The Witness of the Apostles Refutes Calvinism, Predestinationism

[sculleywr]

not the way you think it does

God has free will. That is part of the image of God.

Therefore, man has free will. And please, do me the favor of telling me How God just doesn't give a rat's tail about those He sends to hell.

 

[janxharris]

How about this quote from Spurgeon, Autobiography, 2 Volumes, (Edinburgh: Banner of Truth Trust, 1962) 1:172:



Sounds quite Calvinistic to me.

He also said this:
"Our conformity to Christ is the sacred object of predestination."

 

[drstevej]

He also said this:
"Our conformity to Christ is the sacred object of predestination."

And that is not Calvinistic?

 

[drstevej]

God has free will. That is part of the image of God.

Declarations are not proof.

 

[janxharris]

If Jesus satisfied God's wrath for all of humanity, how is it that God's wrath is coming on the sons of disobedience?

"3 But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints.
4 Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving.
5 For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience." The text does not say God's wrath is coming on them for unbelief, but because of "These Things." i.e., sexual immorality, impurity, coveteousness etc. If Jesus satisfied God's wrath for all those sins, how then can God's wrath come on them? Still waiting for that text that describes Jesus' work as "POTENTIAL." Every place in my Bible his work is described it is spoken of as an accomplishment.

The Passover - Exodus 12 - the blood has to be applied.

 

[sculleywr]

Declarations are not proof.

Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. --the Our Father prayer in scripture.

Declarations are not proof. The scripture declare that the Father has a will. The Bible also declares that Christ has a human will, for when he prayed to the Father in the garden, He said "but nevertheless, not My will, but Thine be done."

As part of His human nature, Christ had a will separate from the Father.

 

[janxharris]

To answer your question, even though I suspect you are too obtuse to understand the answer, God rejoices when sinners repent because it is his desire that his creatures be like him in holiness. Since he is holy, he cannot but rejoice in holiness wherever he finds it. God's published desire is that sinners turn from sin. All day long he has stretched out his hands to a disobedient and gainsaying people. Why wouldn't he rejoice?

You will be reported if you continue.

 

[drstevej]

Now demonstrate that will is a part of the image of God in man. My Yorkie has a will too. Try to get him inside when the neighbor's dog is on the other side of the fence.

 

[sculleywr]

not the way you think it does no one is argueing that a man cant choose but i believe an unsaved person will always choose his poison . sure he can choose drugs or heavy booze or maybee never drugs or booze or he can be a theif but unless the Spirit of God regenerates that man the choices will always be tainted with sin heck even an animal has some free will you could put 2 bowels of food down he can either choose to eat out of one, or he can choose to eat out of the other one, or he could even walk away and choose none, but to say that dog could go into the house and bake a pie, well thats not in his nature to do so. its insulting to me and im sure others to say what we beleive makes us no different than a dog, if we could prove these things to you these debates would have stopped centurys ago

Just because you believe it doesn't make it true. The ability to change and adapt intellectually and mentally is part of human nature. And Christ illustrated that when He subjected His human will to the will of the Father.

 

[sculleywr]

Now demonstrate that will is a part of the image of God in man. My Yorkie has a will too. Try to get him inside when the neighbor's dog is on the other side of the fence.

Christ had a separate will from the Father. And yet He submitted it to the Father's will.

 

[drstevej]

Just because you believe it doesn't make it true.

Exactly my point in my post above.

 

[janxharris]

To answer your question, even though I suspect you are too obtuse to understand the answer, God rejoices when sinners repent because it is his desire that his creatures be like him in holiness. Since he is holy, he cannot but rejoice in holiness wherever he finds it. God's published desire is that sinners turn from sin. All day long he has stretched out his hands to a disobedient and gainsaying people. Why wouldn't he rejoice?

God would only rejoice when someone overcomes (something). If a man is unconditionally elected and the grace is irresistible what exactly has been overcome?

 

[reformed ttL]

God has free will. That is part of the image of God.

Therefore, man has free will. And please, do me the favor of telling me How God just doesn't give a rat's tail about those He sends to hell.

hows that no different than saying God is all knowing so man is as well or God can create life so can we since we were created in his image almosts sound word faith

 

[drstevej]

Christ had a separate will from the Father. And yet He submitted it to the Father's will.

True, but that does not prove your point, nor answer my question regarding the will of my Yorkie, Buzz.

 

[reformed ttL]

Just because you believe it doesn't make it true. The ability to change and adapt intellectually and mentally is part of human nature. And Christ illustrated that when He subjected His human will to the will of the Father.

SIGH OK IM DONE YOU GET THE LAST WORD NO WONDER THERE IS SILENCE FROM THE BRETHEREN, HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL

 

[janxharris]

There are some nasty posts on this thread which are quite shameful.

Why? We are supposed to be Christ-like are we not?

 

[sculleywr]

hows that no different than saying God is all knowing so man is as well or God can create life so can we since we were created in his image almosts sound word faith

No. Will is not an ability. It is a fact. Knowledge is not the same as will or desire. We weren't created with knowledge. We were created with will, and it's exhibited in the human will of Christ.

 

[sculleywr]

True, but that does not prove your point, nor answer my question regarding the will of my Yorkie, Buzz.

If Christ can, in human power, submit His will to the Father, then so can we

 

[drstevej]

My Yorkie, Buzz has a will too.

 

[sculleywr]

My Yorkie, Buzz has a will too.

Except that his will is based on instinct. It is not based on desire.