What do Baptists believe about speaking in tongues?

greatdivide46

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Would someone explain to me why any Christian would have an attitude of disdain toward ANY gift of God? I see a lot of people downplaying tongues, even if they believe the gifts are for today, as "unimportant", or "one of the lesser gifts". Really? some of God's gifts aren't all that much? Think on that a while....
Paul said, after pointing out that everyone does not have all the spiritual gifts, but earnestly desire the higher gifts (1 Corinthians 12:31). Sure looks like Paul thought some of God's gifts "aren't all that much." Or, at least some were higher than others. And the lowest ones on Paul's list in 1 Corinthians 12 are tongues and interpretation of tongues.

Just an observation. I'm not saying tongues aren't for today or that no one today has the gift of tongues. All I'm saying is that we've elevated the gift of tongues much higher than God intended it to be.
 
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DeaconDean

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Paul said, after pointing out that everyone does not have all the spiritual gifts, but earnestly desire the higher gifts (1 Corinthians 12:31). Sure looks like Paul though some of God's gifts "aren't all that much." Or, at least some were higher than others. And the lowest ones on Paul's list in 1 Corinthians 12 are tongues and interpretation of tongues.

Just an observation. I'm not saying tongues aren't for today or that no one today has the gift of tongues. All I'm saying is that we've elevated the gift of tongues much higher than God intended it to be.

Paul also said:

"And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?" -1 Cor. 12:28-29 (KJV)

And in Ephesians he says:

"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;" -Eph. 4:11 (KJV)

Looks like Paul didn't place much emphasis on pastors as in 1 Cor. 12:28-29 they aren't even memtioned, and in Eph. 4:11 they are ranked just one knoch above teachers which comes in last.

Seems to me that when it comes to gifts of the Spirit, Paul said the most desirable was "charity".

"And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity." -1 Cor. 13:13 (KJV)

And if "tongues" was:

the lowest ones on Paul's list in 1 Corinthians 12

Was does Paul dedicate a whole chapter (1 Cor. 14) to the topic of speaking in tongues?

John Gill comments in the Introduction to 1 Corinthians 12:

INTRODUCTION TO 1 CORINTHIANS 12

In this chapter the apostle discourses concerning spiritual gifts, showing the author, nature, use, and excellency of them; compares the church to an human body, and in a beautiful manner sets forth the symmetry and subserviency of the members of it to one another, being set in different places, and having different gifts; and enumerates the several offices and gifts in the church, and yet suggests there is something more excellent than them. He intimates, that spiritual gifts are valuable things, and should be taken notice of; nor would he have the saints ignorant of them, and therefore gives the following account, 1Co 12:1 and yet he would not have those that have them be proud of them, and lifted up with them; for which reason he puts them in mind of their former state in Heathenism, to make and keep them humble, 1Co 12:2 and points out such who have the Spirit of God, the author of all gifts and grace; not such who call Jesus accursed, but they that call him Lord, 1Co 12:3 which Holy Ghost, who is called Spirit, Lord, and God, is the author of the different gifts bestowed upon men, 1Co 12:4 the end of bestowing which gifts is the profit of others,

1 Corinthians 12 · John Gill’s Commentary of the Whole Bible · Commentaries (goodbooksfree.com)

Matthew Henry comments:

In the twelfth chapter he enters on the consideration of spiritual gifts, which were poured forth in great abundance on this church, upon which they were not a little elated. He tells them, in this chapter, that all came from the same original, and were all directed to the same end. They issued from one Spirit, and were intended for the good of the church, and must be abused when they were not made to minister to this purpose. Towards the close he informs them that they were indeed valuable gifts, but he could recommend to them something far more excellent, upon which he breaks out, in the thirteenth chapter, into the commendation and characteristics of charity. And them, in the fourteenth, he directs them how to keep up decency and order in the churches in the use of their spiritual gifts, in which they seem to have been exceedingly irregular, through pride of their gifts and a vanity of showing them.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/henry/mhc6.iCor.i.html

Just a casual observation.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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greatdivide46

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Was does Paul dedicate a whole chapter (1 Cor. 14) to the topic of speaking in tongues?
Just off hand I'd say he dedicated a whole chapter to the topic of speaking in tongues because the Christians in Corinth were misusing the gift and elevating it to a much higher place than God intended. Much like some churches are doing today.

Again, I'm not saying that tongues are not for today. I'm just saying that in the present day church we attach way too much importance to that one, single spiritual gift at the expense of other, more important gifts.
 
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Paul said, after pointing out that everyone does not have all the spiritual gifts, but earnestly desire the higher gifts (1 Corinthians 12:31). Sure looks like Paul thought some of God's gifts "aren't all that much." Or, at least some were higher than others. And the lowest ones on Paul's list in 1 Corinthians 12 are tongues and interpretation of tongues.

Just an observation. I'm not saying tongues aren't for today or that no one today has the gift of tongues. All I'm saying is that we've elevated the gift of tongues much higher than God intended it to be.

