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What do Baptists believe about speaking in tongues?

Discussion in 'Baptists' started by Ave Maria, Nov 1, 2004.

  1. greatdivide46

    greatdivide46 Junior Member

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    Paul said, after pointing out that everyone does not have all the spiritual gifts, but earnestly desire the higher gifts (1 Corinthians 12:31). Sure looks like Paul thought some of God's gifts "aren't all that much." Or, at least some were higher than others. And the lowest ones on Paul's list in 1 Corinthians 12 are tongues and interpretation of tongues.

    Just an observation. I'm not saying tongues aren't for today or that no one today has the gift of tongues. All I'm saying is that we've elevated the gift of tongues much higher than God intended it to be.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2012
  2. Osage Bluestem

    Osage Bluestem Galatians 5:1

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    I don't believe in speaking in tongues.
     
  3. His_disciple3

    His_disciple3 Newbie

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    I believe with God all things are possible!
     
  4. FreeInChrist88

    FreeInChrist88 Senior Member

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    Why don't you believe? I'm not looking for a fight, I'm just curious.
     
  5. DeaconDean

    DeaconDean γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

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    Paul also said:

    "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?" -1 Cor. 12:28-29 (KJV)

    And in Ephesians he says:

    "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;" -Eph. 4:11 (KJV)

    Looks like Paul didn't place much emphasis on pastors as in 1 Cor. 12:28-29 they aren't even memtioned, and in Eph. 4:11 they are ranked just one knoch above teachers which comes in last.

    Seems to me that when it comes to gifts of the Spirit, Paul said the most desirable was "charity".

    "And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity." -1 Cor. 13:13 (KJV)

    And if "tongues" was:

    Was does Paul dedicate a whole chapter (1 Cor. 14) to the topic of speaking in tongues?

    John Gill comments in the Introduction to 1 Corinthians 12:

    1 Corinthians 12 · John Gill’s Commentary of the Whole Bible · Commentaries (goodbooksfree.com)

    Matthew Henry comments:

    http://www.ccel.org/ccel/henry/mhc6.iCor.i.html

    Just a casual observation.

    God Bless

    Till all are one.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2012
  6. greatdivide46

    greatdivide46 Junior Member

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    Just off hand I'd say he dedicated a whole chapter to the topic of speaking in tongues because the Christians in Corinth were misusing the gift and elevating it to a much higher place than God intended. Much like some churches are doing today.

    Again, I'm not saying that tongues are not for today. I'm just saying that in the present day church we attach way too much importance to that one, single spiritual gift at the expense of other, more important gifts.
     
  7. dies-l

    dies-l Guest

    Actually, I think that the idea of "greater gifts" becomes clear when that passage is left in context. Immediately after that, he begins to talk about love, and he concludes by saying "and these three remain: faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these is love." What are the "greater gifts"? Faith, hope, and love, and the greatest of all is love.

    To make that passage about speaking in tongues requires one to ignore context and make some huge assumptions that are not supported by the text. We would typically call this eisegesis.
     
  8. greatdivide46

    greatdivide46 Junior Member

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    I agree. However, the very fact that tongues is even mentioned shows us how tongues is related to the other spiritual gifts. While the passage is primarily about spiritual gifts as a whole it does show that the gift of tongues is not all that important. At least that's what I see.
     
  9. dies-l

    dies-l Guest

    I don't think it is showing that it is particularly important or unimportant, only that it exists and that it is not the be all and end all of the Christian life. I believe that the mistake of the Corinthian church was to argue about whose gift was more important, better, more helpful to the church, etc. Paul was saying that the church needs all of the gifts. And, then, to humble them and to help them to see the silliness of their argument, he says, "what you really should be looking for is the greater gifts of faith, hope, and love, and if you don't have those, everything else is wasted anyway." (dies-l's paraphrased version of 1 Cor 13). I think that the subtext here is that by bickering about such things they are missing the point and they are not living by faith, hope, and love. I don't see an indictment here about tongues being unimportant, but I can see where he is suggesting that it was overvalued in the Corinthian church.
     
  10. His_disciple3

    His_disciple3 Newbie

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    I don't think that faith, hope and charity are spiritual gifts, although faith is listed as a spiritual gift( the spiritual gift of faith is what allowed Peter to walk and where ever his shadow fell people were healed . Charity and Hope are not listed as spiritual gifts. Faith, hope and Charity are responses we have or actions that we can acheive, and By the way charity is the correct word in this contents, for charity is the action verb of love. If you tell a man without a coat go away I will give you one tomorrow, what good have you done him. We can say we love people but until we put legs on that Love we as sounding brass. also I know that God hath given every man a measure of faith, so we have to exercise that faith, Hope in Jesus Christ and the prophecy of scriptures, we have not experienced them yet but have Hope in them that God has not broken a promise yet , and He don't intend on breaking any in the future. but these three faith, hope and Charity are compared against another, none of the spiritual gifts were in this comparsion, We have faith in Jesus, but unless we love others, we can have hope in Jesus but unless we help others, so how do we allow Christ to be shown through us, or how do we let His light shine from us. can we do it by our faith? yes. can we show this by our hope? yes. But CHARITY is the greatest way.
     
