We got ourselves a good ol' fashion terrorist attack in Colorado

[Sword of the Lord]

The point is that, according to media reports, there is never any sign of mental illness with the Islamic terrorists before they do an attack. But when it's a non-Muslim act of terror they typically show a lot of warning signs for mental illness beforehand. It doesn't take a detective or psychiatrist to see the obvious.

It does take honesty though. In other words, don't hold your breath.

 

[MikeK]

The point is that, according to media reports, there is never any sign of mental illness with the Islamic terrorists before they do an attack. But when it's a non-Muslim act of terror they typically show a lot of warning signs for mental illness beforehand. It doesn't take a detective or psychiatrist to see the obvious.

Actually, there was significant speculation that the older of the Boston bombers was mentally ill, and that his behaviors and mannerisms changed significantly in the months and years before the attack. More than one psychiatrist has speculated that he was selected for radicalization specifically because of some mental issues he had. It has also been suggested that the younger brother was mentally incapable of resisting being manipulated by his older brother.

http://www.pri.org/stories/2013-12-16/was-alleged-boston-bomber-tamerlan-tsarnaev-mentally-ill

http://www.treatmentadvocacycenter....8-was-the-boston-marathon-bombing-preventable

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...201304/dzhokhar-tsarnaevs-psychiatric-defense

Their father was also said to have signs of mental illness:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...naev-jurors/C7DzvyxunG3WbPgr0SEaYN/story.html

 

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

Can you expand upon that comment?

Governments should approach issues of safety, rights and obligations in terms of statistical data. Eliminating guns from society would imply an all around safer society. Allowing sex education in order to build a better informed and sexually intelligent society. Simply looking at the possible issues without thinking of the state as a collection of individuals and thinking of their constituency as a collection of statistics, the mean of which should be the subject of increasing in living standard.

 

[Hetta]

Actually, there was significant speculation that the older of the Boston bombers was mentally ill, and that his behaviors and mannerisms changed significantly in the months and years before the attack. More than one psychiatrist has speculated that he was selected for radicalization specifically because of some mental issues he had. It has also been suggested that the younger brother was mentally incapable of resisting being manipulated by his older brother.

http://www.pri.org/stories/2013-12-16/was-alleged-boston-bomber-tamerlan-tsarnaev-mentally-ill

http://www.treatmentadvocacycenter....8-was-the-boston-marathon-bombing-preventable

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...201304/dzhokhar-tsarnaevs-psychiatric-defense

Their father was also said to have signs of mental illness:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...naev-jurors/C7DzvyxunG3WbPgr0SEaYN/story.html

Thank you for actually looking that up.

 

[Hetta]

Governments should approach issues of safety, rights and obligations in terms of statistical data. Eliminating guns from society would imply an all around safer society. Allowing sex education in order to build a better informed and sexually intelligent society. Simply looking at the possible issues without thinking of the state as a collection of individuals and thinking of their constituency as a collection of statistics, the mean of which should be the subject of increasing in living standard.

Interesting theory. That would mean discarding religious ideals, yes?

 

[LivingWordUnity]

So we should tell detectives and psychiatrists that they don't need to do all that training for their jobs because people like you can solve the problem without even leaving their room. Ooookay.

I never said that detectives and psychiatrists aren't needed. I'm only saying that there are warning signs that can give any thinking person a clue that someone may need to be seen by a professional.

 

[Hetta]

I never said that detectives and psychiatrists aren't needed. I'm only saying that there are warning signs that give any thinking person a clue that someone may need to be seen by a professional.

Those "thinking people's" thoughts tend to be colored by their own issues and can often be misinterpreted. Projection can also be an issue. While spouses, parents, and (older) siblings may indeed notice some strange behaviors, those at a distance cannot be trusted to interpret or "refer" strangers for psychological review.

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

If it is true that the Planned Parenthood videos were cut and edited to falsely portray PP as worse, and if it is also true that those videos motivated in some part the attacker, does the creator of the videos and those that distributed them have any liability for the murders?

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Those "thinking people's" thoughts tend to be colored by their own issues and can often be misinterpreted. Projection can also be an issue. While spouses, parents, and (older) siblings may indeed notice some strange behaviors, those at a distance cannot be trusted to interpret or "refer" strangers for psychological review.

We can read the same news reports and make an objective judgment based on that. The news reports consistently say with Islamic terrorists that there were no warning signs of mental illness observed by anyone who knew them, and they had no history of mental illness. This contrasts with how it is typically reported that non-Islamic terrorists typically have a history of mental illness, and people who knew them say that they had observed a lot of strange behavior before the incident which made people think the person was mentally ill. So on the one hand there are consistently no warning signs reported while on the other there are consistently warning signs reported. One doesn't have to be a detective to know that these two things are opposites.

