YeShallTread
Well-Known Member
I see the time frame as the same time for the two witnesses and the 144,000 as they are the same. The two witnesses are two groups of witnesses and they are the two groups of 144,000. I base that, in part, on:
Revelation 7:3-4 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
The tribes, one group of 144,000, sing the Song of Moses found in [Deuteronomy 32], while the other group sing "a new song" which only they could learn.
Revelation 14:1-4 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with Him an hundred forty and four thousand, having His Father's name written in their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever He goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
Both groups get "the victory" and here we see the two groups of 144,000 together where both songs (song of Moses and the new song, song of the Lamb) are being sung:
Revelation 15:1-3 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God. And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God. And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.
That, to my mind, shows there are two groups of 144,000 and I believe Scripture points to the two witnesses being two groups. I do agree that there will be strong individuals to speak and guide the two groups, as you have stated. I see them as the "man child," but I see them as more than two individuals. However, I'm still working on the differences, if any, in the two witnesses and the man child. I know they are who they are but don't yet fully understand if they are the same.
Figuratively I see Israel not as the literal nation but as God's church, righteous believers, while I see "Jerusalem" not as the literal city but as the two groups of 144,000 witnesses. If true then "Zion" who is found within Jerusalem might represent the man child. It is they who receive the latter rain (greater understanding in order to teach).
Above I wrote:
Figuratively I see Israel not as the literal nation but as God's church, righteous believers, while I see "Jerusalem" not as the literal city but as the two groups of 144,000 witnesses. If true then "Zion" who is found within Jerusalem might represent the man child. It is they who receive the latter rain (greater understanding in order to teach).
I just came across the following and believe it substantiates that thought:
Joel 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call.
In Zion and in Jerusalem "shall be delieverance." Why, how? Because IN Zion and Jerusalem (in the witnesses and the man child) is our Lord Savior, our Deliverer. He dwells and walks in His people. We are the spiritual Jerusalem and Zion. We are the witnesses and man child for we are His temple.
2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
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