The Bible calls homosexual activity wrong, but . . .

[Maren]

Preschool teachers are not in danger of contracting AIDS, Kaposi's sacroma, and other loathsome diseases by virtue of being a preschool teacher.

And, as Beechy pointed out, there is no danger of contraction those diseases simply by virtue of being homosexual. Rather, just like heterosexuals, these diseases are contracted by having promiscuous, unprotected sex that substantially raises risks. A homosexual in a committed relationship is at no greater risk for an STD than you and your wife are.

Moreover, except for the neo-Pagans you mention above, people who like rib eye steak are not isolated from a relationship with God for the mere fact that they eat rib eye steak.

No, not rib eye, but according to Leviticus people who eat shrimp or ham are in danger of being isolated from a relationship with God merely for eating shrimp or ham.

If I see someone about to get in a car drunk, I'm going to STRONGLY encourage them not to.

Yes, but then again drunk driving is not only against the law but it is objectively dangerous, with numerous studies proving just how dangerous it is. There is no such evidence about homosexuality, in fact, the various major medical organizations tell us the opposite.

This is a moral obligation because, despite my blunt language, I care about you guys. I live an absolutely wonderful life in almost every respect, despite a few setbacks here and there, and I want all of you to live as my wife and I do.

Yet there are atheists that had miserable lives when they were Christians and, now that they have become atheists, have perfectly wonderful lives. Perhaps they should push atheism on you because they want you to know they happiness they do.

I know a person that doesn't like chocolate. Yet most of us really like chocolate, and since in many of us there is a physiological response that really does make us feel better, should we force this friend of mine to eat chocolate? Or do you see the ridiculousness of your claim that simply because something works in your life that it will necessarily work in everyone elses? If a person is not attracted to someone of the opposite sex, they can never find the same happiness in an opposite sex relationship as you and your wife.

 

[IzzyPop]

Ok, you're not getting my point either--the Slate article trashes the life expectancy study without giving us a better set of numbers with better data and methodologies...

So bad methodology and lies are better than saying we do not know?

 

[IzzyPop]

Preschool teachers are not in danger of contracting AIDS, Kaposi's sacroma, and other loathsome diseases by virtue of being a preschool teacher.

And yet you ignore lesbians, heterosexuals in Africa, and black women here in the US in favor of slamming homosexuals. Nice bit of compassion there.

Moreover, except for the neo-Pagans you mention above, people who like rib eye steak are not isolated from a relationship with God for the mere fact that they eat rib eye steak.

And this is based on your interpretation of a text.

If I see someone about to get in a car drunk, I'm going to STRONGLY encourage them not to. This is a moral obligation because, despite my blunt language, I care about you guys.

Bad analogy. Can you show the harm that a homosexual causes others?

I live an absolutely wonderful life in almost every respect, despite a few setbacks here and there, and I want all of you to live as my wife and I do.

I would rather eat ground glass.

 

[beechy]

Yes, but then again drunk driving is not only against the law but it is objectively dangerous, with numerous studies proving just how dangerous it is. There is no such evidence about homosexuality, in fact, the various major medical organizations tell us the opposite.

And in the case of drunk driving, society has decided that the danger of driving drunk outweighs the factors which would otherwise militate against such a proscription (i.e., the driver's freedom to drive where and when he wants to). Driving even when you're not drunk is quite dangerous (motor vehicle crashes were the leading cause of death for individuals from the ages of 3 through 33 in 2002), but society has decided that, generally speaking, its worth it to allow sober people the benefit of speedy convenient transportation.

And in any case, there is nothing dangerous about my sexual relationship with my partner of three years. So although True_Blue seems concerned that I may be having sex only once every 30 days (I'm not even going to go there), since she and I are perfectly happy, consenting adults there's no need or cause for him or anyone else to try and stop me from getting behind the wheel, as it were.

 

[Ramona]

I just found out a few minutes ago that my wife is pregnant with our third child. HURRAAAAAY! This is a joy that I hope all you lesbians get to experience with your male husband, and something I hope all you gays get to experience with your female wife.

