Trump spouts the birther conspiracy again - first Obama, then Cruz, then Harris, now Haley

[GreatLakes4Ever]

whatever the case, its not totally baseless.

kenya lost all their birth records to fire, shortly after dreams of my real father came out.

as for obama, i don't care for his politics but the reality is we dont know where or who his father is, or where he was born for sure.
its one of those.. if you smell smoke.. there is a fire somewhere. multiple people say they never saw him at the college he supposedly went to.. its one data point of thousands.

i'm starting not to really care if the usa collapses to be honest. worse things have happened in history and will happen again.

This is how I know Christianity isn’t true. When I can’t trust you to get correct the things I do know like where Obama was born, I’m never going to to get right the things I don’t know, like what happens when we die.

You spouting off crackpot conspiracy theories shreds your Christian witness. People could end up in tortured for eternity because you fall for stupid stuff like this.

 

[Hans Blaster]

thanks, i'm building my own.

Cool. You vote in your society, I'll vote in mine, and not vice versa.

 

[johansen]

This is how I know Christianity isn’t true. When I can’t trust you to get correct the things I do know like where Obama was born, I’m never going to to get right the things I don’t know, like what happens when we die.

You spouting off crackpot conspiracy theories shreds your Christian witness. People could end up in tortured for eternity because you fall for stupid stuff like this.

nah, someone needs to tell the children santa claus doesn't exist.

if finding out the rullers of your country are all pedophiles affects your religion, you're in for a wild ride on this planet. there are worse things at foot.

 

[GreatLakes4Ever]

nah, someone needs to tell the children santa claus doesn't exist.

if finding out the rullers of your country are all pedophiles affects your religion, you're in for a wild ride on this planet. there are worse things at foot.

Don’t worry, this isn’t any different than almost any other Christian I’ve met. I don’t know if it’s because they are almost all that cold hearted or if they don’t actually believe what their holy book says about Hell but most of them don’t seem to actually care if their actions cause more people to end up in Hell because they can’t square who Christians are with what Christianity teaches. It’s blatantly obvious that for some Christians it’s more important to maintain cred in their political tribe than going out into all nations to proclaim the word.

 

[johansen]

so i was born in 1988 and i remember christians who were devastated and demoralized at how democracy had fallen when they found out clinton cheated on his wife.

20 years later we're privy to emails that indicate he never stopped and their marriage was probably an open one, if they ever had sex at all.
news at 11.... if you were traumatized by clinton you should probably get yourself checked out. there's bigger things in life to be traumatized by. like the 20-30% of women who will actually be raped for real, not the got drunk at a party type and didn't fully consent type of rape.

but i remember the trauma of finding out clinton was not holy. it really did affect a lot of people. on the one hand i feel for them, on the other i wonder what planet they live one.

one elderly woman apologized to me 6 years after i told her the rapture isn't biblical and the democrats and republicans are two sides of a corrupt coin that will end in a dictatorship or socialism. she got angry with me of course. the rapture was her escape fantasy, her hope was the republicans will restore righteousness to society.

6 years later apologized around the time trump was elected. she said God had opened her eyes. we hadn't even crossed paths hardly in those 6 years, but she still remembered our (mild) argument.

 

[JSRG]

whatever the case, its not totally baseless.

I agree the title "Trump promotes 'totally baseless' birther conspiracy theory against Nikki Haley" is a bit misleading. It's not a conspiracy (it involves a very weak claim about the US Constitution, but it's not a conspiracy), and I wouldn't say it's totally baseless either... almost totally baseless would be a better fit.

The argument basically claims that because a French guy named Vattel used the word "natural born citizen" in a work called The Law of Nations to refer specifically to those born of a citizen, that's what it meant in the US Constitution. The problem is that the translation into English of that work that used "natural born citizen" was done a decade after the Constitution was written. The translations of his work into English prior simply rendered the applicable French word as "indigenes" so obviously that played no role in their usage of the term in the Constitution. So it isn't totally baseless, someone can cite this translator as thinking that's what the term meant. But it seems to me that the opinion of an unknown British translator who translated a French work counts for very little when it comes to American constitutional interpretation.

