The Witness of the Apostles Refutes Calvinism, Predestinationism

[drstevej]

If Christ can, in human power, submit His will to the Father, then so can we

and so can Buzz. He does it in Yorkie power not human power nor god-man power.

 

[sculleywr]

Good question, if you believe that we are elect or not elect, why would you try to change the minds of those not elect? What's the point of debating it?

 

[janxharris]

"Even though salvation has been provided for them, they have not accepted it." This is called "begging the question." You have stated as your conclusion what you are trying to prove. You first have to prove salvation has been "provided for them." Salvation is never spoken of as a mere provision. You have to read that into the Scriptures to get your "theology" to work for you. Faith doesn't make God's plan work. Faith merely receives the accomplished work of Christ. The Bible says, "He [Jesus] IS the propitiation for our sins. . . ." It doesn't say he is "potentially" the propitiation" These matters don't become reality because I believe them. I believe them because they are a reality. If God had satisfied his wrath for them in the sacrifice of his Son, that wrath could not come on them.

'Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved'.

 

[sculleywr]

and so can Buzz. He does it in Yorkie power not human power nor god-man power.

He does what his instincts tell him to do. That is not a will.

 

[drstevej]

Except that his will is based on instinct. It is not based on desire.

Right now he is desiring the popcorn I am eating. His desires effect his choices. He will come running from the backyard for food.

 

[sculleywr]

Right now he is desiring the popcorn I am eating. His desires effect his choices. He will come running from the backyard for food.

So will every dog. That is not desire. That is instinct. Food is food to an animal.

 

[drstevej]

We have four dogs and I assure you they are quite different. Brodeis will always come when you can, Buzz must be bribed.

BTW, define instinct and differentiate it from will.

 

[sculleywr]

There are some nasty posts on this thread which are quite shameful.

Why? We are supposed to be Christ-like are we not?

I find it strange how they get mad when we aren't convinced when by their teaching, we can't be convinced.

 

[drstevej]

Btw, I put up the popcorn five minutes ago and Buzz is still staring at me. The other three dogs are uninvolved.

 

[sculleywr]

We have four dogs and I assure you they are quite different. Brodeis will always come when you can, Buzz must be bribed.

BTW, define instinct and differentiate it from will.

Instinct is something that can be shaped and molded, but is hardwired from the genetics of an animal. Will is desire and intellect combined.

 

[drstevej]

Buzz is smarter than our other Yorkie (and they share a mom genetically) and he is quite willful. So is he human?

 

[sculleywr]

Btw, I put up the popcorn five minutes ago and Buzz is still staring at me. The other three dogs are uninvolved.

Let me guess. He's a puppy

 

[sculleywr]

Buzz is smarter than our other Yorkie (and they share a mom genetically) and he is quite willful. So is he human?

No. He is not intellectual.

 

[drstevej]

Let me guess. He's a puppy

Buzz is seven years old. The others are his age or older.

 

[drstevej]

No. He is not intellectual.

Define intellectual. He is smarter than most human 2 year olds. So is he more in the image of God than a toddler?

 

[sculleywr]

Buzz is seven years old. The others are his age or older.

Still younger. And intellectual involves the ability to learn and use complex thought and to adapt that knowledge to changing situations.

 

[drstevej]

Still younger. And intellectual involves the ability to learn and use complex thought and to adapt that knowledge to changing situations.

BTW your description makes Buzz an intellectual. He can get into a garbage can despite our attempts to make it a challenge. He is not good at trigonometry, however.

 

[Robert Pate]

It appears that this thread has gone to the dogs.

Time for a new one.

 

[drstevej]

It is still discussing theology. I'm just testing Sculley's thesis using dogs to see if he has a valid distinction re the image of God.

 

[sculleywr]

BTW your description makes Buzz an intellectual. He can get into a garbage can despite our attempts to make it a challenge. He is not good at trigonometry, however.

That is not based on taking known things to apply in abstract and new ways.