You don't need a heterosexual marriage to raise a child.

That said, congratulations.

 

[Maren]

And in the case of drunk driving, society has decided that the danger of driving drunk outweighs the factors which would otherwise militate against such a proscription (i.e., the driver's freedom to drive where and when he wants to). Driving even when you're not drunk is quite dangerous (motor vehicle crashes were the leading cause of death for individuals from the ages of 3 through 33 in 2002), but society has decided that, generally speaking, its worth it to allow sober people the benefit of speedy convenient transportation.

And in any case, there is nothing dangerous about my sexual relationship with my partner of three years. So although True_Blue seems concerned that I may be having sex only once every 30 days (I'm not even going to go there), since she and I are perfectly happy, consenting adults there's no need or cause for him or anyone else to try and stop me from getting behind the wheel, as it were.

Yes, I find it ironic that on one hand we have True_Blue arguing that lesbians don't have enough sex while on the other we have several Christians trying to claim that homosexuality is nothing more than a sexual addiction.

 

[Ramona]

Yes, I find it ironic that on one hand we have True_Blue arguing that lesbians don't have enough sex while on the other we have several Christians trying to claim that homosexuality is nothing more than a sexual addiction.

Ya can't win either way. People are so determined to yell and scream about how evil it is, but how many of these people have actually done their homework outside of Paul Cameron "research," anyway?

 

[SiderealExalt]

I have an analytical methodology for determining whether something is right or wrong. But how do you determine right from wrong? That question is actually far more important than homosexuality, which the Bible only mentions a few times here and there. I'm very interested in your response.

I generally suspect that my capacity to designate things as right or wrong falls into the same set of factors as many other people. Well...some people. I don't believe in divinely inspired morality so I don't have a Godsaidit sort of morality.

I believe morality is partially the result of genetic survival imperatives. Though it would certainly be incomplete to say that is the entirety or even the majority of it. Personal experience, how I was raised, influences from others all factor into my ability to take my genetic imperatives and make judgement values.

The biggest mistakes I think some, not necessarily the religious only, make in the evaluation of morals is a failure to understand the difference between moral relativism, and the understanding that morality is relative. The rather large distinction is often lost. I know some people of a religious bent argue to me that if I don't think morality comes from an absolute source, that it leaves far too much up to interpretation and relative existences and makes morality cheap and loose.

I'd argue that believing in moral absolutism from a divine source cheapens morality, disguises subjective morals as unquestionable dictates.And that understanding the relative nature of morality along with out capacity as human beings to relate to each other and find moral common ground should impart in us a commitment to moral responsibility, because ultimately WE control our destiny in the matter or society,ethics, and morals.

 

[SiderealExalt]

Ya can't win either way. People are so determined to yell and scream about how evil it is, but how many of these people have actually done their homework outside of Paul Cameron "research," anyway?

The thing that bothers me the most on the religious argument against homosexuals is the relatively accepted and cavalier way in which normally polite, adjusted people, reduce others to a subhuman level. And, if others find objection to such attitudes, the response is often that if you accept homosexuals that means you are a person of loose, weak morals unwilling to take a stand on moral arguments.

 

[BigBadWlf]

Dude, you're completely missing my point. My point is that no university has gone out and made a credible study of homosexual life expectancies. Why not? Could it be that people are afraid of what the studies will reveal about homosexuality?

There is no need for such a “study”. The information about life expectancy for everyone…including gays and lesbians are available on what are called actuary tables. What they show is that gays and lesbians have a life expectancy no different from their peers in their racial and socioeconomic groups.

The Cameron “study” is a well known fraud and is used by hate groups around the world to help promote discrimination and bigotry.

What Cameron did was much like what some “scientists” in centuries past did in regard to “proving” that whites were superior to other races. One scientist “proved” that whites where superior by measuring the volume of skulls from various races. He used buckwheat hulls to measure volume and would compress the hulls in the skulls of whites to make them appear larger but would not do so with black skulls and when he came across a black skull that held a larger volume of hulls than the average white skull he labeled the skull ‘deformed’ his paper includes a notation about how many blacks have deformed skulls…more proof of the inferiority.