Of course, note that what I noted isn't shared by people who make the argument. They don't try to argue that an unknown British translator had so much knowledge of the US Constitution we should listen to them--they act as if Vattel actually used the term "natural born citizen", or that a translation of his work existed that used the term which the writers of the Constitution were aware of when they wrote it, neither of which is true.

kenya lost all their birth records to fire, shortly after dreams of my real father came out.

as for obama, i don't care for his politics but the reality is we dont know where or who his father is, or where he was born for sure.
its one of those.. if you smell smoke.. there is a fire somewhere. multiple people say they never saw him at the college he supposedly went to.. its one data point of thousands.

i'm starting not to really care if the usa collapses to be honest. worse things have happened in history and will happen again.

The headline was "Trump promotes 'totally baseless' birther conspiracy theory against Nikki Haley". What in the world does Obama have to do with it? The claim about Obama being born in Kenya could be totally true, but it wouldn't mean this claim against Nikki Haley (which doesn't claim she was born outside the US) is valid.

 

[Hans Blaster]

so i was born in 1988 and i remember christians who were devastated and demoralized at how democracy had fallen when they found out clinton cheated on his wife.

You were tracking the impact of the president's filandering when you were 10? Did you even know what it was?

20 years later we're privy to emails that indicate he never stopped and their marriage was probably an open one, if they ever had sex at all.
news at 11.... if you were traumatized by clinton you should probably get yourself checked out. there's bigger things in life to be traumatized by. like the 20-30% of women who will actually be raped for real, not the got drunk at a party type and didn't fully consent type of rape.

but i remember the trauma of finding out clinton was not holy. it really did affect a lot of people. on the one hand i feel for them, on the other i wonder what planet they live one.

What a weak faith if the holiness of the president of the secular nation impacts it.

one elderly woman apologized to me 6 years after i told her the rapture isn't biblical and the democrats and republicans are two sides of a corrupt coin that will end in a dictatorship or socialism. she got angry with me of course. the rapture was her escape fantasy, her hope was the republicans will restore righteousness to society.

6 years later apologized around the time trump was elected. she said God had opened her eyes. we hadn't even crossed paths hardly in those 6 years, but she still remembered our (mild) argument.

Do you even understand what these message boards are for or how to use them?

 

[johansen]

You were tracking the impact of the president's filandering when you were 10? Did you even know what it was?

yes i was aware of how it affected people.

 

[johansen]

What a weak faith if the holiness of the president of the secular nation impacts it.

exactly, so why even reply to my comment when we have a person i replied to with this gem:

Don’t worry, this isn’t any different than almost any other Christian I’ve met. I don’t know if it’s because they are almost all that cold hearted or if they don’t actually believe what their holy book says about Hell but most of them don’t seem to actually care if their actions cause more people to end up in Hell because they can’t square who Christians are with what Christianity teaches. It’s blatantly obvious that for some Christians it’s more important to maintain cred in their political tribe than going out into all nations to proclaim the word.

 

[Hans Blaster]

yes i was aware of how it affected people.

I'm sorry, you're just not credible.

 

[Tuur]

The headline was "Trump promotes 'totally baseless' birther conspiracy theory against Nikki Haley". What in the world does Obama have to do with it? The claim about Obama being born in Kenya could be totally true, but it wouldn't mean this claim against Nikki Haley (which doesn't claim she was born outside the US) is valid.

