the Apostle Paul kept the Torah!

[weathered]

Yup, sometimes we want to be careful, other times Jesus was a stumbling block.

What do you mean?

 

[weathered]

Actually it was about food also. Unless you think God told Peter to "kill and eat" people.

Acts 10:12-13 (NASB)
12 and there were in it all kinds of four-footed animals and crawling creatures of the earth and birds of the air. 13 A voice came to him, "Get up, Peter, kill and eat!"

I always thought it was twofold as well. Maybe im speculating here but many things seem to be twofold, but im not sure.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Thanks, but I read it differently I see Paul as approving of eating meat sacrificed to idols, because idols, to him, have no power, and so the heathen are sacrificing to nothing.
For Paul, as long as you don't cause a weaker brother to stumble, you can freely eat those meats. That's what I understand Paul to say.

Jesus mentions the 4th assembly of Thyatira of doing that...interesting

Revelation 2:20 `But I have against thee a few things:
That thou dost suffer the woman Jezebel, who is calling herself a prophetess, to teach, and to lead astray, my servants to commit whoredom, and idol-sacrifices to eat;

Kindgdom Bible Studies Revelation Series

There is one name in the Bible that no parents would think to give to their daughter, and that name is Jezebel.
The name Jezebel sweeps across the pages of the Bible. The typical Jezebel of the Old Testament was the daughter of Ethbaal, king of Tyre and Sidon. The name Ethbaal means “with Baal.” Prior to becoming king, Ethbaal was a priest to the goddess Astarte, also known as Ashtoreth or Ishtar. This was the goddess of sensual love and sex. From her childhood Jezebel was steeped in false religion and government. Jezebel grew up in an atmosphere of position, power, and prestige. She drank deeply of all the arts of political cunning and intrigue.

The name Jezebel means “Baal exulted,” and also indicates one who is “unchaste and unhusbanded.” In other words it denotes one who is lewd, sexually impure, and defiled. Jezebel’s name not only reveals her character, but is also a prophecy of her life! She was so infamous for her wicked wantonness, immorality, and treachery, that lewd women down through the centuries have been dubbed “Jezebel”. These women always display the spirit of Jezebel!

 

[tzadik]

Actually it was about food also. Unless you think God told Peter to "kill and eat" people.

Acts 10:12-13 (NASB)
12 and there were in it all kinds of four-footed animals and crawling creatures of the earth and birds of the air. 13 A voice came to him, "Get up, Peter, kill and eat!"

Question.
Did he kill and eat unclean foods?

 

[Frogster]

Question.
Did he kill and eat unclean foods?

please..

by the way, u talked about our english bibles, so when r u going to tell us what paul meant in 4;12, i became as you?

 

[Frogster]

Vincent's Word Studies

Be as I am (γίνεσθε ὡς ἐγω&#769

Better, become as I am; free from the bondage of Jewish ordinances.

I am as ye are (κἀγὼ ὡς ἐγω&#769

Rather, I became. Supply ἐγενόμην or γέγονα. Become as I am, for I became a Gentile like you. Comp. Philippians 3:7, Philippians 3:8. For the phrase γινέσθαι ὡς to become as, see Matthew 6:16; Romans 9:29; 1 Corinthians 4:13; 1 Corinthians 9:20-22.

 

[Frogster]

People's New Testament

4:12 Brethren, I beseech you, be as I am. Literally, Become as I am. Come to my ground.

For I am as ye are. Rather, I become as ye are. I gave up my bondage to Judaism, the religion of my fathers, and made myself as a Gentile to Gentiles.

Ye have not injured me at all. My complaint against you is not on personal grounds. You have not wronged me.

 

[Frogster]

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary

12. be as I am-"As I have in my life among you cast off Jewish habits, so do ye; for I am become as ye are," namely, in the non-observance of legal ordinances. "The fact of my laying them aside among Gentiles, shows that I regard them as not at all contributing to justification or sanctification. Do you regard them in the same light, and act accordingly." His observing the law among the Jews was not inconsistent with this, for he did so only in order to win them, without compromising principle. On the other hand, the Galatian Gentiles, by adopting legal ordinances, showed that they regarded them as needful for salvation. This Paul combats.