  11. greatdivide46

    greatdivide46 Junior Member

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    I agree. I wasn't saying that Paul was expressly pointing out that tongues were unimportant, but you can tell by how it relates it to the other gifts that, as you said, its not the be all and end all of the spiritual gifts.

    Some churches today actually encourage their members to seek the gift of tongues, as if without it you are not a true Christian. I wonder how many encourage their members to seek the gift of faith, encouragement, prophesying, or any of the other spiritual gifts? At least in the same way the gift of tongues is encouraged.
     
  12. Osage Bluestem

    Osage Bluestem Galatians 5:1

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    I think that charismatic gifts have ceased because the apostolic age is over.
     
  13. WinBySurrender

    WinBySurrender New Member

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    Exactly. What he said.
     
  14. twin1954

    twin1954 Newbie

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    When I see the dead being raised and lepers being healed I will believe that the Apostolic gifts continue. Instead what I see is things being done that can easily be faked.
     
  15. nobdysfool

    nobdysfool The original! Accept no substitutes! Supporter

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    Well, I have seen a dead person raised: My wife. She was dead for an hour and a half, and God Sovereignly raised her. I was there. She was no longer alive. And, I was not doing anything, or trying to raise her, or anything. God did it without anyone doing anything. The doctors were stunned and nearly speechless. This happened in Cleveland Clinic. She went into cardiac arrest, and nothing they did would bring her back. She had flat-lined. An hour and a half later, her son noticed a faint pulse, and asked for the monitors to be hooked up again. She had a heartbeat and began breathing again. Over the course of 18 hours, she came back, with zero organ or brain damage. 6 weeks later, she received a heart transplant. Her new heart is doing perfectly, after a year. There was and is no loss of mental function, motor skills, or any other health problems. She is in excellent health.

    Now, I know it could be asked, "if God raised her, why didn't He also heal her heart?" All I can say is, you'll have to ask Him that question. I don't know. But I cannot deny what I saw with my own two eyes, and heard with my own two ears. Cleveland Clinic is one of the finest heart hospitals in the world. For days afterward, groups of doctors would just come into her room and stare at her, not believing their eyes and ears. They have no medical explanation for her return from death, and recovery. And they freely admit it. I've talked with those doctors. Even they say that God must have intervened.

    So, I say with all seriousness and no malice, anyone who says that God doesn't do miracles today, needs to get their theology adjusted. If your theology doesn't allow for that, your theology is wrong.
     
  16. nobdysfool

    nobdysfool The original! Accept no substitutes! Supporter

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    Out of curiosity, what scripture indicates this?
     
  17. Osage Bluestem

    Osage Bluestem Galatians 5:1

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    From Here:

    "The Cessation of Tongues and Prophecy" by Greg Loren Durand
     
  18. nobdysfool

    nobdysfool The original! Accept no substitutes! Supporter

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    Joel 2:28-32 ESV "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh; your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, and your young men shall see visions. (29) Even on the male and female servants in those days I will pour out my Spirit. (30) "And I will show wonders in the heavens and on the earth, blood and fire and columns of smoke. (31) The sun shall be turned to darkness, and the moon to blood, before the great and awesome day of the LORD comes. (32) And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the LORD has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom the LORD calls.


    Just wondering how you interpret this.

    In the interest of full disclosure, I do believe that the Gifts of the Spirit are given today, by God as He wills, and as He sees fit. Not to the extent that it seems to have occurred during the Apostles' time, but there might be several different reasons for that. I don't believe that lack of evidence equates to evidence of lack. But I do not grow contentious about it, as I believe we must each be accountable for what we believe.
     
  19. Osage Bluestem

    Osage Bluestem Galatians 5:1

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    Fulfilled in Acts Chapter 2. Peter's sermon in that chapter explains it.
     
  20. VCViking

    VCViking Go ye into all the world, and preach the Gospel...

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    Interesting article on the topic at hand.


    Proving that Charismatic Gifts Have Ceased
    Sword & Trowel 2011, no 2 by Dr Peter Masters

    Sword & Trowel Magazine articles
     
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