau are oftentimes judged simply for having attacked israel.


Looking at this discrepancy logically, the question is posed; if the same god wrote them, how is it he changed the subject matter of his narration? If it is the same god, he first put the race of ishmael in a terrible light (OT) and proceeded to put israel in a terrible light (qur'an); a 360 degree turnabout. How do you explain this?

 

[steve_bakr]

With all respect, you ignored the topic that was being developed in prior posts.

If that was too tough, lets try something else.

The qur'an never distinguishes the race of peoples that are afflicted by 'allah's' judgement. Other than the 'people of the book' and 'jews' which refer categorically to the believers of a religion, no mention is made of their race either. I noticed that the mention of any lineage stops at moses, abraham, isaac and ishmael.

This is incredibly distinct from the Bible. In both the OT and NT, the race (or clan or certain offspring) is referred to by name when judged. For example, muhammad's own forefathers are oftentimes mentioned. By name, the children of ishmael such as Nebaioth, Kedar, Dumah and the descendants of Esau are oftentimes judged simply for having attacked israel.

Looking at this discrepancy logically, the question is posed; if the same god wrote them, how is it he changed the subject matter of his narration? If it is the same god, he first put the race of ishmael in a terrible light (OT) and proceeded to put israel in a terrible light (qur'an); a 360 degree turnabout. How do you explain this?

I don't have an explanation for any discrepancies between the Holy Books of the World, let alone Bible and Quran. But I can tell you that there are also parallels in which the people of Israel are the protaganists, such as the Quran's oft-repeated telling of the story of Moses and Pharoah.

Religion is influenced by many factors, such as history, culture, and personality, so that different cultures are bound to see the Infinite through differing lenses. It is not that God is different it is that the people are different.

 

[Avelina777]

I don't have an explanation for any discrepancies between the Holy Books of the World, let alone Bible and Quran. But I can tell you that there are also parallels in which the people of Israel are the protaganists, such as the Quran's oft-repeated telling of the story of Moses and Pharoah.

God promised the Jews their land back and that they would never lose it again that is why they have Israel and Jerusalem, so deal with that.

 

[SanFrank]

I don't have an explanation for any discrepancies between the Holy Books of the World, let alone Bible and Quran. But I can tell you that there are also parallels in which the people of Israel are the protaganists, such as the Quran's oft-repeated telling of the story of Moses and Pharoah.

Religion is influenced by many factors, such as history, culture, and personality, so that different cultures are bound to see the Infinite through differing lenses. It is not that God is different it is that the people are different.

I'm glad you looked at this objectively and see the distinct differences between the two scriptures in its dealings with races (peoples). With that said, I beg to differ on the authorship of those scriptures (bible and qur'an). Considering the above discrepency and the manner in which one scripture demands submission while the other demands faith, the authors are clearly not the same. Religions may be influenced by its followers, but scriptures are not (according to its adherents).

 

[steve_bakr]

I'm glad you looked at this objectively and see the distinct differences between the two scriptures in its dealings with races (peoples). With that said, I beg to differ on the authorship of those scriptures (bible and qur'an). Considering the above discrepency and the manner in which one scripture demands submission while the other demands faith, the authors are clearly not the same. Religions may be influenced by its followers, but scriptures are not (according to its adherents).

I respect that you have explained your point of view very well.

 

[peaceful soul]

originally posted by steve_bakr

I don't have an explanation for any discrepancies between the Holy Books of the World, let alone Bible and Quran.

I would hope that you would realize that they have different authors.

But I can tell you that there are also parallels in which the people of Israel are the protaganists, such as the Quran's oft-repeated telling of the story of Moses and Pharoah.

That is easy to explain since Mohammad had some kind of contact with Jews and Christians; so, he could know certain things, even if not correctly.

The problem with making parallels is that they are often superficial and lead an audience to believe that two pieces of literature have a common source and are related when they are not. It makes it easy for very ignorant people to believe that the Bible and Qu'ran, for example, are the same or have the same messages, or other things like that.

Religion is influenced by many factors, such as history, culture, and personality, so that different cultures are bound to see the Infinite through differing lenses. It is not that God is different it is that the people are different.

That presumes that they see the same thing. The Bible claims the opposite. They may try to seek out the void that God placed in them, but that doesn't mean that they seek to fill that void in the same way and are actually pointing to God. The Holy Spirit reveals God; so, saying that other religions see God through different lenses is like claiming that having cataracts has the same effect as wearing foggy lenses. The point would be that they both impair vision but have no true connection to each other.

 

[Avelina777]

originally posted by steve_bakr

I would hope that you would realize that they have different authors.

That is easy to explain since Mohammad had some kind of contact with Jews and Christians; so, he could know certain things, even if not correctly.

The problem with making parallels is that they are often superficial and lead an audience to believe that two pieces of literature have a common source and are related when they are not. It makes it easy for very ignorant people to believe that the Bible and Qu'ran, for example, are the same or have the same messages, or other things like that.