 

[Standing Up]

Question.
Did he kill and eat unclean foods?

The verse says all kinds ...

 

[tzadik]

The verse says all kinds ...

...
is there any verse in the Bible that tells us that Peter, or any other "NT believer" ATE an unclean food?

--without any assumptions or speculations...

 

[Standing Up]

...
is there any verse in the Bible that tells us that Peter, or any other "NT believer" ATE an unclean food?

--without any assumptions or speculations...

I'll help you out, kind of.

Paul was accused of teaching apostasy from the Mosaic Law in Acts 21.

" And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise [their] children, neither to walk after the customs. "

What did Paul do? Obeyed the Law.

" Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them. "

What happened?

" Crying out, Men of Israel, help: This is the man, that teacheth all [men] every where against the people, and the law, and this place: and further brought Greeks also into the temple, and hath polluted this holy place. "

Paul explained himself.

" But Paul said, I am a man [which am] a Jew of Tarsus, [a city] in Cilicia, a citizen of no mean city: and, I beseech thee, suffer me to speak unto the people. "

Everything was okay until,

" And he said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles.
And they gave him audience unto this word, and [then] lifted up their voices, and said, Away with such a [fellow] from the earth: for it is not fit that he should live. "

So, what was the REAL ISSUE Paul showed? It's not food and drink. If your conscience says eat pork, go for it. If it doesn't, then don't. Be polite; act in love. The IMPORTANT thing is we are one Body. We're no longer Jew or Gentile. It is OKAY to kill/eat with Gentiles. IOW, don't, like Peter, eat with Gentiles, and then pull back from outside the Body condemnation.

 

[Frogster]

...
is there any verse in the Bible that tells us that Peter, or any other "NT believer" ATE an unclean food?

--without any assumptions or speculations...

my oh my..if peter went to the house of cornelius, the gentile, and was rude, and did not eat his food, that would declare him unclean, and that is just what the enmity was, that paul talked about in eph 2;15.

peter was judaizing in 2;14, that meant by actions and words, he was rebuilding what Paul said was torn down in 2;18.

 

[tzadik]

I'll help you out, kind of.

Paul was accused of teaching apostasy from the Mosaic Law in Acts 21.

" And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise [their] children, neither to walk after the customs. "
What did Paul do? Obeyed the Law.

" Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them. "

What happened?

" Crying out, Men of Israel, help: This is the man, that teacheth all [men] every where against the people, and the law, and this place: and further brought Greeks also into the temple, and hath polluted this holy place. "

Paul explained himself.

" But Paul said, I am a man [which am] a Jew of Tarsus, [a city] in Cilicia, a citizen of no mean city: and, I beseech thee, suffer me to speak unto the people. "

Everything was okay until,

" And he said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles.
And they gave him audience unto this word, and [then] lifted up their voices, and said, Away with such a [fellow] from the earth: for it is not fit that he should live. "

So, what was the REAL ISSUE Paul showed? It's not food and drink. If your conscience says eat pork, go for it. If it doesn't, then don't. Be polite; act in love. The IMPORTANT thing is we are one Body. We're no longer Jew or Gentile. It is OKAY to kill/eat with Gentiles. IOW, don't, like Peter, eat with Gentiles, and then pull back from outside the Body condemnation.

Pretty words.
One major flaw in your entire argument; you’re assuming that the accusations were “true accusations”.
All of the accusations launched against Paul, just like they were launched against Stephen, and again like they were launched against Messiah were false accusations.