True in more ways than one. The implication of the first line in the cited article is that the Obama birther conspiracy theory originated with Trump. Uh-uh. It seems to have surfaced during the Democrat primary in 2008 when a Clinton campaign worker showed an e-mail claiming Obama was born in Kenya. (Note: there were announcements of his birth in two Hawaiian newspapers, each giving an address in Hawaii, as well as a PDF of his birth certificate, so the conspiracy theory was false). In 2016, Trump blamed the Hillary campaign as the origin of the Obama birther conspiracy theory. That was Trump's connection to it. Note that the cited article doesn't mention that part, nor do most articles you can find online about the Nikki Haley birther claim. At least, the ones I found with a quick search. Odd thing, that.

For extra amusement, look into similar birther claims about John McCain. That didn't gain as much traction.

 

[GreatLakes4Ever]

True in more ways than one. The implication of the first line in the cited article is that the Obama birther conspiracy theory originated with Trump. Uh-uh. It seems to have surfaced during the Democrat primary in 2008 when a Clinton campaign worker showed an e-mail claiming Obama was born in Kenya. (Note: there were announcements of his birth in two Hawaiian newspapers, each giving an address in Hawaii, as well as a PDF of his birth certificate, so the conspiracy theory was false). In 2016, Trump blamed the Hillary campaign as the origin of the Obama birther conspiracy theory. That was Trump's connection to it. Note that the cited article doesn't mention that part, nor do most articles you can find online about the Nikki Haley birther claim. At least, the ones I found with a quick search. Odd thing, that.

For extra amusement, look into similar birther claims about John McCain. That didn't gain as much traction.

You skipped this part of Trump’s connection to the brother conspiracy https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE89N180/
But I honestly didn’t expect you to bring up something that painted Trump I. A poor light.

 

[Tuur]

You skipped this part of Trump’s connection to the brother conspiracy https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE89N180/
But I honestly didn’t expect you to bring up something that painted Trump I. A poor light.

You don't disagree with what I posted, but choose to attack me instead. Interesting.

 

[GreatLakes4Ever]

You don't disagree with what I posted, but choose to attack me instead. Interesting.

Trump had significantly more connection to it that just attacking Clinton for it like you claimed Donald Trump keeps pushing "birther" claims

 

[iluvatar5150]

yes, the photo they released which was a 17 layer image. lol.

That’s what happens when you import scanned pdf files incorrectly.

It’s been a while so I forget the details of the process but I was able to reproduce it myself at the time it first came up. I’m pretty sure I even posted the results here. But the “layers” were nonsensical and obviously an artifact of a botched import process, with stuff like individual letters spanning two or more layers that would never exist if it had been actually forged. Anybody who’d ever used photoshop could’ve seen that it was garbage.

 

[johansen]

It’s been a while so I forget the details of the process but I was able to reproduce it myself at the time it first came up. I’m pretty sure I even posted the results here. But the “layers” were nonsensical and obviously an artifact of a botched import process, with stuff like individual letters spanning two or more layers that would never exist if it had been actually forged. Anybody who’d ever used photoshop could’ve seen that it was garbage.

and when the font is wrong, what do you explain that away with.

anyhow this is all a waste of time. please enjoy your 10% inflation this year and next.

 

[iluvatar5150]

and when the font is wrong, what do you explain that away with.

When what font is wrong?

 

[Tuur]

Trump had significantly more connection to it that just attacking Clinton for it like you claimed Donald Trump keeps pushing "birther" claims

Now, see, that's all you had to do. I was unaware of that. The important thing in your cite is in small letters right at the top: April 11, 2011. That's prior to the 2016 election, and puts it in a different light.

 

[Hans Blaster]

you have some personal problems.

I was pondering the meaning of life when i was 4 years old in the church nursery. i considered the toys we had to play with as useless.

I've never been in a church nursery, our church didn't have one.

ah, you're an atheist. lol. please go away.

No.

 

[GreatLakes4Ever]

Now, see, that's all you had to do. I was unaware of that. The important thing in your cite is in small letters right at the top: April 11, 2011. That's prior to the 2016 election, and puts it in a different light.

My first one was from 2012. Was that prior to the 2016 election?