That presumes that they see the same thing. The Bible claims the opposite. They may try to seek out the void that God placed in them, but that doesn't mean that they seek to fill that void in the same way and are actually pointing to God. The Holy Spirit reveals God; so, saying that other religions see God through different lenses is like claiming that having cataracts has the same effect as wearing foggy lenses. The point would be that they both impair vision but have no true connection to each other.

Exactly!! Awesome!!

 

[peaceful soul]

The purpose of Jesus in Islam is to polemicize against the historical Jesus found in the Bible, the primary source. Jesus never does anything else in the Qu'ran but make claims that mostly contradict the Bible. It is a useful tool to deceive people into thinking that since Jesus is also mentioned in the Qu'ran, then the Qu'ran has some credibility.

 

[Avelina777]

The purpose of Jesus in Islam is to polemicize against the historical Jesus found in the Bible, he primary source. Jesus never does anything else in the Qu'ran but make claims that mostly contradict the Bible. It is a useful tool to deceive people into thinking that since Jesus is also mentioned in the Qu'ran, then the Qu'ran has some credibility.

That is exactly correct!!!

 

[steve_bakr]

The purpose of Jesus in Islam is to polemicize against the historical Jesus found in the Bible, he primary source. Jesus never does anything else in the Qu'ran but make claims that mostly contradict the Bible. It is a useful tool to deceive people into thinking that since Jesus is also mentioned in the Qu'ran, then the Qu'ran has some credibility.

I don't ascribe a dark or demonically anti-Christian motive to the authorship of the Quran and neither does the Catholic Church. The Quran is simply dealing with a different set of theological developments in the Arab culture. The Quran portrays Jesus as an extremely unique and important prophet, which is far more than what Judaism does. But to portray Jesus as Son of God would contradict Islam's assumption of what that would entail--ie, for God to "take a wife." And to portray Jesus as part of the Divinity would contradict Islam's assumptions about the Unity or Oneness of God. But I detect no conspiracy.

 

[Montalban]

It is Catholic teaching that Jews, Christians, and Muslims worship the same Creator.

What insights into God did you learn from Muhammed?

 

[steve_bakr]

What insights into God did you learn from Muhammed?

I'm not sure what prompted the question or how it relates to the subject at hand. I've not really thought specifically about Muhammad in that regard. Are you interested in insights from Islam in general?

 

[Montalban]

I'm not sure what prompted the question or how it relates to the subject at hand. I've not really thought specifically about Muhammad in that regard. Are you interested in insights from Islam in general?

I'm interested in what you got out of Islam.

And, to see if you couldn't have got that out of Christianity

In other words, what is Christianity lacking?

 

[smaneck]

To Muslims, Jesus wasn't the messiah, he's a prophet, like Muhammad.

Jesus is called Messiah several times in the Qur'an. The problem is that Christians often don't know what Messiah means. They think it means savior.

 

[smaneck]

He was born of divine birth. Surely, he had more of a purpose then to be taken to heaven and some imposter to fool everyone for a good 600 years before Mohammed had his revelation from Angel Gabriel?

The Qur'an does not say that imposter took Jesus' place on the cross. That is a late interpretation. I suggest you take a look at this book when you get a chance:

http://www.oneworld-publications.com/pdfs/Crucifixionandthe Quran_text.pdf

The Muslim argument regarding the virgin birth is that he was not begotten, God simply said "BE" and he was. They would make the argument that if Jesus is greater than other Messengers by virtue of having no mother, then Adam is the greatest of all, for he had neither mother or father. (As did Melchizedek in the Bible, but I've not seen Muslims mention him.)

You see I hear so often that islam is similar to Christianity but really Mohammed has more purpose than Jesus and why are we WAITING FOR JESUS in both Islam and Christianity why not Mohammed?

The Qur'an says in regards to the Prophets "no difference do we make between them." In some ways Muhammad is the return of Christ. But most Muslims see Jesus the way Jews see the Messiah. Because he was thought to be taken physically into heaven, so he can return. However, the New Testament asserts that John the Baptist was the return of Elijah. I don't see why the Return of Christ wouldn't be the same.

 

[smaneck]

As per Quran christianity is an abomination and a lie invented and it's practice makes christians hell bound.

62. Those who believe (in the Qur'án) and those who follow the Jewish (Scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians, and who believe in Allah and the last day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

(The Qur'an (Yusuf Ali tr), Surah 2)

 

[smaneck]

Your diagram isn't entirely correct.

Yeah, we Baha'is got left out!

 

[smaneck]

Alright.

The qur'an mentions over 100 times, that the true religion of 'allah' is islam (submission). If G*d is the same as 'allah' as claimed, where is that sentiment in the Bible, OT or NT?

Really? So Christians don't believe that the unsubmitted will is the root of all sin?

But it is true that the Bible mostly talks about women submitting.

 

[smaneck]

There is no submission as what we see in islam (five pillars, repeating rituals).

4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

(King James Bible, James)

 

[Montalban]

Jesus is called Messiah several times in the Qur'an. The problem is that Christians often don't know what Messiah means. They think it means savior.

Can you start a thread and set out further what you think I (should) believe?