Two NYPD executed

mkgal1

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But that is never so realistic, that any would forget everything that was ever learned with reprogramming the brain. If it was needed maybe it should be happening. I would think that doesn't happen at all however long it is given. But in coming to God we will be the same individuals, yet we will have new life with the presence of the Spirit of God, with Christ cleansing us and empowering us, to overcome the old nature contrary to him. We will have to cooperate in submission that we might have with repentance for that. With real change there is love that should show, that there wasn't before for at least some people.

This may be getting into a whole other huge topic, but I somewhat agree with you. I believe that when we come to Christ our personality remains (if we were a zealous person prior---we'd be a zealous person after) just as Paul/Saul's personality remained. When Paul wrote, "But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind" (Phil 3:13)....I don't think he meant "forget" as in an amnesia kind of "forget"....because in the prior verses he listed what was behind him (in verses 5-6). I think, instead, it's more like leaving beliefs behind (for instance---that circumcision is a sign of being righteous)....taking off the old ways of thinking (that the Gentiles/Christians are God's enemy and must be killed)....and I believe that's realistic to get rid of wrong beliefs (even what's desired for us). IOW...Paul is an excellent example of that happening.
 
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mkgal1

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Pittsburgh Police Chief Under Fire For Controversial Photo, Union Says Calls Department Racists « CBS Pittsburgh

Pittsburgh Police Chief Under Fire For Controversial Photo, Union Says Calls Department Racists

PITTSBURGH (KDKA) – Pittsburgh’s Police Chief is under fire for a controversial photo that is making its rounds on Facebook, and some are saying the Chief called his entire department racist.

It happened during the First Night parade.

The protest group called Fight Back Pittsburgh carried signs saying “End White Silence.”

On their Facebook page a photograph of Pittsburgh Police Chief Cameron McLay holding one of the group’s banners, a poster that stated, “I resolve to challenge racism @ work #EndWhiteSilence.”

That's what I don't quite understand. WHY can't making resolutions like that just be seen for what they are? I don't see that as making the claim that racism is already there in his workplace (that's an assumption). I take that as just saying that if he sees it....he's not going to be silent about it. Nothing more....nothing less. If there is no racism---then there'd be no challenge....right? Why isn't that the same kind of resolution as, "I won't allow embezzling--I will challenge embezzlement as we all pay the price for it"?

ETA: Maybe this is an even better apology :police making the resolution to join in the fight against cancer. To me....both racism and cancer are enemies against humans.

122109.jpg
 
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mkgal1

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I can agree with this.

Who do you think is accountable, besides the man who shot these cops himself, for the actions he took against two cops, if anyone?

Would it be fair to say that he is to blame, but that others should be accountable?

I still think that Benjamin Watson has expressed that best (I'll quote that in a bit--it's pretty lengthy). His words were in response to Ferguson, but I think it speaks well to where the accountability lays in the war between blacks and law enforcement. I think the man that shot the two officers was obviously mentally ill (and that's a whole other issue --placing him in with mentally healthy people and their reactions). But until people stop seeing the issue through the lens of stereotypes....nothing will change. Usually "good" is intermixed with "bad"....and "bad" is intermixed with the "good"....so until we know what's genuinely good/bad (instead of just basing it on association) we aren't going to know our way around the morality of it.


At some point while I was playing or preparing to play Monday Night Football, the news broke about the Ferguson Decision. After trying to figure out how I felt, I decided to write it down. Here are my thoughts:
I'M ANGRY because the stories of injustice that have been passed down for generations seem to be continuing before our very eyes.

I'M FRUSTRATED, because pop culture, music and movies glorify these types of police citizen altercations and promote an invincible attitude that continues to get young men killed in real life, away from safety movie sets and music studios.

I'M FEARFUL because in the back of my mind I know that although I'm a law abiding citizen I could still be looked upon as a "threat" to those who don't know me. So I will continue to have to go the extra mile to earn the benefit of the doubt.

I'M EMBARRASSED because the looting, violent protests, and law breaking only confirm, and in the minds of many, validate, the stereotypes and thus the inferior treatment.