 

[beechy]

Yes, I find it ironic that on one hand we have True_Blue arguing that lesbians don't have enough sex while on the other we have several Christians trying to claim that homosexuality is nothing more than a sexual addiction.

And the irony gets even thicker when you note that the poster who introduced the "homosexuality is a sexual addiction" concept in this thread is none other than True_Blue himself.

 

[SiderealExalt]

Obviously when they're not having sex..all they think about is wanting to have sex. So their addicts.

/sarcasm.

 

[beechy]

Obviously when they're not having sex..all they think about is wanting to have sex. So their addicts.

/sarcasm.

Of course. /additional sarcasm/

 

[GrayCat]

and I want all of you to live as my wife and I do.

It takes quite a fair amount of both arrogance and ignorance to make a statement such as that.


I do not know if i can accept the possibility that you truly do not believe there are any other possible ways for someone to be happy besides being in your exact identical situation.


Having to accept that you really do believe that would mean having to lose a quite a bit of my faith in humanity to adhere to basic concepts such as freedom and respect.

 

[Ave Maria]

Leviticus also says not to wear clothing of mixed fabric and not to eat lobster. Should we also obey those archaic laws?

 

[True_Blue]

There is no need for such a “study”. The information about life expectancy for everyone…including gays and lesbians are available on what are called actuary tables. What they show is that gays and lesbians have a life expectancy no different from their peers in their racial and socioeconomic groups.
.[/FONT]

Would you mind posting a link to an actuary table created by a life insurance company listing life expectancies for gays and lesbians? As it happens, I believe such actuary tables are the absolute best source of information because insurance companies rely on highly accurate data to make a profit. The profit motive is very powerful. I would be deeply impressed if you could provide me with a gay actuary table because 1) it might prove me wrong, and 2) the table would be powerful evidence of illegality (violates discrimination laws of about half the states). The rationale is that if an insurance company went around asking people about whether they were gay or lesbian, gays and lesbians would either be denied coverage outright, or they would be charged much higher rates. So I would be surprised if you posted an up-to-date gay actuary table (more up-to-date table would be better because of improved HIV treatments).

 

[True_Blue]

Leviticus also says not to wear clothing of mixed fabric and not to eat lobster. Should we also obey those archaic laws?

Those particular cultural laws were written for the Jewish people to differentiate them from gentiles, and those laws don't apply to us. They will apply to Jewish people to this day. That's why there's so many kosher restaurants and foods all over the place.

 

[True_Blue]

It takes quite a fair amount of both arrogance and ignorance to make a statement such as that.

I do not know if i can accept the possibility that you truly do not believe there are any other possible ways for someone to be happy besides being in your exact identical situation.

Having to accept that you really do believe that would mean having to lose a quite a bit of my faith in humanity to adhere to basic concepts such as freedom and respect.

If you consult the great philosophers, you'll almost never see "happiness" and "freedom", listed as virtues. Self-sacrificial love is the greatest virtue. Homosexuality is ultimately all about self-gratification. One's eyes become focused on sexual [or romantic] pleasure, not on pleasing God.

 

[True_Blue]

And the irony gets even thicker when you note that the poster who introduced the "homosexuality is a sexual addiction" concept in this thread is none other than True_Blue himself.

One can be addicted to drugs and still only shoot up once a month.

 

[True_Blue]

If a person is not attracted to someone of the opposite sex, they can never find the same happiness in an opposite sex relationship as you and your wife.

I think some homosexuals give up too easy. A gay or lesbian person can be redeemed from the orientation itself. I'm struggling with a inappropriate contentography addiction, which I'm sure is very similar. There are counselors out there, and of course I recommend Christian counselors, not the shrinks who like to electrocute people, for example. I probably should go see a counselor, but I'm a fairly stubborn and self-reliant person, so I haven't been taking my own advice. Still, if you're determined, you can be very hopeful that you can find your thoughts restored. I'm confident that I will break my inappropriate contentography habit. By no means is it impossible, but it won't be easy. Christian Forums has an addiction and recovery section, but I know little about it.