Actually, I think that the idea of "greater gifts" becomes clear when that passage is left in context. Immediately after that, he begins to talk about love, and he concludes by saying "and these three remain: faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these is love." What are the "greater gifts"? Faith, hope, and love, and the greatest of all is love.

To make that passage about speaking in tongues requires one to ignore context and make some huge assumptions that are not supported by the text. We would typically call this eisegesis.
 
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greatdivide46

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Actually, I think that the idea of "greater gifts" becomes clear when that passage is left in context. Immediately after that, he begins to talk about love, and he concludes by saying "and these three remain: faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these is love." What are the "greater gifts"? Faith, hope, and love, and the greatest of all is love.

To make that passage about speaking in tongues requires one to ignore context and make some huge assumptions that are not supported by the text. We would typically call this eisegesis.
I agree. However, the very fact that tongues is even mentioned shows us how tongues is related to the other spiritual gifts. While the passage is primarily about spiritual gifts as a whole it does show that the gift of tongues is not all that important. At least that's what I see.
 
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dies-l

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I agree. However, the very fact that tongues is even mentioned shows us how tongues is related to the other spiritual gifts. While the passage is primarily about spiritual gifts as a whole it does show that the gift of tongues is not all that important. At least that's what I see.

I don't think it is showing that it is particularly important or unimportant, only that it exists and that it is not the be all and end all of the Christian life. I believe that the mistake of the Corinthian church was to argue about whose gift was more important, better, more helpful to the church, etc. Paul was saying that the church needs all of the gifts. And, then, to humble them and to help them to see the silliness of their argument, he says, "what you really should be looking for is the greater gifts of faith, hope, and love, and if you don't have those, everything else is wasted anyway." (dies-l's paraphrased version of 1 Cor 13). I think that the subtext here is that by bickering about such things they are missing the point and they are not living by faith, hope, and love. I don't see an indictment here about tongues being unimportant, but I can see where he is suggesting that it was overvalued in the Corinthian church.
 
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His_disciple3

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I don't think that faith, hope and charity are spiritual gifts, although faith is listed as a spiritual gift( the spiritual gift of faith is what allowed Peter to walk and where ever his shadow fell people were healed . Charity and Hope are not listed as spiritual gifts. Faith, hope and Charity are responses we have or actions that we can acheive, and By the way charity is the correct word in this contents, for charity is the action verb of love. If you tell a man without a coat go away I will give you one tomorrow, what good have you done him. We can say we love people but until we put legs on that Love we as sounding brass. also I know that God hath given every man a measure of faith, so we have to exercise that faith, Hope in Jesus Christ and the prophecy of scriptures, we have not experienced them yet but have Hope in them that God has not broken a promise yet , and He don't intend on breaking any in the future. but these three faith, hope and Charity are compared against another, none of the spiritual gifts were in this comparsion, We have faith in Jesus, but unless we love others, we can have hope in Jesus but unless we help others, so how do we allow Christ to be shown through us, or how do we let His light shine from us. can we do it by our faith? yes. can we show this by our hope? yes. But CHARITY is the greatest way.
 
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greatdivide46

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I don't think it is showing that it is particularly important or unimportant, only that it exists and that it is not the be all and end all of the Christian life. I believe that the mistake of the Corinthian church was to argue about whose gift was more important, better, more helpful to the church, etc. Paul was saying that the church needs all of the gifts. And, then, to humble them and to help them to see the silliness of their argument, he says, "what you really should be looking for is the greater gifts of faith, hope, and love, and if you don't have those, everything else is wasted anyway." (dies-l's paraphrased version of 1 Cor 13). I think that the subtext here is that by bickering about such things they are missing the point and they are not living by faith, hope, and love. I don't see an indictment here about tongues being unimportant, but I can see where he is suggesting that it was overvalued in the Corinthian church.
I agree. I wasn't saying that Paul was expressly pointing out that tongues were unimportant, but you can tell by how it relates it to the other gifts that, as you said, its not the be all and end all of the spiritual gifts.

Some churches today actually encourage their members to seek the gift of tongues, as if without it you are not a true Christian. I wonder how many encourage their members to seek the gift of faith, encouragement, prophesying, or any of the other spiritual gifts? At least in the same way the gift of tongues is encouraged.
 
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WinBySurrender

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nobdysfool

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When I see the dead being raised and lepers being healed I will believe that the Apostolic gifts continue. Instead what I see is things being done that can easily be faked.

Well, I have seen a dead person raised: My wife. She was dead for an hour and a half, and God Sovereignly raised her. I was there. She was no longer alive. And, I was not doing anything, or trying to raise her, or anything. God did it without anyone doing anything. The doctors were stunned and nearly speechless. This happened in Cleveland Clinic. She went into cardiac arrest, and nothing they did would bring her back. She had flat-lined. An hour and a half later, her son noticed a faint pulse, and asked for the monitors to be hooked up again. She had a heartbeat and began breathing again. Over the course of 18 hours, she came back, with zero organ or brain damage. 6 weeks later, she received a heart transplant. Her new heart is doing perfectly, after a year. There was and is no loss of mental function, motor skills, or any other health problems. She is in excellent health.