Messiah did not speak against the Temple. Yet they accused him of doing just that (Matthew 26)
Stephen did not speak against the holy place or the Law. Yet they accused him of doing just that. (Acts 6:13)
Paul did not teach anyone to break the Torah of God, that he himself practiced. Yet they accused him of doing just that. (Acts 21)

Remember Paul, a couple of chapters later confesses, according to those of “The Way” that he believes EVERYTHING that is in accordance to the Law and the prophets. The accusations were OBVIOUSLY false accusations. Paul didn’t “keep the law” in Acts 21:24 as a chameleon; he was simply following the Torah of fulfilling a Nazarite vow that he started in Acts 18:18 according to Numbers 6!

So in actuality all of your writing had nothing to do with the issue at hand. Paul NEVER spoke contrary to God’s Instructions in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14. These instructions were given to God’s people, ad kept & obeyed by all those who belonged in the household of God!

Like I said, there is ZERO mention throughout the Scriptures of any True believer eating unclean foods.

 

[Frogster]

Pretty words.
One major flaw in your entire argument; you’re assuming that the accusations were “true accusations”.
All of the accusations launched against Paul, just like they were launched against Stephen, and again like they were launched against Messiah were false accusations.

Messiah did not speak against the Temple. Yet they accused him of doing just that (Matthew 26)
Stephen did not speak against the holy place or the Law. Yet they accused him of doing just that. (Acts 6:13)
Paul did not teach anyone to break the Torah of God, that he himself practiced. Yet they accused him of doing just that. (Acts 21)

Remember Paul, a couple of chapters later confesses, according to those of “The Way” that he believes EVERYTHING that is in accordance to the Law and the prophets. The accusations were OBVIOUSLY false accusations. Paul didn’t “keep the law” in Acts 21:24 as a chameleon; he was simply following the Torah of fulfilling a Nazarite vow that he started in Acts 18:18 according to Numbers 6!

So in actuality all of your writing had nothing to do with the issue at hand. Paul NEVER spoke contrary to God’s Instructions in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14. These instructions were given to God’s people, ad kept & obeyed by all those who belonged in the household of God!

Like I said, there is ZERO mention throughout the Scriptures of any True believer eating unclean foods.

so did the converted roman jailer in acts 16, in philippi, where there were no jewish butchers, hardly any jews to have a jewish butcher shop, serve Paul bean sprouts?


u r totally ignoring the obvious implications of act 10-11.


ok, u r right,. ...yup...peter went to the house of Cornelius, and said, sorry, i can't eat your food, it will make me unclean, so that means your unclean.

 

[Frogster]

Pretty words.
One major flaw in your entire argument; you’re assuming that the accusations were “true accusations”.
All of the accusations launched against Paul, just like they were launched against Stephen, and again like they were launched against Messiah were false accusations.

Messiah did not speak against the Temple. Yet they accused him of doing just that (Matthew 26)
Stephen did not speak against the holy place or the Law. Yet they accused him of doing just that. (Acts 6:13)
Paul did not teach anyone to break the Torah of God, that he himself practiced. Yet they accused him of doing just that. (Acts 21)

Remember Paul, a couple of chapters later confesses, according to those of “The Way” that he believes EVERYTHING that is in accordance to the Law and the prophets. The accusations were OBVIOUSLY false accusations. Paul didn’t “keep the law” in Acts 21:24 as a chameleon; he was simply following the Torah of fulfilling a Nazarite vow that he started in Acts 18:18 according to Numbers 6!

So in actuality all of your writing had nothing to do with the issue at hand. Paul NEVER spoke contrary to God’s Instructions in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14. These instructions were given to God’s people, ad kept & obeyed by all those who belonged in the household of God!

Like I said, there is ZERO mention throughout the Scriptures of any True believer eating unclean foods.

U may want to read acts 15, it was the GOSPEL that peter was bringing to the gentiles, talked about right in acts 15, it was about grace, not moses, all while peter talked about how he brought the GOSPEL to them in acts 10.

DO U REALIZE THE IMPLICATIONS OF WHAT U R SAYING, THAT WOULD OVERTHROW THE WHOLE GOSPEL POINT, IF U R RIGHT!

JEW GENTILE DIVISIONS FOREVER, BECAUSE OF MOSAIC FOOD RESTRICTIONS.

 

[parsonsmom]

What do you mean?