I'M SAD, because another young life was lost from his family, the racial divide has widened, a community is in shambles, accusations, insensitivity hurt and hatred are boiling over, and we may never know the truth about what happened that day.

I'M SYMPATHETIC, because I wasn't there so I don't know exactly what happened. Maybe Darren Wilson acted within his rights and duty as an officer of the law and killed Michael Brown in self defense like any of us would in the circumstance. Now he has to fear the backlash against himself and his loved ones when he was only doing his job. What a horrible thing to endure. OR maybe he provoked Michael and ignited the series of events that led to him eventually murdering the young man to prove a point.

I'M OFFENDED, because of the insulting comments I've seen that are not only insensitive but dismissive to the painful experiences of others.

I'M CONFUSED, because I don't know why it's so hard to obey a policeman. You will not win!!! And I don't know why some policeman abuse their power. Power is a responsibility, not a weapon to brandish and lord over the populace.

I'M INTROSPECTIVE, because sometimes I want to take "our" side without looking at the facts in situations like these. Sometimes I feel like it's us against them. Sometimes I'm just as prejudiced as people I point fingers at. And that's not right. How can I look at white skin and make assumptions but not want assumptions made about me? That's not right.

I'M HOPELESS, because I've lived long enough to expect things like this to continue to happen. I'm not surprised and at some point my little children are going to inherit the weight of being a minority and all that it entails.

I'M HOPEFUL, because I know that while we still have race issues in America, we enjoy a much different normal than those of our parents and grandparents. I see it in my personal relationships with teammates, friends and mentors. And it's a beautiful thing.


I'M ENCOURAGED, because ultimately the problem is not a SKIN problem, it is a SIN problem. SIN is the reason we rebel against authority. SIN is the reason we abuse our authority. SIN is the reason we are racist, prejudiced and lie to cover for our own. SIN is the reason we riot, loot and burn.

BUT
I'M ENCOURAGED because God has provided a solution for sin through the his son Jesus and with it, a transformed heart and mind. One that's capable of looking past the outward and seeing what's truly important in every human being. The cure for the Michael Brown, Trayvon Martin, Tamir Rice and Eric Garner tragedies is not education or exposure. It's the Gospel. So, finally, I'M ENCOURAGED because the Gospel gives mankind hope.~Benjamin Watson
 
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CryOfALion

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But that is never so realistic, that any would forget everything that was ever learned with reprogramming the brain. If it was needed maybe it should be happening. I would think that doesn't happen at all however long it is given. But in coming to God we will be the same individuals, yet we will have new life with the presence of the Spirit of God, with Christ cleansing us and empowering us, to overcome the old nature contrary to him. We will have to cooperate in submission that we might have with repentance for that. With real change there is love that should show, that there wasn't before for at least some people.

Do you remember your life before you came here? God does; He said He knew us, before we were born, which means we at least had a personality before we were here on this planet.

You have to die to yourself; new wine cannot go into an old vessel; new wine cannot go into a refurbished vessel. This is one of the reasons why the Way is so narrow. God's parable of the sower shows us how close one can get to the Kingdom, but also details why proximity isn't enough to claim destination (the sower of the seed on rock is what I am thinking of, specifically.)
 
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FredVB

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Thanks mkgal1 and yes certainly there would be new beliefs in place of what was understood in error before, it is needed. This isn't to be thought as expected with not coming to Yahweh God through Christ.

Do you remember your life before you came here? God does; He said He knew us, before we were born, which means we at least had a personality before we were here on this planet.
You have to die to yourself; new wine cannot go into an old vessel; new wine cannot go into a refurbished vessel. This is one of the reasons why the Way is so narrow. God's parable of the sower shows us how close one can get to the Kingdom, but also details why proximity isn't enough to claim destination (the sower of the seed on rock is what I am thinking of, specifically.)