Now, I know it could be asked, "if God raised her, why didn't He also heal her heart?" All I can say is, you'll have to ask Him that question. I don't know. But I cannot deny what I saw with my own two eyes, and heard with my own two ears. Cleveland Clinic is one of the finest heart hospitals in the world. For days afterward, groups of doctors would just come into her room and stare at her, not believing their eyes and ears. They have no medical explanation for her return from death, and recovery. And they freely admit it. I've talked with those doctors. Even they say that God must have intervened.

So, I say with all seriousness and no malice, anyone who says that God doesn't do miracles today, needs to get their theology adjusted. If your theology doesn't allow for that, your theology is wrong.
 
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Osage Bluestem

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Out of curiosity, what scripture indicates this?

“It shall come to pass that if anyone still prophesies, then his father and mother who begot him will say to him, ‘You shall not live, because you have spoken lies in the Name of the LORD.’ And his father and mother who begot him shall thrust him through when he prophesies. “And it shall be in that day that every prophet will be ashamed of his wisdom when he prophesies; they will not wear a robe of course hair to deceive. But he will say, ‘I am no prophet, I am a farmer; for a man taught me to keep cattle from my youth.’
The context of this passage of Zechariah places “that day” in the first century (see 12:10, 13:1, and 13:7). There is no denying then that continuing prophecy or revelation subsequent to the closing of the canon is viewed by God as worthy of the most severe punishment, and even of death. Why? Because it is false prophecy in view of the fact that God no longer speaks with men in a revelatory fashion, whether it be via the vehicle of unknown tongues, prophetic utterances, or the writing of additional “scripture.” Indeed, to insist otherwise, is in effect, to say that God’s revelation of Himself in His Son, Jesus Christ is insufficient. The Scripture says otherwise:
“God, who at various times and in different ways spoke in times past to the fathers by the Prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds”(Hebrews 1:1-2).
In closing, it is very significant to note that, aside from various cult groups over the ages (i.e. Montanism, Mormonism, etc.), tongues and prophecy were not recognized by anyone in the history of the orthodox Christian Church as continuing. It was not until the early part of this century that they “made a comeback” in mainstream Christendom with the Pentecostal Movement and gained popularity in the 1960s with the Charismatic Movement. It is also significant that the vast majority of those who claim to possess these gifts today are grossly ignorant of the most basic doctrines of Scripture and are, in many cases, proponents of outright heresy which denies Christ (i.e. adherents to the Faith Movement, the Manifest Sons of God, etc.). As a whole, modern Charismatics are guilty of willfully rejecting the Word of God in favor of “ear-tickling” false prophets. Does it not seem strange, in light of how God dealt with the Jews for this very same sin in A.D. 70, that He would choose to “pour out His Spirit” upon such rebellious people today via tongues and prophecy, while failing to give such “blessings” to those in the Reformed faith who have remained true to His Word and faithful to His covenant? Food for thought, indeed.

From Here:

"The Cessation of Tongues and Prophecy" by Greg Loren Durand
 
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nobdysfool

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Joel 2:28-32 ESV "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh; your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, and your young men shall see visions. (29) Even on the male and female servants in those days I will pour out my Spirit. (30) "And I will show wonders in the heavens and on the earth, blood and fire and columns of smoke. (31) The sun shall be turned to darkness, and the moon to blood, before the great and awesome day of the LORD comes. (32) And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the LORD has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom the LORD calls.


Just wondering how you interpret this.

In the interest of full disclosure, I do believe that the Gifts of the Spirit are given today, by God as He wills, and as He sees fit. Not to the extent that it seems to have occurred during the Apostles' time, but there might be several different reasons for that. I don't believe that lack of evidence equates to evidence of lack. But I do not grow contentious about it, as I believe we must each be accountable for what we believe.
 
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Osage Bluestem

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Joel 2:28-32 ESV "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh; your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, and your young men shall see visions. (29) Even on the male and female servants in those days I will pour out my Spirit. (30) "And I will show wonders in the heavens and on the earth, blood and fire and columns of smoke. (31) The sun shall be turned to darkness, and the moon to blood, before the great and awesome day of the LORD comes. (32) And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the LORD has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom the LORD calls.


Just wondering how you interpret this.

In the interest of full disclosure, I do believe that the Gifts of the Spirit are given today, by God as He wills, and as He sees fit. Not to the extent that it seems to have occurred during the Apostles' time, but there might be several different reasons for that. I don't believe that lack of evidence equates to evidence of lack. But I do not grow contentious about it, as I believe we must each be accountable for what we believe.

Fulfilled in Acts Chapter 2. Peter's sermon in that chapter explains it.
 
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