========================================================

Shalom weathered;
You seem very truthful; wanting to learn more of the Word; I say of the Word; because about the word is not the correct way to approach.
I don't want to Impose anything on you; but will share with you. My teacher is the Holy Spirit; and I dont use my own Ideas.

Romans 8:
God has done what the Law could not do; its power being weakened by the flesh; the entire nature of man without the Holy Spirit. Sending His own Son in the guise of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin; so God condemned sin in the flesh; subdued; overcame; deprived it of its power over all who accept that sacrifice; So that the righteous and just requirement of the Law might be fully met in us who live and move not in the ways of the flesh; but in the ways of the Spirit ;our lives governed not by the standards and according to the dictates of the flesh; but controlled by the Holy Spirit; For those who are according to the flesh and are controlled by its unholy desires; set their minds on and [d]pursue those things which gratify the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit and are controlled by the desires of the Spirit set their minds on and seek those things which gratify the [
Holy Spirit.
Romans8:6...
The mind of the flesh; which is sense and reason without the Holy Spirit is death; death that all the miseries arising from sin; both here and hereafter; But the mind of the Holy Spirit; that dewells within us after we are bornagin; is life and soul; peace both now and forever;
That is because the mind of the flesh; with its carnal thoughts and purposes; is hostile to God; for it does not submit itself to God's Law; indeed it cannot; So then those who are living the life of the flesh; catering to the appetites and impulses of their carnal nature; cannot please or satisfy God, or be acceptable to Him. But you are not living the life of the flesh; you are living the life of the Spirit; if the Holy Spirit of God; really dwells within you; directs and controls you; But if you does not possess the Holy Spirit of Christ you are none of your own; you do not belong to Christ, is not truly a child of God. when you accept Jesus for your personal Savior;His Spirit comes to dewell in your spirit; and is sealed to redempion; now your spirit is Saved or Bornagain; but your soul is still geered to the world; or carnal; so we must renew our minds to the written Word; Or John1:1 Jesus Christ;The Annointed One.
Respectfully; Parsonsmom

 

[Frogster]

if when peter went to the house of cornelius in acts 10, and upheld mosaic food restrictions, he could not have said what he said about the gospel in acts 15, or the whole argument would fail, peter used that event in acts 10, to say no mosaic law for the church in 15, just like 10.

it was the same basic thing in both events, moses is not the gospel.

peter and paul, had the same gospel.

 

[Fireinfolding]

You know, when looking at the Pharisees, the two things I see them getting offended over (with Jesus) was in respects to the sabbath (for he keepeth not the sabbath as they felt he should) and Jesus pointing out its not what goes into ones mouth as that which defileth a man but what comes out.

Issue one with the Pharisees

Mat 15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

Mat 15:12 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?

Issue two with the Pharisees...

John 9:16 Therefore said some of the Pharisees, This man is not of God, because he keepeth not the sabbath day.

Acts 2:24 And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?


John 5:10 The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed.

John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

So two issues, what goes into the mouth (verses out of it) and the keeping of the sabbath day

These were the two big issues they had with Jesus Himself

Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light

(just kidding)

I just thought that was an appropriate addition there (lol)

 

[Fireinfolding]

Heres another thing I found sorta cute but I had overlooked it

After Jesus heals someone on the sabbath, it says...

John 5:16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.



You gotta love Jesus choice of words here (knowing it is the sabbath) to them, he says...

John 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. (I so missed that lol)

Therefore....

John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

And yet Jesus said (in the healing of others) said, My Father "worketh" hitherto and "I work", and he chose those words to them who were getting all huffy about working on the sabbath, but yet he did say "work" (and on the sabbath day) making them even more indigant

So Jesus on the sabbath day choses these words to answer them with


John 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work

So Jesus (who healed) said, I work (in the doing of the same)

Luke 13:14 And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day.

I never noticed that before, but I find that very interesting

 

[dollarsbill]

Question.
Did he kill and eat unclean foods?

God told Peter to do so. Was God wrong?