How is there scripture passages clearly designating that our personality was around before we were here without twisting any meaning in scripture? Yahweh is eternal God, with omniscience knowing all things eternally. Of course with that God can know us before we would be here. But as many will be told to depart, as he does not know them, there is knowing of all eternally but not knowing any but those who come to really be in relationship with him that are known in that way. There is new life that is being provided with the image of seed in the parable from Jesus. The hardness of heart is shown with the image of the wayside where seed is cast, the having no depth for new life is shown with stony places where there is no root adequate for it. So though it is generally available fewer respond, going that narrow way. But with this really coming to God, there is certainly more in new life to grow to. Among those who do come to God the way it is provided, through Christ, many might still hold back in areas with care for things of this world. But certainly any can grow to be fully where God wants them to be, if it ever happens that they do, with the perfection for us that we are called to.
 
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CryOfALion

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Thanks mkgal1 and yes certainly there would be new beliefs in place of what was understood in error before, it is needed. This isn't to be thought as expected with not coming to Yahweh God through Christ.



How is there scripture passages clearly designating that our personality was around before we were here without twisting any meaning in scripture? Yahweh is eternal God, with omniscience knowing all things eternally. Of course with that God can know us before we would be here. But as many will be told to depart, as he does not know them, there is knowing of all eternally but not knowing any but those who come to really be in relationship with him that are known in that way. There is new life that is being provided with the image of seed in the parable from Jesus. The hardness of heart is shown with the image of the wayside where seed is cast, the having no depth for new life is shown with stony places where there is no root adequate for it. So though it is generally available fewer respond, going that narrow way. But with this really coming to God, there is certainly more in new life to grow to. Among those who do come to God the way it is provided, through Christ, many might still hold back in areas with care for things of this world. But certainly any can grow to be fully where God wants them to be, if it ever happens that they do, with the perfection for us that we are called to.

It isnt; I said it as a conclusion. But that wasn't the point of our exchange.

You said reprogramming yourself as a means to dying to yourself is unrealistic. I said it is not, because you cannot put new wine in a gently used, or old vessel. Even though we are saintly as humans, we done gain perfection until we actually get a new, perfect body. That time in between is the dying of self - the phrase means you get to a point where you have a changing of the mind and spirit in order to want to be righteous as opposed to fighting your sinful nature, or fighting holiness.
 
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mkgal1

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It isnt; I said it as a conclusion. But that wasn't the point of our exchange.

You said reprogramming yourself as a means to dying to yourself is unrealistic. I said it is not, because you cannot put new wine in a gently used, or old vessel. Even though we are saintly as humans, we done gain perfection until we actually get a new, perfect body. That time in between is the dying of self - the phrase means you get to a point where you have a changing of the mind and spirit in order to want to be righteous as opposed to fighting your sinful nature, or fighting holiness.

Isn't it the other way around (don't we die to ourselves [rid ourselves of pride] as a means of reprogramming our minds)?

I'm not sure I'm following what you're saying here. From what I understand---when Christ brought up the new wine and old wine skins, I've understood that to mean that Christ's theology won't fit into the Pharisees/Saducees framework. It is necessary for a complete belief system overhaul. I think the same is probably necessary for this whole war between citizens and peace officers (a whole belief system overhaul). Is that what you mean? That the old "framework" has to come down?
 
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CryOfALion

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Isn't it the other way around (don't we die to ourselves [rid ourselves of pride] as a means of reprogramming our minds)?

I'm not sure I'm following what you're saying here. From what I understand---when Christ brought up the new wine and old wine skins, I've understood that to mean that Christ's theology won't fit into the Pharisees/Saducees framework. It is necessary for a complete belief system overhaul. I think the same is probably necessary for this whole war between citizens and peace officers (a whole belief system overhaul). Is that what you mean? That the old "framework" has to come down?

Not only would false prophecy not fit the framework, but literal inner workings won't fit thst.

Before wine was put into glass bottles, they were put into skins - like bladder, or stomach skins. The acids and gasses from fermentation of the wine staying in the old skin would make it impossible for new wine to be put into old skins/vessels - due to the chemistry of the process the wine skin would actually burst! The gas from the festering of previous wine compounds and new ones mixing would destroy the "old" vessel.