 

[Hetta]

If it is true that the Planned Parenthood videos were cut and edited to falsely portray PP as worse, and if it is also true that those videos motivated in some part the attacker, does the creator of the videos and those that distributed them have any liability for the murders?

Yes and yes. The videos were highly edited. If they were truly indicative of illegal practices, they would have been offered directly to the police as evidence in a criminal case, but no, they were "leaked" to the media in their edited version. The person doing the editing and publicizing absolutely has blood on their hands, if these videos inspired these attacks.

 

[Hetta]

We can read the same news reports and make an objective judgment based on that. The news reports consistently say with Islamic terrorists that there were no warning signs of mental illness observed by anyone who knew them, and they had no history of mental illness. This contrasts with how it is typically reported that non-Islamic terrorists typically have a history of mental illness, and people who knew them say that they had observed a lot of strange behavior before the incident. So on the one hand there are consistently no warning signs reported while on the other there are consistently warning signs reported. One doesn't have to be a detective to know that these two things are opposites.

Read MikeK's post. The Boston bombers did have a history.

Please don't tell me that you make any objective judgments on this topic. You know you're not objective at all.

It's amazing how "expert" the public is on spotting the warning signs of complete strangers. I can only blame tv shows and movies for that. It's kind of like how expert people are about catching criminals from watching CSI.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Read MikeK's post. The Boston bombers did have a history.

Please don't tell me that you make any objective judgments on this topic. You know you're not objective at all.

It's amazing how "expert" the public is on spotting the warning signs of complete strangers. I can only blame tv shows and movies for that. It's kind of like how expert people are about catching criminals from watching CSI.

All that MikeK is saying is that the defense speculated AFTER the incident that they may have had mental illness. But the point is that BEFORE the incident, there were no warning signs. BEFORE the incident everyone thought they were normal. And it's typical that a defense attorney will try to claim for the client that they were insane in order to avoid the death penalty.

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

All that MikeK is saying is that the defense speculated AFTER the incident that they may have had mental illness. But the point is that BEFORE the incident, there were no warning signs. BEFORE the incident everyone thought they were normal.

I don't recall, did Eric Rudolph, Timothy McVeigh or Terry Nichols show these warning signs?

 

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

Interesting theory. That would mean discarding religious ideals, yes?

People can believe whatever they want. Governments should believe that they are creating a better environment for their citizens.

 

[Hetta]

People can believe whatever they want. Governments should believe that they are creating a better environment for their citizens.

I understand what you were saying in that regard, I meant that governments should not therefore be bringing religion into any aspect of the governing process. Perhaps non-Christians could then be elected! Freedom for all!

 

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

I understand what you were saying in that regard, I meant that governments should not therefore be bringing religion into any aspect of the governing process. Perhaps non-Christians could then be elected! Freedom for all!

Why shouldn't non-Christians get elected. People who are the best at their jobs should get elected regardless of if they're men, women, Muslims, atheists or Christians. If someone is going to be good at developing a good, equitable, safe and prosperous society then they should be doing it.

 

[Hetta]

All that MikeK is saying is that the defense speculated AFTER the incident that they may have had mental illness. But the point is that BEFORE the incident, there were no warning signs. BEFORE the incident everyone thought they were normal. And it's typical that a defense attorney will try to claim for the client that they were insane in order to avoid the death penalty.

"Everyone"? Who is this everyone? The neighbors who typically say that a mass murderer "seemed like such a nice person"? Nobody has a clue what goes on in their neighbor's home unless they are intimately acquainted. And even then, when the curtains and the doors close ... that's when the real person emerges. That's why you have so many people, who when they found out domestic abuse was going on within the home, will say "but x seemed like such a nice person." Yes, because you see the public face.

I'm not going to keep on harping about this because I know about it personally, while you know about it from your armchair. People go into counseling and their friends react with astonishment. "What are you getting counseling for?" People hide things out of shame, or for other, nefarious reasons. Plenty of people you know but don't suspect have mental disorders, and others you suspect have mental disorders have none at all.

 

[Hetta]

Why shouldn't non-Christians get elected. People who are the best at their jobs should get elected regardless of if they're men, women, Muslims, atheists or Christians. If someone is going to be good at developing a good, equitable, safe and prosperous society then they should be doing it.

I have made many posts to express exactly that sentiment.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

I don't recall, did Eric Rudolph, Timothy McVeigh or Terry Nichols show these warning signs?

I'm not going to look them all up. So I'll pick Timothy McVeigh. According to what has been reported he was motivated by Nazi ideology. So he was motivated by something other than the Catholic religion that he was brought up with.

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

I'm not going to look them all up. So I'll pick Timothy McVeigh. According to what has been reported he was motivated by Nazi ideology. So he was motivated by something other than the Catholic religion that he was brought up with.

The question was about signs of mental illness, though, not Catholicism, or religious or political beliefs in general. Your claim was non Islamic terrorist were all known for showing signs of mental illness prior to the attacks.