So, this is what I am alluding to. You cannot gain perfection with an old, or gently used mentality. You literally have to die to self. - reprogram your entire psyche to align with God - in order to even be ready to take on the "filling" of perfection. I am not trying to be esoteric or occult here; at most I am being philosophical. CHRIST Himself said this very thing, right?

New wine cannot occupy an old vessel. Even without the without the wine history, how much sense would that make anyway? This is why I said I am not trying to be esoteric of occult; indeed even a child can reason why new wine would need a new vessel, and conclude why one would have to die to one's old, sinful vessel to even begin to taste the fruits of perfection - before the actual perfect vessel is put upon us.

Sanctification is the closest we will get to "old bodies putting on new wine," because our vessels are still old.
 
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NightHawkeye

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armed white woman goes on anti-cop shooting spree:

Police Say Hixson Woman In Body Armor Fires At 2 Vehicles; Points Gun At Motorists, Officer - Chattanoogan.com

imagine if she had been black - the cops would have killed her and the right wing media would be saying she was part of a black anti-cop conspiracy
That's a really sad story ...
She was taken into custody without incident or injury to her or others.
...
Her only prior local arrests were for traffic offenses in 2006 and speeding cases in 2000 and 2003.​
 
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nightflight

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FredVB

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You said reprogramming yourself as a means to dying to yourself is unrealistic. I said it is not, because you cannot put new wine in a gently used, or old vessel. Even though we are saintly as humans, we done gain perfection until we actually get a new, perfect body. That time in between is the dying of self - the phrase means you get to a point where you have a changing of the mind and spirit in order to want to be righteous as opposed to fighting your sinful nature, or fighting holiness.

What I said actually was a response from you saying one's brain would have to be reprogrammed. I haven't heard anyone else expressing that they think like this. There might be too much made out of a parable, and the context of the one used here suggests the appropriateness of something being done at a certain time as opposed to that at another time. We can have a new life with new motivation, with coming in faith to Christ, with coming to Yahweh through Christ, in repentance to life of sin, with his power to overcome and his Spirit teaching and leading us. We learn and grow, and have new way of thinking from that. And we should grow toward perfection, though the full perfection comes to us in eternity, through Christ.
 
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mkgal1

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I don't even believe all that needs to be spiritualized. Can a person not (outside of the Holy Spirit) have a change of belief?

Do you all think it's too much of a fantasy to believe that the gap (more like a gulf) between peace officers and black citizens cannot be bridged?

It would probably be against the rules.....but---if anyone is interested---there's a great video on YouTube of a forum held at All Saints Pasadena. I think the most direct way to find it would be to look up: All Saints Pasadena Fr. Greg Boyle There is No 'Them' and 'Us'. There is Only Us. The principles he uses in his ministry (gang intervention)....is something that I believe can be used to bridge almost all gaps.
 
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FredVB

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Those apart from faith in Christ might reform from something that was being done. But this is not as certain, think of your New Year's resolutions, and this is not so sure to last. There might be cases of change in thinking and sometimes in belief, yet this might not have great change in thinking. There is far greater change that would come with a new spiritual life, this coming with the repentance there is in truly turning to Yahweh God through Christ.

The other options apart from Christ are with putting hope in social change. Social change happens anyway. But it takes a great deal of work, if it is even possible for you, to have social change go in the direction that you want it to. The greatest cause is still living to guide others to turn and come to relationship with God their Maker in his will, through Christ. There will still come a lot more of what is good from that. And in that we would come to living with compassion for others, and doing what is according to that, which there should be, and there is ever growth that is to happen in that.
 
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FredVB

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In light of great violence of the police force against black Americans, we should see that there is the problem with the police force, where they all protect each other in these things. It is better to scale back on them and have private security growing instead which businesses and neighborhoods can invest in.
 
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FredVB

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Previous to this year there was no general understanding of even some who post here about the injustice of the police state with unequal treatment of a large segment of society because of the appearance of their ethnicity, the rest of us don't live in the fear they do that we can be shot dead for anything so much as for holding a sandwich. Of course this institutional injustice must be protested, posting of hostility to the police force without that is way too one sided. Black lives matter.
 
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